Pandora's Design

Good or Bad?

  • Love it

    Votes: 1 100.0%
  • It's ok

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Meh.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I dislike it

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I hate it

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    1

DaveC said:
Well you need to know the history of that render. First, when it was made there were no analogs, that came much later. Second When that was made the screen was 4:3, not widescreen. This would give plenty of room for controls because of the screen aspect. Now that those things have changed this render is only good for laughs ;)
It's nice to see you participate in this discussion, DaveC! Would you consider rendering a new detachable model with the latest specs? We could then launch a popularity poll for the two designs; I understand you helped render and/or design the latest Pandora models. Do you think your detachable design would work with a swivel hinge rather than docking clips?
 
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I dont mind the form factor, clamshell/palmtop has always been a sensible solution to screen protection and portability, I still think the GBsp is the most elegant handheld ever designed.

But that keyboard uses a lot of real estate and is something that has never been done well in portable devices. Why not make it a separate (clip on) accessory for those who want to use it all the time, and let everyone else have a more elegant, uncluttered interface?

I foresee a lot of accidental QWE and IOP pressing...

Also, touchscreen on a clamshell -lid-? Its not going to invite any use beyond careful stylus pointing, no DS style rub/touch games then?

Ah well, I'm sure it'll appeal to its niche, more or less...
 
We've been discussing exactly that actually, starting here. If the unit were detachable or had a swivel joint, I suppose vigorous touchscreen use wouldn't be out of question. In the current design, I think heavily interactive touchscreen use would be quite awkward, even if the hinge supported that kind of force. Good point coldfis, hadn't thought of that!
 
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DaveC said:
Second curvy designs are not very good for getting the smallest package with the most features. Adding curves would make the keyboard smaller and create less room for internal components which are rectangular such as keys, LCD, battery. ... My opinion is that geometric looks cleaner in tech gadgets than bulbous curvy gadgets that add curves just to add curves.
Spoken like the Word of God. Kudos.

(edit). Looks like the poll is 160 pro to 77 against. Given that the clamshell approach was so surprising to people, that's not bad for first reactions.
 
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MWeston said:
haha, I knew you would be the first to reply :)

This thing is a dictionary, not a games machine. I was just showing the successful use of a touch screen in the top half of a clam shell design.

P.S. I'm not going to argue with you as your mind is very much made up and that's okay. If it's all the same to you, would you be so kind as to not pollute each topic with the same bitter argument? We get it, no sale for Mr. B. Moving on...
I think he makes a very good point though, what that screenshot shows is that in order to use the touchscreen the unit has to be held so that the back screen is supported with one's hand. This might make touchscreen usage OK, but it will probably compromise the ability to use it in conjunction with the gaming controls. Whether or not this is a major problem I really don't know (for DS I expect you often use the d-pad with the touchscreen)
 
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This thing is a dictionary, not a games machine. I was just showing the successful use of a touch screen in the top half of a clam shell design.


Touchscreen in the Top half will work if you can hold the lower half easily and without touching any Buttons. And the Pandora have alot Buttons. I don't know if there is a way to hold the whole Unit without trouble. Maybe Tochscreen programs have to disable Control-Pads and Keyboard to prevent the press of any unwanted button while holding, I don't know.

I think its possible to make a good Handheld with upper Touchscreen. But the Whole Design has to be matched to the Hands that holding the Device. I Don't know if the current design is perfect for Touchscreen Mode. (Imagine you are holding The Unit 2 Hours or more...:D)
 
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I've said it before, but as long as the hinge is firm enough, you should be able to support it in touchscreen mode just by holding onto the bottom half. And it's not like it's going to weigh anything at all...
 
Guys theres no problem with the design and using touch screen it same as the psion revo i use it all the time. Typing while screen pen is in my hand and when needed using touchscreen its easy.

