Q: Warranty At 800Mhz?

[Zarradeth]

I generally just lurk but- am I the only one who remembers this quote?

I've tested the OMAP+RAM (as it's stuck on the top) temperatures today using a non-contact temperature sensing gun.

@ 550Mhz (standard board frequency from 1.0 Kernel), after 2 hours I get 31c (88f)
@ 925Mhz (plus vdd1 opp value of 5) after a further 2 hours I get 32c (90f)

I then measured the temperature of my cup of tea... 88c (191f)

I know it's old, but the temperatures at which a processor run at aren't going to change over time anyways.

@mali, I'm not an expert on the topic, but I do think you aren't 100% correct. While in your experience with ARM processors they have heat issues, it seems the Cortex-A8 that the Pandora uses doesn't. If it did we wouldn't be seeing all of the dev units being able to stably clock to 900 MHz without over heating. If you meant that all ARMs don't have any heat issues, than I can see where you are coming from. But with how I read it (and probably Craigix)- you came across sounding like the Pandora's process, and all ARM processors, will have heat issues- just because your netbook did. It is true that increasing the voltage on a processor is going to increase the temperature (and shorten the lifespan), but the OP isn't worried about trying to pull anything like 1.1 GHz outta the Pandora's processor. He's just wondering if overclocking to 800 MHz, which has so far proven to be safe and working, would void the warranty. To be honest, is it even possible to change the voltage on the Pandora's CPU? Craigix said it would take a hardware mod (which for sure would void your warranty), to get the voltage into dangerous area's, I don't really think it's possible to kick the voltage up high enough on the Pandora's processor anyways.

And I'm not siding with either Craigix or Mali, as I feel Mali wasn't 100% correct, but I definitely feel Craigix was out of line- though I can sorta understand why he is angry.

 

[WhiteBat]

So if overclocking does void the warranty... then why the OS provides the tools to do so? :huh:

Who said/confirmed that?

Here are the current issues still to fix:

* Some permissions need to be fixed (so a normal user can change maximum clock speed, etc.). Nothing spectacular

http://www.open-pandora.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=151%3Apreparations-for-the-near-future&catid=2%3Ablog&Itemid=2&lang=en

 

[WhiteBat]

Now with more hacker points to void your warranty even faster.

 

[Chest Rockwell]

So if overclocking does void the warranty... then why the OS provides the tools to do so? :huh:

Who said/confirmed that?

Here are the current issues still to fix:

* Some permissions need to be fixed (so a normal user can change maximum clock speed, etc.). Nothing spectacular

http://www.open-pandora.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=151%3Apreparations-for-the-near-future&catid=2%3Ablog&Itemid=2&lang=en

The first part was bolded for a reason- He wasn't asking for proof the OS would provide tools.

 

[WhiteBat]

The first part was bolded for a reason- He wasn't asking for proof the OS would provide tools.

oops, oh well life goes on

 

[borgqueenx]

yes im also a bit blown away by the post of craig. at least make it look sarcastic with some kind of picture.
I really have the feeling craig was serious at Mali.

Mali, pm craig, maby a good idea.

 

[Kyo]

Sorry mali, I didn't mean to white knight you. It's not about you, it's about Craig.

Ich weiß, lass es uns einfach vergessen. Unter'm Strich bringt es sowieso nichts und zieht nur die Stimmung runter. Ich verstehe, dass Du sauer bist, aber das Projekt bleibt genial und unterstützenswert

Naja, Ich würde da zwischen dem Projekt und dem Pandora selbst differenzieren. Das Projekt ist für mich mehr der Weg als das Ziel
Ich finds einfach unmöglich das Craig sich erst weigert die Frage mit etwas anderem als "es wird nicht passieren" beantwortet, und dann so'n scheiss zieht. Das ist nur die Krone dieser ganzen Baumhausmentalität die er hat. Nur haben einige von uns da halt geld reingesteckt, deswegen finde ich es unmöglich wie er meint, es sich erlauben zu können sich zu verhalten.

