Pandora's Design

[atomicthumbs]

So its analogs won't be raised at all? And are those images 3D renders or the actual device? I think it needs a little bit more "sexy"...

They can't be "raised"; they're analog pads, not analog sticks.

 

[Yrx]

So its analogs won't be raised at all? And are those images 3D renders or the actual device? I think it needs a little bit more "sexy"...

They can't be "raised"; they're analog pads, not analog sticks.

Everyone keeps calling them sticks, including MWeston. I thought it was something in between a real stick and the PSP nub.

 

[Yuglooc]

So its analogs won't be raised at all? And are those images 3D renders or the actual device? I think it needs a little bit more "sexy"...

They can't be "raised"; they're analog pads, not analog sticks.

Everyone keeps calling them sticks, including MWeston. I thought it was something in between a real stick and the PSP nub.

Well, judge for yourself http://youtube.com/watch?v=TFhhctm9LqY

 

[colt chillin']

couple of let downs for me:

*clamshell.
*no way to play verticals comfortably.
*keyboard doesn't belong on a gaming device imo. (my bad i guess, i thought it was intended to be one)

let's see what happens...

 

[quote]

*keyboard doesn't belong on a gaming device imo.

Really?!? See, a keyboard is one of the many things which makes Pandora better than a psp. A keyboard extends this things open-source capabilities.

 

[Yrx]

*keyboard doesn't belong on a gaming device imo.

Really?!? Ugh

lol, That reply... Sounds something like I would say if I were inebriated.

I don't think Pandora can just be classified as a gaming device. Neither can GP2X or PSP. DS is probably closest right now, with GBA definitely classified as one. The reasoning kind of goes, "Okay, we have all this incredible processing power, why don't we make full use of it?" Besides, a lot of games use a keyboard, at least on the computer side of things.

 

[Megatog615]

Not to mention Amiga/C64/etc.

And various open-source PC games I hope will be ported .

 

[emphyrio]

And various open-source PC games I hope will be ported .

If nothing else, at least my doom saves wil get better names than aaayy.

 

[Ravnos]

And various open-source PC games I hope will be ported .

If nothing else, at least my doom saves wil get better names than aaayy.

If that save name is good enough for the Fonz, it's good enough for you.

 

[A_SN]

No, that just means you'd have to use it differently from a tablet-like device. I can vouch that using a touch screen on a hinged device with a keyboard is not more difficult; it's just different.

Uh huh, and how would that be?

 

[Karel Jansens]

No, that just means you'd have to use it differently from a tablet-like device. I can vouch that using a touch screen on a hinged device with a keyboard is not more difficult; it's just different.

Uh huh, and how would that be?


For starters, because it won't be used in the same way. A tablet touchscreen device uses the screen mainly for text input (either HWR or on-screen keypads), but a tablet-touchscreen will use the screen almost exclusively for navigation (I'm assuming nobody is going to do any heavy duty graphics work on a Pandora). And as the Pandora has hardware game controllers, there's even less need for intensive screen interaction.

Basically, the touchscreen on the Pandora will probably just be a much better alternative to a mouse or glidepad, which on a small, high-res screen is a big bonus. I also think you might be overestimating the cost of a touchscreen: These things are churned out en masse these days. It might even be that a glidepad turns out to be more expensive.

 

[n8archer_XI]

Will Quake 3 be playable on this? And to whoever said an oversized handheld keyboard makes Pandora better than a PSP is lying through their teeth...

 

[vampire8bit]

deleted

 

[Yrx]

And to whoever said an oversized handheld keyboard makes Pandora better than a PSP is lying through their teeth...

I didn't put it that way exactly, but the keyboard and the overall software design will undoubtedly lead to more function than a PSP. Just the keyboard itself opens up more possibilities for games, and that's not even looking at internet applications.

Besides, you don't even know that it's oversized. It's one of the aspects that isn't set in stone yet, so it might be a lot smaller. In addition, I think that's a pretty relative description. Most thumb keyboards on a device this size have buttons smaller than peas, and I don't find that comfortable at all.

 

[aliking]

Clamshell rules. Not least the ability to easily set it down watching movies without having to balance it against something, but mostly because this thing is going in my pocket - even if I have to make some bigger pockets in every pair of pants I own. The size/layout looks great for the larger handed individual.

My only worries are:

- how easy/practical it will be to use the touchscreen when it's up there like that. As a righty, I can imagine clamping the bottom half between the heel of my left hand and fingers with my left thumb just below the left analog (is there enough space there?). I think that could get a little tiring for something heavily touchscreen focused. For clicking, np.
- sharp corners on the bottom. That may just be a feature of the render, but doesn't look comfy
- Small risk of hitting keyboard keys with the heels of your thumbs as you reach for the other buttons. Maybe.
- wow these are some pretty small worries

Otherwise I gotta say; I love it. I just like square things I guess. This is looking like the device I've been waiting for for so long and frankly if people are going to not buy it because it doesn't have a slide-out, then it'll only be easier for me to get my hands on one. Hate away, haters.

ak

 

[kingbuzzo]

This is looking like the device I've been waiting for for so long and frankly if people are going to not buy it because it doesn't have a slide-out, then it'll only be easier for me to get my hands on one. Hate away, haters.

ak

I didn't realize that we were making this device just for you. As you can see there are many people that are very partial to the way the keyboard has been implemented. But this isn't about you vs. me or us vs. them. We are a community and should go for what is best for all of us within reason.