Personally im not too interested in touchscreen as 3 of my 4 touchscreen devices have non functioning touchscreens. In my experience they break too easy and cost fortune to replace, the only one thats survived is the psion clamshell one which is good news for us :).
 
london said:
Personally im not too interested in touchscreen as 3 of my 4 touchscreen devices have non functioning touchscreens. In my experience they break too easy and cost fortune to replace, the only one thats survived is the psion clamshell one which is good news for us :).
No broken screen ribbon yet, eh? ;)
 
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quartercast said:
DaveC said:
Well you need to know the history of that render. First, when it was made there were no analogs, that came much later. Second When that was made the screen was 4:3, not widescreen. This would give plenty of room for controls because of the screen aspect. Now that those things have changed this render is only good for laughs ;)
It's nice to see you participate in this discussion, DaveC! Would you consider rendering a new detachable model with the latest specs? We could then launch a popularity poll for the two designs; I understand you helped render and/or design the latest Pandora models. Do you think your detachable design would work with a swivel hinge rather than docking clips?

I could but I don't see the point. The design has been decided on by powers that be so we will just have to make do with that and tweak that design slightly to make it final.
 
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Yrx said:
I've said it before, but as long as the hinge is firm enough, you should be able to support it in touchscreen mode just by holding onto the bottom half. And it's not like it's going to weigh anything at all...
The concern is: how would you get a firm grip on the unit without pressing all those buttons? I suppose you could hold onto the hinge - would be kind of awkward though.

DaveC said:
I could but I don't see the point. The design has been decided on by powers that be so we will just have to make do with that and tweak that design slightly to make it final.
Well, if we come up with a better alternative and kick up enough interest, we may be able to change history. I think KeyboardCowboy had a winning formula there, if it weren't for him/her we'd still be stuck with a MMSP2+ SoC :p
 
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Thats what i wanted when I got my first gp2x; a cheap, ARM based palmtop. Now the Pandora is closer to that goal. The only change i would do is the aforementioned adding of Ctrl, Alt, keys in standard positions, because i'm a heavy shell user. I don't care about the unit's aesthetics if it will do the job. It's not jewelry its a gaming palmtop. And kudos to all ppl that is really developing this unit.
 
quartercast said:
Well, if we come up with a better alternative and kick up enough interest, we may be able to change history. I think KeyboardCowboy had a winning formula there, if it weren't for him/her we'd still be stuck with a MMSP2+ SoC :p
Nah, I think you'll find out that the MMSP2+ was abandoned, and the one you'd be stuck with would have been the i.MX31, which is not that bad actually :p

As for the touch screen, I think it'll only be used by certain apps that can use it pretty much exclusively (eg. ScummVM). Switching between touchscreen and dpad/etc would be a nightmare.
 
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Squidge said:
Nah, I think you'll find out that the MMSP2+ was abandoned, and the one you'd be stuck with would have been the i.MX31, which is not that bad actually :p
Really? So even though MMSP2+ was abandoned, nobody told KC about it? Coz he spend 3-4 h a day trying to convince people i.MX31 was better. And then, another forum user suggested OMAP..

Squidge said:
As for the touch screen, I think it'll only be used by certain apps that can use it pretty much exclusively (eg. ScummVM). Switching between touchscreen and dpad/etc would be a nightmare.
I think switching only works well when the touchscreen is on the same surface as the gaming controls, like on the DS. Even then it doesn't work that well, except for the occasional finger poke (using a power-up on NSMB).
 
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Squidge said:
Nah, I think you'll find out that the MMSP2+ was abandoned, and the one you'd be stuck with would have been the i.MX31, which is not that bad actually :p
It appeared to be a change of plans due to lobbying of a small group of people, Maybe that was the wrong impression but I'm afraid we are going to see something like that again and that can only lead to delays. Would be nice to be able to buy it spring 2008.
 
