Preparing for a Prototype

[Grench]

Nothing to the US for now. Don't know if there's a US developer.

I believe Lunixbochs ( _aegis_ ) resides in the US..., Someone from Ti I believe will get a unit as well I think.

If there is a want or need for someone in the US to test the 4G module, I'm not a dev, but could definitely put a SIM into one and run some provided test scripts. ED already has the stated value for a prototype on account from me. Hmm...

IF it benefits the project, a prototype could be sent to me, tested for 4G on AT&T and maybe T-mobile if I can get SIM cards, then sent back or on to a dev. Then eventually down the road I'll get the paid prototype #8 that I'm in line for.

My concern is that after the way conversations have gone in the mobile chip discussions, the US 4G needs to be verified as working on one or both of the networks that it should work on. Otherwise it might negatively impact pre-orders.

If there is a US dev ready & willing to do those tests, that's even better.

 

[rygD]

I agree, this is something that should be investigated ASAP. If US 4G isn't a possibility it could be less stress on ED to know now, and he can decide what he wants to do. It would help to have this figured out before preorders start.

 

[WizardStan]

Ok, it's Chinese Air Mail and takes some time to arrive but how can that be??

Shipping is pooled: everything goes into a crate and when it's full it gets shipped out to be redistributed. Sometimes they go to right country, sometimes just one nearby where shipping is still cheap. More than once I've ordered stuff from China and it's arrived with different stamps on it: Poland, Russian, USA is common of course (since I'm in Canada). Presumably it's cheap enough to bulk ship stuff from China to (say) Poland, and then mail them directly from there that everything works out.

 

[Grench]

Of course They'll only have 4GB eMMC storage, that's one thing, and 2GB RAM.
Charging will also be changed - right now, charging does only work reliably with ONE USB port (so it isn't a showstopper just an inconvenience).
So we'll replace it with a charger chip that can handle both USB ports.

Yes, I mentioned that before. But if we already KNOW that there are some minor faults, we rather send these to developers (as it doesn't stop them to work on them) then to someone else who rather wants a fully working prototype.

I'm torn.

My primary reasons for ordering a paid prototype were to support the Pyra project and, of course, to get a Pyra. I'm glad I was able to help chip in on the funds to get the initial prototype board population financed.

I would really like there to be enough early prototypes for the devs - getting the system software developed earlier is a good thing.

The only thing I could really test at this point is if the US wireless module works on AT&T - which a US dev could do just as easily.

That said, I'm anxiously awaiting getting a Pyra - and I did lay down serious coin to get on the prototype list.

Still - I'm not in any particular rush. According to my wife, I already have more toys than I have time to play with and more 'projects' than I actually stand any chance of completing within the next 10 years.

I'm not after a collector's item. I plan to use the Pyra that I get.

Heck, if it helped the project's developers and made things easier for ED, I would probably be willing to convert my 'prototype purchase' to a pair of production units (one with 4G) in odd colored cases (prototype case overruns?) and a collection of all production color cases - which would total out to something less than the prototype purchase price.

After all, to me, the prototype purchase was kind of the ultimate pre-pre-order-order in support of the project. If it also helps the project for me to just wait to near or during mass production, there isn't really anything wrong with that.

I'm open to other's thoughts.

 

[rygD]

Transfer your prototype order to me.

 

[levi]

I don't mind who produces videos of their prototypes soon, but as the only public prototyper so far, I was kind of pinning my hopes on you. I've a feeling once some videos do go up it'll give the preorder queue a kick start.

I personally would be happy with a 4GB/2GB unit. I don't expect one OS to fill that by itself, and I've ordered a unit with 2GB RAM for myself anyway - that's all on the CPU board, and I plan to buy a new one if it becomes available and isn't broken (by sporting an x86 CPU for example), so only the charging issue is permanently slightly defective.

But you're not the only potential prototype owner, and if it does turn out you don't get yours for a month or so after everyone else, perhaps you wouldn't be the first to put a cool video out anyway. Seems like only what you'll get out of the unit should be important to anyone, so:- it's up to you!

 

[FaeMinx]

@Grench if it is at all possible, you should get what makes you happiest.
Personally, I would wait. Being first off the line, isn't always the best strategy. Patience is a rewarding, if personally trying, virtue to have.
Good luck with whatever you decide on!

Sent from my GT-S7580 using Tapatalk

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

Only doctors have patients. No one else is supposed to have patients

Thanks Grench for helping the project.

 

[rygD]

I am still willing to take on the burden (but not the expense) of a prototype.

 

[Grench]

The eMMC and RAM aren't an issue.

I'm mildly concerned about the screen door effect on the early digitizer + screen combinations. This could impact usability - I'm not sure how to understand 'how bad is it'?

I'm more concerned about the single-point microUSB charging. If it is on the stand-alone charging port, that would be OK. I do plan to use the microUSB 3.0 OTG as host and need to be able to power the unit during that. So - if the early prototype boards only charge through the microUSB 3.0 port, that might mean holding off a bit.

I can't see soldering an expensive US 4G component onto a board with the single charging issue.

Hmm...

 

[rygD]

Being a bit more serious, if it were me I would probably wait for the small run ED mentioned to test out the mass production. Unless I am making that up, or misunderstanding what he said. If you can still get it early and have all the hardware updates, do that. While it is cool that you could get prototype hardware, I think it might be better to have the whole shebang.

A few reasons for this suggestion are based on how active you are here. If you are helping someone else troubleshoot, it is better to have the same hardware revision. The same forr someone helping you solve a problem. Additionally, if you ever decide to do any serious hardware hacking then you might want to have the same thing as everyone else. I doubt it would matter much, but if others try to follow your lead, or you theirs, you should be looking at the same thing as everyone else. Due to how minor the changes are it really probably won't matter for troubleshooting or modding, but it might.