The argument for having a keyboard that can "disappear" is a sound one, and seems to be a very great middle ground for us all. I would think that this should be something to be sought after. If in the end it is not possible, then at least we tried.


how about a toolman diagram

Claim: The keyboard on the Pandora should be able to disappear at the discretion of the user.

Ground 1: There is a division in the scene for those who want a keyboard and those who don't

Ground 2: The sharing of placement between the standard controls and the keyboard compromises the usuability of the two
-Subground 2.1: lack of dpad enables keyboard to have all the keys required to supply one with all the benefits of the keyboard
-Subground 2.2: lack of keyboard enables standard controls to be used with the comfort we've seen in all successful gaming handhelds (if indeed this will play a role of a gaming handheld along with other roles)

I'm not going to bother writing out all the warrants. And ground 2 is somewhat of a description to ground 1. But there is a difference in the principle of the warrant. If there is a division among people, then shouldn't we compromise? And if there is a conflict of usuability (in the actual hardware), then shouldn't we compromise for that reason too? Oh shoot, I just wrote out the warrants... sort of .

perhaps this is all overkill, but I think the argument needed to be clarified. Hopefully we can come to some agreement in the end. I wont get into it too much, but I think the community could benefit from some [ulr=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_centralism]Democratic centralism[/url], but it would seem that many are jumping the gun and calling for unity when our debates have only just begun.

peace and happy holidays,

King.

 

[quartercast]

For those who haven't seen it, this is DaveC's old mockup that I keep raving about:

(Sorry DaveC, just linking to your uploaded image)

This type of design would allow us to have the best of both worlds: a protective, clamshell mode with keyboard, and also a simpler console-only mode with gaming controls. This design would entail two added layers of complexity, with hardware (the docking mechanism and weight distribution) and with software (developers would be encouraged to cater for both modes).

If these complexities were dealt with correctly, I believe the results of this revolutionary design would pay off tremendously for everybody. If they weren't dealt with correctly, it would be detrimental to the lifetime of this console.

With regards to the hardware complexities, I have a few ideas. Instead of docking the console vertically onto the keyboard base, it could slide-click into place in a horizontal fashion into a pair (or more) of L-shaped locks. In the current design, DaveC's console would fall over without some sort of stand propping it up (most weight is distributed amongst the console component). Thus, a mechanical stand or a redistribution of weight is required - say perhaps an extra set of batteries in the base keyboard component.

With regard to the software complexities, I believe there would be a fairly bold line drawn between the types of apps developed for Pandora. A lot of popular entertainment apps (games, emulators, multimedia players, etc) could adequately be operated from the console only (touchscreen+gamepad) and thus would probably be developed to use those inputs only (regardless of whether or not the final Pandora design has a detachable keyboard). Other keyboard-requiring functions would simply be avoided (using the touchscreen) by console-only users, or they could... guess what... attach their keyboard! :lol:

If you've read up to this point, thanks for that, and let me know what you think! Cheers B)

 

[Yrx]

kingbuzzo: That's not a feasible middle ground. As far as I know (I'm not looking directly at the poll right now), there are only 11 people that DON'T want a keyboard, and the wording on there was left pretty open to say that it's nice but it's unnecessary. And if you made it slide-out, you would basically be screwing over both parties. It would be a pain in the butt to hold if you want to play a game that uses the keyboard, and the keyboard would still be there anyways with different design quibbles.

quartercast: I do like that design. But it would be a pain to use if you wanted the keyboard and the gaming controls at the same time. And then there's the issue of more hardware problems, since it's moving pieces in and out all the time.

 

[pupnik]

Yeah. The keyboard needs to be arranged to have a control key, and to have the keys (page up, page down, comma, period, number keys, and delete) in the proper places.

I'd also like an Alt key. And the spacebar to not be this tiny little thing at the side.

The device is very small so packing more keys onto the keyboard would make typing errors too frequent. Seriously. The n810 keyboard is a good reference, and many people hit adjacent keys by accident. There is enough space for raised keys under the beveled flip-top, so please consider RAISED or ROUNDED KEYS that help prevent accidental hitting adjacent keys.

Also consider: Buttons can be MAPPED TO KEYS. For use by xterm, you have plenty of buttons to map to tab, ctrl, esc, pgup/down etc.

 

[pupnik]

Take a look at the other side of the coin - lots of people on here say they don't want/need a keyboard. Presumably they're not interested in using programs which require keyboard-like functions. DaveC's old design would allow people to choose for themselves.

DaveC's old design isn't bad of course but..

1) It would tip-over if set on a surface.
2) Controls on the side of the screen means larger device, which impairs pocketability.
3) Two piece design adds to cost of manufacturing.
4) If carried without keyboard, it has no screen protection. If carried with keyboard, the keyboard dangles down while you are holding it and playing games. To prevent that you have to detach keyboard and place it somewhere. This is more awkward.

(edit: re Exophase yes you can flip around the keyboard so it doesn't dangle as long as you're using a game that doesn't also require keyboard. But in dosbox/c64/uae and most PC-linux games, you would still need keyboard and have a dangling-keyboard problem. The pandora design puts all keys in reach of thumbs all the time.)

I'm pretty impressed that a lot of people on this forum are able to make intelligent comments. Those few who criticise and demand changes based on their pet issue and personal use-case are not to be taken seriously.

Real designers have to consider and balance a lot of issues against each other.