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Actually we started with an MMSP2+ (basically a gp2x with 3D chip) in order to make a very cheap ~$120 machine. This was abandoned when feedback suggested people wanted a serious power house and were willing to pay for it, we had an IMX31 devkit for a very short while (which is an OK soc, nothing special), but then TI stepped in and offered the OMAP (something which would not normally be available to people like us in small numbers) and that is where you find us now, with this amazing SOC which is way beyond what we imagined working with.
 
craigix said:
This was abandoned when feedback suggested people wanted a serious power house
I wasn't one of them, and I don't know if the most devs and users wanted a more expensive device and got a long delay in return. Exophase was very active in the debate, but as far as I know I haven't seen Notaz, Rlyeh, Skeezix, Zodttd etc. pushing this forward. Personally I think the best thing of this new device will be the combination of touchscreen, keyboard, gamepads and pda capabilities. Homebrew doesn't need this much power and only a few extra emulators will be possible because of this.

This could have been cheaper and much sooner launched so imo, in retrospect, not worth it.
 
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b_o_b said:
This could have been cheaper and much sooner launched so imo, in retrospect, not worth it.
Possibly. But don't forget that with the OMAP3430, the required energy per MHz is, I imagine, very much reduced compared to the i.MX31 or especially the MMSP2+.

Meaning, on the assumption that optimization will still take place, battery life with the Pnadora as is will be vastly increased over how it might have been. Which, even if the extra power doesn't get used fully, I'd say is worth the wait for a new chip.

I really miss the days of the NGPC, when 2 AAs could last you for ~30 hours...
 
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b_o_b said:
Personally I think the best thing of this new device will be the combination of touchscreen, keyboard, gamepads and pda capabilities
I agree the good thing about this device is its flexibility. I imagine everyone reads my line at least two, three times. "Did he say good?" Yeah i did. I think this device has potential. I don't quite agree with the current design, and time will tell if this design will work for them, or bite them in the rear. In all honesty i don't see this as a better device to run emulators on when compared to the GP2x F-200. Yes, it has more cpu power, but it still lacks a good space internal storage, and anything including the PSX and above tends to have large storage needs. SD memories can easy make the cost of the device double, just to get a meaningful storage space. On the other hand, a small internal harddrive has its own drawbacks, as power usage, heat, size, and so on. I see why they didn't add a harddrive.
To make it good as a PDA with the capabilities of a PDA, it has to come with official PDA software, that runs well, and supports the expected functions. Is there any open source alternatives that would work, or would that have to be made by the developers, and if so, would they stay true to the open concept? I have serious doubts about its capability to compete with PDA's from brands that have software ready and just takes it a step further. I could type forever, and try to explain how i go from here to my favorite issue the keyboard, but i wont. I've been told in one of the threads that regardless of how good points i have, my opinion isn't wanted, and, well, i didn't care to much about it, but i can stick to one concern at the time.

This can have the greatest hardware, and design ever, sacrificing a little gaming for PDA usability, and the other way, and still fail miserably, due to software issues. When you add PDA capabilities, you have to compete with all the PDA's out there, when you add gaming, to a PDA, with a full web browser, video playback, and the ability to run any software you like on it, your going to pull something amazing out of your ass so it doesn't get compared to laptops. The main argument I've heard so far "this will do everything my laptop does, but its smaller." I don't buy it. Smaller laptops could easily be accessible to everyone, if everyone wanted them. As it turns out, laptops with screens smaller then 12" are hard, not to say impossible to sell anywhere but the "third world." This device, as great as it may be, has a 4.3", and in a comparison, that alone is a problem. Yes, it's not a laptop, but what will reviewers compare it to? What will buyers think about when they look at buying it? In my mind its easy, (Oh crap, here goes my promise to stick to one concern) make sure its darn good at playing games. Lose the keyboard if you have to, replace it with a second touchscreen, and display a keyboard, or anything else you want there. Just make darn sure it plays games really well. It has to look like a good friend you just want to hold in your hands for hours at the time.
But i admit, my main use for this, is without a doubt, as a emulator for Nintendo and SEGA 8-32 bit console, with the addition of settlers and similar games from the Amiga. The last thing i need is a keyboard. I know not everyone else will use it in the same way, but i do think most will. I think the main selling point is, without a doubt, the ability to emulate games. Hell, the second and third largest issues aside from the keyboard people express with this, is the inability to turn it to the side and play games, and that it only has 2 shoulder buttons. Not necessary in that order.

Ok, for now, I'll shut up.
B!
 
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