 

[skeezix]

Overclocking is in the default menu right now (works I think) and it pops up a warning when trying to set it high. Hopefullythat is sufficient

jeffphone

 

[mali]

@Zarradeth
Actually, I didn't want to get involved in this thread that much at all. I just wanted to see the question of the OP being recognized instead of the thread being forced in a direction that the OP totally didn't intend. We get giant bloated discussions about nothing because a simple "yes", "no", "don't know" isn't provided. _If_ the boss himself posts in a thread, it's reasonable to expect an on topic answer instead of off topic nonsense, imo.
All I'm trying to do is help to keep the project on track, and this includes foremost keeping the community informed. If I piss someone off I pretty much don't care, because in retrospective I didn't act offensive at all.

@Kyosys
Ich bin voll bei Dir und werde versuchen meinen Beitrag zu leisten

@Jeff
Thank you for your precise answer

 

[laurencevde]

WhiteBat, You misread EvilDragon. He wasn't talking about overclocking, he was talking about ("file"system-)permissions in the OS, so a normal user's account can change the max clock the chip runs at (f.ex: light use: low max clock; game: as high as needed/possible.) without needing to become root.

Anyways, AFAICT, the normal max clock of the OMAPs aren't because of overheating (the total chip uses MAX +- 1Watt of power if I'm not mistaken. That's easily cooled...), but mainly for battery-drain and stability. A battery that's drained too fast can get hot... (And Pandora's battery has far more capacity than any other "similar" device, so can handle far more before giving problems...).
The chip got designed for a particular max current draw, and overclocking might exceed that. This should cause the current regulator to cut off power...

 

[Zarradeth]

@Mali

Fair enough, as I said, I lurk a lot, and you do an awesome job with keeping people informed. I have a lot of respect for you and you are a very nice person. I just feel that the source for your information this time wasn't from the correct place, that is why I got that quote from Squidge (originally posted by Chip)- who ran those tests on the Pandora itself. And again, I don't agree with how Craigix acted, and I also agree that he didn't really provide a definitive answer to the question. Though I respect your wishes and won't bother you anymore with this

 

[mali]

Thank you Zarradeth I didn't want to rant in your direction, I just took the chance to make a point, that's all

 

[MDave]

I've tested the OMAP+RAM (as it's stuck on the top) temperatures today using a non-contact temperature sensing gun.

@ 550Mhz (standard board frequency from 1.0 Kernel), after 2 hours I get 31c (88f)
@ 925Mhz (plus vdd1 opp value of 5) after a further 2 hours I get 32c (90f)

I then measured the temperature of my cup of tea... 88c (191f)

I know it's old, but the temperatures at which a processor run at aren't going to change over time anyways.
[/quote]

Awesome, thanks for finding that quote I highly doubt the chips have changed since 2008.

I KNEW I heard it didn't get exceedingly hot, I think it was a post by MWeston.

 

[mali]

I really appreciate that quote, but keep in mind that it was measured on a devboard and not inside an enclosure the assembled Pandora represents
Just saying

 

[BackAssward]

Ok, for one second, let's look at Craigix's post objectively. To go into a thread where a manufacturer has already posted, and to say that not only have you in the past done things you shouldn't have, didn't take responsibility for your actions, lied about it in order to stick the manufacturer with the cost of your actions... isn't the brightest thing. To tell others to do it since the manufacturer can't tell, is less forward thinking. Especially if this is a small time manufacturer already loosing money on their first order. Let's say for a moment, they were making money, say 10% profit on each unit... that means they'd have to sell ten more units just to make up for someone's fuck-up and dishonesty. Now a big company like Asus, that might be a drop in a barrel, but this is not a baig company, and they *already* are not making money.

If someone is willing to do somethng non-standard, break it, and get a replacement... what stops them at overlocking? Maybe they open it up and static fry it, or touch the 'do not touch' part, or drop it in water, etc. The point is, once you admit to have broken a device in the past, lied about it, got a replacement, and stuck the manufacturer with the bill... and that you will do it again if it happens again (and tell others they can too), you pretty much boned yourself. Especially if the Manufacturer not only is active in the forum, but the friggen thread itself where you admit you would willing screw them over if you broke your device.

