PGS Windows 10 gaming handheld - GPD WIN competitor

[Gr8one]

I know a little bit about Nadir from huinting around a while ago. I don't believe this is a scam. He seems to be guy into gaming and a budding entrepreneur .

It's actually true that he started looking at Bay trail and cherry trail devices for gaming 2 years ago. You can see that on russian forums.
http://4pda.ru/forum/index.php?act=search&source=top&noform=1&result=topics&username=Cooler3D

He is a 3d CG specialist who supposedly started his own business 3-media.ru when he was 20 . 3-media.ru is down now though. He also won a grant when he was 20 to study overseas -> http://moidagestan.ru/news/society/9515 - He is the young guy in the middle with the glasses hanging from his shirt. His now 25. He specialises in doing the 3D CG work in TV ads etc. He has a demo real of this which I've posted previously. This one -> vimeo.com/79775846

So what I believe is happening here, is that here is a guy who's into gaming, he is also good with 3D CG work and has connections with doing ads. He has an idea to develop a portable gaming device , but he doesn't have the skill set to do it. So he he seeks investment. He is forced to go onto KS (whether you believe the investor exists or not). So what does he do. He wants to put the best marketing package together for the KS PGS video. So what does a 3D CG specialist who has worked on ads and has connections with people that make ads do. Yes, of course his going to go down that route ie do the 3D CG work for the PGS and use his connections to hire actors and put together a flashy ad. Which gives the false impression of a full working team

Thats when the wheels start falling off, as although they have been honest to some degree admitting things. It's only after they have been discovered usually. Sadly though, they seem to have held onto the ad being people still in their team rather than admitting it was an ad. Then their is the dubious connections (someones father - lets leave it at that)

So I'd say his an entrepreneurial dreamer who does want to create this, but went slightly the wrong way by doing an ad, and not being totally upfront. Sounds familiar right?

Slightly is putting it lightly. You don't get investors by deception. I don't know how business operates in Russia but ethics is a pretty big thing here. Considering KS backing is putting a lot of trust into strangers you need to be as open and transparent as possible or it will blow up. At this point I really don't care if he's an entrepreneurial dreamer. Everything they do has been met with skepticism and will be until they produce something and if they lied at the very beginning, even before the kickstarter then they will lie again. This isn't something you just stop doing, like that familiar person you mentioned. Too bad so sad, cool concept but come back with a real business plan and actual credible information on the project. All he did was blow his load on a snazzy promo video and made some truly nice renders, not something anyone should back and I do not feel sorry for him.

Not a record amount or number of members loss yet today, but it's looking like it'll be the record day so far for comments, according to the kicktraq daily data tracker!

The comments were a fun read today! Needs more Excellent Expert though.

 

[TheOldOne]

The comments were a fun read today! Needs more Excellent Expert though.

http://excellent.mezgr.de/Expert

 

[vcoleiro1]

It wasn't until April that the investor popped into the equation from comments Nadir said in this thread., so him saying that about KS in March, doesn't mean much. Then later in April/May they said they had to go the KS route again.

The original story goes like this. They were going to do a KS, then they found an investor and didn't need it, this was told to us in April, then later in April/May, they said the investor wanted them to go the KS route because they saw their KS draft which was leaked.


@Gr8one, Yes, slightly was indeed an understatement

On a different note. Remember what I said to PGS a day before they went live on KS , and had shown us their final KS draft for comment.
Here it is here: http://boards.dingoonity.org/other-...-system-on-windows-10!!!/msg145953/#msg145953

Mind you, I doubt they could offer vouchers.


The sad thing is, they could have done this the right way. They had the option of the right and long way, or the "seemingly" easy way. The rest is history

 

[Exophase]

It wasn't until April that the investor popped into the equation from comments Nadir said in this thread., so him saying that about KS in March, doesn't mean much. Then later in April/May they said they had to go the KS route again.

The original story goes like this. They were going to do a KS, then they found an investor and didn't need it, this was told to us in April, then later in April/May, they said the investor wanted them to go the KS route because they saw their KS draft which was leaked.

