Preparing for Germany (2011-08-26)

[Timstertoo]

Don´t forget it´s highly possible that these first units won´t come before 2012...

They most probably won't. It takes a lot of time to setup the production, make a test run with 10 - 20 boards to see that everything works and then start with full production.


Also, parts need to be ordered, some have a leadtime of a few months (often you're lucky and get them faster than estimated, but you can't be sure of that) and I need to fund the money to start with the production as well!


That's what I'm concentrating on most right now, that's for sure!


So I don't think a new CPU end of the year would be unfair to anyone. But it would get new users to the system, which would lead to increasing interest from developers and ALL Pandoras would benefit from that.

I'd have no problems with waiting up to 6 months longer for the newer board and I guestimate that the new company will be pumping them out well before cc is done, especially if they invest in opt.

 

[Delirius]

pro upgrade:


- people who ordered pandora will get what they paid for or slightly better ones.


only jealous people will protest. (Are they heart of community?)


- if newer processor is more available it is another reason to upgrade hardware.


- modernize to stay competitive.

 

[Caine]

Like I have mentioned in the other thread, I am a proponent of releasing the fixed hardware specs for the Pandora, even beyond the scope that is being discussed here. That said, it's not like we are switching from a Cortex A8 to a Cortex A9. Yes, the newer units would have a bit of extra power, but not that significantly more than an overclocked old one.


The current Pandora hardware is dated. If you buy a new mobile phone (i.e. smarthphone) now then you have a more powerful processor. If the team can increase the Pandora specs without increase in price then it would be stupid from a business point of view not to do so. It will sell more units if upgraded.


Now, I know it's easy for me to talk. I have been lucky enough to enjoy my Pandora since January and I can easily afford a second unit. In my opinion, it is fair to those who have waited so much longer that they will have a more powerful unit. It is the ones who still will receive an older unit who will be bothered the most by this.


I think that increasing the user base and attracting more developers will ultimately be of benefit to even the owners of old consoles due to an increase in software. Some of this software might run a bit worse on older units, but the older ones can overclock quite high and I don't expect there to be a huge performance difference for most software.


Go for it ED!

 

[Trip]

I haven't got mine yet and even if I didn't get one with an updated board after waiting all this time it wouldn't really bother me. The original board would still do everything that I paid for it to do so I don't see why updated components shouldn't be used. As long as it's a fully compatible drop in replacement anyway


I know some people always want the latest and greatest though so there would probably need to be an upgrade option for original customers.


EDIT: Please, please get peoples new Pandoras shipped out before upgrading old ones though, otherwise the queue will never go down

 

[Lafazar]

ED, I'm willing to invest in you or give you an almost interest-free loan (just compensation for inflation). PM me if you are interested.


Personally I'm in favor of using the better processors. It does not make sense to artificially limit the Pandora's power. Of course it sucks for the people who already have one (I'm one of them myself), but those who don't have one already had to wait a really long time by now, so I think it's justified if they get a better processor.


And the Pandoras that are in the wild already don't get worse because of that, so I wouldn't get too upset about that.

 

[EvilDragon]

I want to invest, and I have access to a few millionaires who are interested. I need a business plan and details for what is needed.

That's great, thanks. I'll have the business plan finished next week and will go through it with my tax counsellor.


I can send it to you after that.


The more money there is, the cheaper production will be per unit - and the faster it can happen.

 

[milkshake]

Aside from ED's comment that it wouldn't be a drop-in replacement. It's still the same - you didn't *have* to replace the motherboard when you went upgraded the 486s and early Pentiums. However, if you weren't techy enough to upgrade them yourself, you would have to just buy a new PC.


So the analogy does work.

it appears you were right, I had assumed based on previouse comments that it would not require any changes to the existing boards. - my appologies.


but in a way pc's can be upgraded without buying a new mboard i.e. new gfx board, new cpu (same socket) better RAM etc so still the anology only works when the techonoly is that new that it doesnt fit the old mb.

 

[F_Slim]

The more money there is, the cheaper production will be per unit - and the faster it can happen.

Are there already any rough estimates on how fast the new factory would be able to produce? 50, 100, 200 a week?