As for, why is the option there if it isn't warranty covered? Same reason hack points are there? Or why x86's can overclock but it isn't under warrenty there either? It's because everyone would whine if it wasn't "open" enough for you to do these things. It was always been said they are non-standard and use at your own risk. Again, it's not that overclocking would fry your device, it's that doing something non-standard might... so don't admit that you'd willing break it, lie about it to get a replacement, right in front of the manufacturer's face (and tell others they can do the same, it's easy). That's just either ignorant, or flippant.

 

[Squidge]

Ok, so how about we have a built in overclocking utility that lets you select the speed you want (and OPP level), but if put either outside of spec, it pops up a warning box notifying you that doing so will void your warranty (and of course will log the overclocking request to some super secret flash built into the omap so any repair requests can tell that the device has been overclocked...)

OK?

(BTW, Don't NVidia have overclocking options built-in to there GPU drivers?)

 

[Chest Rockwell]

As for, why is the option there if it isn't warranty covered? Same reason hack points are there? Or why x86's can overclock but it isn't under warrenty there either? It's because everyone would whine if it wasn't "open" enough for you to do these things.

The difference is, on x86's they advertise at their base clock. A 3 GHz processor is advertised as a 3 GHz processor and not 3.5 because it can overclock to that. On pandora, it's not the same- they've used overclocking to demonstrate emulators in many videos, talked about it as one of the features, etc. I don't care if they don't cover overclocking under warranty, but when you do that you lose the ability to market it with the benefits of overclocking.

 

[notaz]

All of this "it's not an x86 chip blah blah" stuff seems totally pointless to me because I've NEVER heard of someone frying an x86 from overclocking either.

I've fried my Athlon XP2000+, I ran it overclocked to 2GHz (from default 1.6GHz) for something like a year, and one day it would just not boot. I had it slightly overvoltaged from what I remember.

 

[BackAssward]

As for, why is the option there if it isn't warranty covered? Same reason hack points are there? Or why x86's can overclock but it isn't under warrenty there either? It's because everyone would whine if it wasn't "open" enough for you to do these things.

The difference is, on x86's they advertise at their base clock. A 3 GHz processor is advertised as a 3 GHz processor and not 3.5 because it can overclock to that. On pandora, it's not the same- they've used overclocking to demonstrate emulators in many videos, talked about it as one of the features, etc. I don't care if they don't cover overclocking under warranty, but when you do that you lose the ability to market it with the benefits of overclocking.

Last I checked, all their marketing and news material clocked it at 600MHz. Only on this informal board not related to OP do some developers talk about having overclocked... much like you might find on a forum about any hardware; it has always be presented as non-standard. Overclocking in general doesn't void warranty... overclocking and frying your chip just isn't covered under warranty. It's the same with the solder pads if you want. using them doesn't void warranty... using them and frying your Pandora does. You could ask your question about the pads, they are as much 'marketing' material as overclocking has been (in that, they are also not in any official marketing material, just talked about here).

 

[Poem58]

Wow, this thread blew up!

I think the OP just wanted an assurance that if we overclock and something happens they are still under warranty. Maybe because of the recent post where someone put DOSBOX to 900 Mhz to try a game. So would it be safe to just say this:

Overclocking within reason should not be significant enough to cause harm as the design is pretty tolerant to minor overclocking. Under normal usage or minor overclocking the Processor dies within the first year, that would be a standard warranty replacement. if you decide to install some sort of liquid nitrogen cooling system and see if you can get your Pandora to a record breaking 2GHZ, then be an honest person and don't even try to claim warranty repairs.

We all know what is right and wrong, we know if we try to set everything to the max and we break it, much like driving 120MPH in a car and wrecking it, not likely the insurance guy is gonna wanna give you anything for your stupidity.

If everyone is running MupenPlus at 800Mhz and you do too, and it dies in 6 months. Well, that shouldn't have happened.

Maybe though if possible, a file should be written to NAND in case of an extreme overclock, just to prevent the unscrupulous and keep any suspicions to a minimum.

Else, we are on the honor system, and what good is it to get your Pandora replaced, if it costs you your soul?