But right now, today, they are straight up saying that they were not planning to do a KS and only did so because their investor required it. I don't think they ever said they were going to do KS until an investor saved them from it. What they said is they weren't going to do KS - period. Then it splits into two different stories: they're doing a KS because they lost investor money due to disagreements, or they're doing a KS because the investors decided to make this a prerequisite to their investment.

Their story about the leaked video is stupid anyway. They got investors who only made them do a KS because they saw a video? Why? Investors might make someone do KS in order to ensure that there's a minimum order quantity and in order to generate more buzz for the product, although with the level of R&D done with this pitch requiring a KS at this stage is an awful idea.

But why would they decide this only after seeing the leaked video? It doesn't make sense.

Face it, everything they're saying about investors sounds super dubious. It's much more likely that the investors don't exist and they're lying to backers and potential backers in order to make them think they're assuming less risk than they actually are.

 

[vcoleiro1]

@Exophase

Yes the investor being real is dubious - I'm no different in having concerns on whether they exist . But I don't see the disconnects in their comments about "the investor"

They did say they were going to do a KS until they found an investor , they said that in this thread. The story is they then needed to go to KS again because the investor demanded it.

So is what they are saying now in the KS campaign inconsistent. No , not IMO, they are saying they were not planning to do a KS in the context of recent history. That's all.

 

[comradekingu]

Besides lying about it,
Why would you make that video with any other intention than a crowdfunder?

Stage 17
Stationary lies

 

[Exophase]

Yes the investor being real is dubious.

Okay well regardless of what else we agree or disagree on regarding their consistency or intentions, I just want to say that this is very important. If they're lying about investors that's a super big deal and could have very serious legal repercussions.

They did say they were going to do a KS until they found an investor , they said that in this thread. The story is they then needed to go to KS again because the investor demanded it.

So is what they are saying now in the KS campaign inconsistent. No , not IMO, they are saying they were not planning to do a KS in the context of recent history. That's all.

Maybe we're splitting hairs about this, and I suppose it's up to interpretation.

Here's that comment again that they made in the thread, in response to you back in April:

We would not want to resort to the help of crowdfunding. At the moment, we are in dialogue with our investors. If everything goes the way we want, we do not need Kickstarter.

To me this is saying that they had not yet developed any intentions to do a KS and thus made no preparations or plans to do so. Yet we know that they were getting ready to do a KS not even three weeks prior to this comment. Then they agree a few posts later that it was "absolutely" a plan B and not something they were actively intending.

Maybe you read this differently. That's okay. There's probably a lot of room for different interpretations and misunderstandings given that they don't communicate in very clear English to begin with.

The other really stupid part about their investor story is that the video was "leaked" by an "asshole" after they posted it in this thread, on a public forum with some dopey instructions to not distribute it.

 

[vcoleiro1]

Yes, they made those comments right after showing us their old draft KS video. ie then they said they were in negotiations with an investor as per the comment above, then there was the good news that the investor was onboard, then the investor wanted a KS.

Here's when they said they had planned a KS way back when that KS draft was made: https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/th...-gpd-win-competitor.77205/page-6#post-1374484

Look to be honest, this is how I saw it at the time. We were getting all up in arms about the validity of all this especially after the KS draft was shown. They then said they were getting, then got an investor and would not release anything until it was ready . ie they weren't going to take anyones money untill they had a fully developed product. I thought at the time, and I'm being honest here, if that changes, then this is a scam for cash. Sure enough it did change. I think a little differently now having found the background about Nadir. But that was the thoughts I had back then. Still doesn't mean the investor is real though

 

[rygD]

ck, you mentioned Monty (or as I like to call him, Mr. Burns) in your update, but I haven't seen him recently. Did he quit already?

I had a thought. Since people are getting offered money to help out and state support for the PGS, I think ED needs to start paying all of us.

 

[comradekingu]

You mean to say you aren't on the bankroll already? That just isn't right…
I haven't even had to GPD-shill to make ends meet yet.