 

[Matenrou]

So could we just remove the older processor and solder the new one?

 

[Red Ring Rico]

The prospect of a more powerful CPU, DSP, and GPU is tempting, but from a development standpoint it's of course a bit more involved either optimising for the lower-clocked Pandora or creating two builds that may be optimised for both. I'm currently working on an OS for the Pandora, using the BeagleBoard-xM for the development version (as it has more RAM and the higher clocked CPU, GPU, and DSP will be great for debug builds), a BeagleBoard for the test version and a Pandora for the retail version of the OS. Really, the only problem I can see is from those who already own Pandoras and don't want to upgrade who are then stuck with programs that run slower and the developers don't have the original Pandoras to test with (of course, the CPU and DSP could be down-clocked). Is there a possibility of procuring 512MiB RAM, or would the cost be too great for consideration?


All-in-all I think it would be a good idea to upgrade the units.

 

[WizardStan]

Assuming the new hardware idea does pan out, when new preorders go up for sale I wonder if existing Pandora owners who want to buy the new one can be given priority, or is that being selfish?

 

[dewc]

This would be interesting. Since my first unit seems to be lost in the mail when I sent it in, due to my own fault for not using a proper shipping method, I would consider this. (Thanks US Post Office for losing my stuff!)

 

[chame]

 

[Caine]

Assuming the new hardware idea does pan out, when new preorders go up for sale I wonder if existing Pandora owners who want to buy the new one can be given priority, or is that being selfish?

It's not a bad idea. A simple way to reward the loyalty of all those patient customers who have helped to make the project possible.


Its main disadvantage is that it limits the number of people who own a Pandora.

 

[WizardStan]

Its main disadvantage is that it limits the number of people who own a Pandora.

ED has said it'd be a pre-order again: they can take as many orders as they want, no limit there. Unless it is a limited pre-order, but I can't see that working out well in this case.

 

[mjohansson]

I would want beefed up hardware defenitly, I will order another one and still find use for both. I also think priority should be given to those who havent yet got their Pandoras, DEFINITLY! I almost cry at the thaught of being without one at all, and then I think of those poor people who are just that, without one at all! Since there are so few Pandoras with this hardware as of now I think most would accept that the oldest ones the relative few owners of only the older ones might not be able to run all programs or atleast not as high framerate as the new ones, and if people would be unhappy perhaps a tradein program could work?

 

[trinz]

Hmm, an extra 200 Euros for the upgraded PCB, don't know if it's worth it though. Am I correct in assuming that there will be a further delay as original PCB's (made either by CC or by the new German company if it comes to that) will have priority over the new ones?

 

[TJFBryant]

Ed, as for a current proud and supportive Pandora owner like myself, I'd gladly buy a second Pandora to help push this new production and potential upgrade further. I've believed in this project since its inception and I know every purchased Pandora helps "the cause."


Count me in.

 

[PokeParadox]

ED... a compatible upgraded CPU... you should definitely do, it will keep demand going as some people think the hardware is getting dated (not me... there is still a lot of power that I haven't yet milked with my own homebrew)


So yes do it. It's not a slap in the face, it's just evolving technology, and tbh I would like to pick up a second unit eventually... have one just for devving and the other one as my gaming handheld that I actually take with me. This would be cool as I could leave the older original Pandora connected to PC via usb always... etc.


If you could also offer PCB upgrades then you have this problem sorted.


Additionally you could sell any old boards from pcb upgrades as "used" so Pandora and Pandora 1.5 models.


Basically just approach the situation carefully and everybody wins!

 

[Caine]

I also think priority should be given to those who havent yet got their Pandoras, DEFINITLY!

Without question all people who have already ordered a Pandora will have priority. I think what WizardStan meant was that the order of priority could be (from high to low):


Existing undelivered pre-orders, new pre-orders by people with the older processor / upgrade program, entirely new pre-orders.

it will keep demand going as some people think the hardware is getting dated (not me... there is still a lot of power that I haven't yet milked with my own homebrew)

The hardware IS getting dated, that doesn't mean it has suddenly become inadequate or anything. It just means that whatever is getting released now has a more powerful processor. Many people buy devices by comparing specs and Pandora has currently lost that crowd completely.