From the software side of things, I can tell you that it really sucks when @ptitSeb releases a port that doesn't work as well, or at all, on my CC Pandora. I was so happy he was working on Eldritch, yet I can't play it on my Pandora. I know that is a totally different issue, but it just makes me think. Although it may not be a problem, are you willing to risk losing out on software and games due to eMMC and RAM (yes, we have had many discussions about this, and you don't mind, and possibly prefer, 2GB). Even if that situation never arises, you could still be disadvantaged compared to most Pyrates (is this a term we all agree on? if not, I mean Pyra owners/users).

Regarding the display, if that is a problem I am sure ED will sell you one of the new ones, and you will always have a spare. You could also eventually build a whole second unit if an upgrade for the CPU board ever comes (you mentioned getting extra cases, so make a case, get an extra main board and keymat, add the "bad" display and the OMAP5 board...maybe a display board, I guess).

Ultimately, you paid more, so will it be more valuable to you as a prototype, or would you rather have what everyone else has?

 

[levi]

The ports not working on CC units is unlikely to be an issue for Grench, since he can buy a replacement CPU board if one comes out and people start porting software to it.

My impression was that the charging issue is that it will only charge from the port whose only other use is debug serial out, but I may be wrong. It sounds like your swinging towards holding off for a later revision (in a cool case) for other reasons and that's fair enough if it'll make you happier, though.

 

[pmprog]

From the software side of things, I can tell you that it really sucks when @ptitSeb releases a port that doesn't work as well, or at all, on my CC Pandora

If you thought the CC/Rebirth/1GHz fragmentation was bad, imagine what will happen if there become alternative CPU boards available...

"So is that the OMAP or Allwinner ARM? Oh, you got the AMD x86?!"

 

[rygD]

I totally agree. Honestly, I wished the Pyra would get x86 at first, then I started to see a bunch of advantages to ARM, some of which ED mentioned.

If we end up with a few CPU boards I will see what is going on and decide what to do. I might have to start paying ptitSeb and others.

 

[TrashyMG]

Well with current sales, I'm not too confident we may see an upgrade board.

 

[lukey]

Well with current sales, I'm not too confident we may see an upgrade board.

...from ED. I think at least an Community-made FPGA Board should be possible.

 

[ible]

i still think we have many orders to get after we get more reviews/hands-on with the prototype. once ED starts into doing more videos, the sales should™ improve.

 

[levi]

Yeah, given we don't know for sure that we'll ever be able to play 3d games on the Pyra yet, and there's still a question about heat and throttling, I think the sales we've had thus far are still pretty encouraging. They're not 200 pre-pre orders in under 2 days encouraging, when things were even more uncertain than they are now, so perhaps devices like those from GPD have had an impact, but if the Pandora is anything to go by, there should still be people wanting to buy one after those GPD devices you bought have been superceded, so it should have a relatively long tail.

I can imagine some videos like those we had in the early days of the Pandora should help a lot to offset fears of vapourware/crippleware.

 

[Grench]

I know ED built and got community help to translate a nice press kit. I still don't see any signs of it having ever actually gone out though. When I go to www.google.com/news and type in "Dragonbox Pyra", I still see the same articles that went out pre-press-kit.

Did the press kits ever go to any mainstream English speaking tech sites? I had expected to see a blip on Engadget or ArsTechnica...?

Right now the project is kind of whispering in a well. I'm not sure if that is intentional. Maybe ED wants to get a controllable number of orders for this first batch then let it grow organically once those units get in purchaser's hands?

As for my decision whether to get an early or late prototype - I haven't seen an email from ED yet detailing the choice that he needs the prototype purchasers to make.

I'm fine with the RAM & eMMC. The eMMC is a bit constraining, but I think I have a plan. I already have a 200GB uSD card to drop in that I'll partition for primary OS & software. Then I may keep a command line boot partition with a compressed OS image on the eMMC or may simply use the entire eMMC as /swap.

ED mentioned that he had a solution in the works for the digitizer screen door issue. Purchasing a 2nd replacement screen later in production could be an option. However, I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed, but shipping from Germany to the US is rather expensive. Maybe I can find someone with a main production order to piggyback parts shipping with... Are there any volunteers within 100 miles or so of Omaha Nebraska USA?

The single charging point issue. A while back I purchased four Galaxy Note III phones for my family and set up an infrastructure for them using the wide microUSB 3.0 cables throughout the vehicles and house. I have hubs and adapters and readers set up that all follow that wide microUSB 3.0 spec. I want to be able to connect and use devices to the microUSB port, but given the Pyra's nature, I also want to be able to charge it while they're connected - OR conveniently charge it by one of the wide microUSB 3.0 chargers that I have distributed everywhere. I normally keep a spare narrow microUSB charging cable in my vehicle in case we have a guest passenger that needs it - so limiting to only charging via the narrow microUSB isn't crushing.

Putting an expensive US 4G chip onto a Pyra main board with the charging issue, though, strikes me a bit like knowingly spreading caviar on slightly burnt toast. There would be a lament of, 'how good it could have been'.

Then there is another counter-issue that only @EvilDragon would be able to give input on. If I hold out to the next wave of board population, would that put another prototype into a productive developers hands that would result in systems and support software being significantly better at product launch? If he has someone in mind who could take that existing hardware and create important pieces of the core hardware interface software - that might be more important than having me get a 'collectors item' 2 Months earlier.

 

[levi]

FWIW, I don't think I've heard of this 'screen door effect' problem from anyone but you. I thought the issue ED was having with the touchscreens was their introducing too much softness, quite a different problem to screen door.