But i hear people are getting into the PGS-shill game these days. But you have to believe to see the reward at the end of the road, I'm just not at that level.

Monty might be a spy, no Russian drama would be complete without. I would atleast try to play it like that if I got myself into something of that nature.

 

[Klumpen]

I know a little bit about Nadir from huinting around a while ago. I don't believe this is a scam. He seems to be guy into gaming and a budding entrepreneur .

It's actually true that he started looking at Bay trail and cherry trail devices for gaming 2 years ago. You can see that on russian forums.
http://4pda.ru/forum/index.php?act=search&source=top&noform=1&result=topics&username=Cooler3D

He is a 3d CG specialist who supposedly started his own business 3-media.ru when he was 20 . 3-media.ru is down now though. He also won a grant when he was 20 to study overseas -> http://moidagestan.ru/news/society/9515 - He is the young guy in the middle with the glasses hanging from his shirt. His now 25. He specialises in doing the 3D CG work in TV ads etc. He has a demo real of this which I've posted previously. This one -> vimeo.com/79775846

So what I believe is happening here, is that here is a guy who's into gaming, he is also good with 3D CG work and has connections with doing ads. He has an idea to develop a portable gaming device , but he doesn't have the skill set to do it. So he he seeks investment. He is forced to go onto KS (whether you believe the investor exists or not). So what does he do. He wants to put the best marketing package together for the KS PGS video. So what does a 3D CG specialist who has worked on ads and has connections with people that make ads do. Yes, of course his going to go down that route ie do the 3D CG work for the PGS and use his connections to hire actors and put together a flashy ad. Which gives the false impression of a full working team

Thats when the wheels start falling off, as although they have been honest to some degree admitting things. It's only after they have been discovered usually. Sadly though, they seem to have held onto the ad being people still in their team rather than admitting it was an ad. Then their is the dubious connections (someones father - lets leave it at that)

So I'd say his an entrepreneurial dreamer who does want to create this, but went slightly the wrong way by doing an ad, breaking KS rules, lying at times, and not being totally upfront. Sounds familiar right?

He is lying and ergo a scammer, that's about it.
I really don't care about his dreams and wishes at this point because honesty should be the prime directive here.

If he wouldn't have been ashamed to be alone with his plans, needs the kickstarter money to be able to try to realize it, would make it clearly visible that his "prototypes" are hacked together concepts, etc... people wouldn't have a problem with it, of course he wouldn't get all the money from the people believing his bullshit either and, being in the ad business, he knows that.
Imho he should rather have tried to become part of the Pyra project instead of building a house of lies he calls his own project, we could have used a promotion guy like him but his reputation is too tainted now.

 

[vcoleiro1]

Well, their update revealing the team - for the second time - should be interesting
As should the Investor unveiling.


Can't wait for that one. Maybe they will employ some more people. I look forward to seeing David Hasselhoff playing the role of Product Designer. Jackie Chan as the PCB Engineer and Samuel L Jackson as the Community Manager.

So Samuel, can you point us to social media sites that prove your identity.
Yeah sure , look for the Facebook profile titled "Bad Mother Fucker"

 

[EvilDragon]

He never hid that the protoype wasn't made of his own parts. It was always written that it uses a Voyo 3 and an IPega Controller.
He didn't hide anything here. He could've made iit clearer, but he didn't hide it.

He also always said that the next prototype will be more advanced but still use third party PCBs.

He never said they'll have a full custom made protoype at the end of the campaign.

 

[comradekingu]

No, he said he would have it at the _start_.

 

[Klumpen]

He never hid that the protoype wasn't made of his own parts. It was always written that it uses a Voyo 3 and an IPega Controller.
He didn't hide anything here. He could've made iit clearer, but he didn't hide it.
He also always said that the next prototype will be more advanced but still use third party PCBs.
He never said they'll have a full custom made protoype at the end of the campaign.

Didn't he say a few weeks ago that he only makes a Kickstarter when the prototype is ready and production is near? I'm not on the dingoonity forums, so not sure, maybe it was GPD. His definition of "prototype" seems to be very lax anyway.
He also deliberately tried to hide things in the videos. I probably just got higher standards for openness that not many companies have a chance of fulfilling (mostly small workshops).
I'm more concerned about the whole team, investors and "calling to arms" thing. As evidence from his Cooler3D account has shown, he hired comment mercenaries for the Kickstarter campaign and I guess this is another rule or two broken since he also asked people to back him with a dollar in order to be able to post supportive comments and pay them back more later if the Kickstarter goes well.
Has someone reported this as well?

 

[EvilDragon]

Didn't he say a few weeks ago that he only makes a Kickstarter when the prototype is ready and production is near? I'm not on the dingoonity forums, so not sure, maybe it was GPD. His definition of "prototype" seems to be very lax anyway.

Yes, and I think this is the issue.
He is certainly not experienced with anything like that, so for him, that proof-of-concept using foreign parts is indeed a prototype for him.
So he didn't lie, he just has a different view on what a prototype is.

He also deliberately tried to hide things in the videos. I probably just got higher standards for openness that not many companies have a chance of fulfilling (mostly small workshops).

He probably tried to do the best with the things he had.
He thought, his version of a Prototype would be enough for Kickstarter. And he mentioned before the video what kind of prototype it is.
Now people started demanding a REAL prototype - which he could never do within that timeframe.
He even said so.

So these videos are the best he can do right now.
I don't approve this, but I can see his motives.

I'm more concerned about the whole team, investors and "calling to arms" thing. As evidence from his Cooler3D account has shown, he hired comment mercenaries for the Kickstarter campaign and I guess this is another rule or two broken since he also asked people to back him with a dollar in order to be able to post supportive comments and pay them back more later if the Kickstarter goes well.
Has someone reported this as well?

Yes, that is something that's really worrysome. It moves away from being an "enthusiastic team with a dream but no clue" to a bunch of fishy guys (or only one, who knows?)
He had a dream, saw on Kickstarter that many shared his dream, then saw the critics, saw how everything flushes away and as last straw (as he can't show any prototype details), he grabs a bunch of people to help him reassure the backers.

Something that DEFINITELY should never happen.
[doublepost=1469096962,1469096794][/doublepost]

No, he said he would have it at the _start_.

He never did. He said he'll have a prototype, which is what he has (in his opinion).
And on Kickstarter, it was always mentioned that the prototype is a hack of a Voyo 3 and an ipega.

 

[hlidegp2x]

I may be wrong but I think they do something like that:

Note that since joysticks are swapped, axis and buttons should be inverted too...

 

[Alperoot]

He never hid that the protoype wasn't made of his own parts. It was always written that it uses a Voyo 3 and an IPega Controller.
He didn't hide anything here. He could've made iit clearer, but he didn't hide it.

He also always said that the next prototype will be more advanced but still use third party PCBs.

He never said they'll have a full custom made protoype at the end of the campaign.

Well, I guess in Soviet Russia, prototypes build you.

 

[Klumpen]

Here's a small list of the dubious accounts I've found so far, just look at join date, backings and comments:

BB
Kenneth
Devin Robertson
Gabe Valadez
wormskull
Kagekiyo
丁超毅(chuck ding)
MOHAMED ALSAADI
Ricardo Navarro Bueno
Maverick
Hamz' Ch'Pas
Antonio Ruggiero Arcangelo
Richard Heslin

Unsure:
Chokun Teacha (maybe he tried a bit harder than the others)
Samson Chiu (look at the other backing )

Here's Nadir's call to arms from the July 14, 2016, 17:59:
https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http://madfanboy.com/forum/sobirayu-miniatyurnogo-monstra-t60624-180.html&edit-text=
and his earlier preparations in March 2016:
https://translate.googleusercontent...g=ALkJrhi17Mh2xTmBdTdykS08sM3aBt4d2A#p3245926

 

[lukey]

@Klumpen Of course they all joined in the Same Month because they saw this cool Device in the KickStarter (why would anyone name an Online Shop like this ?!) Shop but needed to Create an Account there to Buy it.