Pandora's Design

[yodaofborg]

So you are telling me the extra keys will not come into play, and that the Q and P keys are hard to reach? Too hard to reach to use as triggers?

Most Playstation games don't even NEED the analogue sticks, so hitting one in any direction could simulate triggers, and not many N64 games need all the buttons that pad has to offer either (due to its design of not being able to hold the pad in a way that gives you access to ALL buttons) I really do not know why people think it does not have enough buttons...

Lets face it, if L1 and L2 are needed more than R1 and R2, then you can put the lesser needed buttons (yes, there are ALWAYS lesser needed buttons, even in Abe) on the keyboard, and use the triggers as *mandatory* buttons.

 

[fatalerror]

I would like to have 4 instead of 2 shoulderbuttons. Please, dont make the same fault like PSP.

 

[quartercast]

Sorry, but I much prefer DaveC's original detachable clamshell design. In the current layout, there is too much space being wasted around the screen, and the control/keyboard area looks much too cramped. DaveC's design makes sense, in that it separates the gaming controls from the keyboard, giving more real estate to both. It is highly unlikely that both sets of controls will be used at the same time when gaming. The modular design also enables users to disband the keyboard when not in use.

DaveC, do you mind re-posting your design on here? It's such a good idea, and it solves most of the problems people have discussed so far. The one problem we found earlier (weight distribution) could easily be fixed by adding a second battery to the keyboard module (kinda like the Ainol V2000 gaming control addon).

I don't believe the design would drive up costs too much, as the console itself could be purchased cheaper and operated sans keyboard module. The keyboard could be bought as an add-on, for an extra charge. The only challenge for the designers would be in creating a strong docking mechanism for the keyboard to plug in to.

I hope Pandora's designers take a good look at DaveC's design (please re-post, I can't find it anymore!).

 

[b._.o._.b]

I would like to have 4 instead of 2 shoulderbuttons. Please, dont make the same fault like PSP.

Personally I don't care one bit about the 4 shoulderbuttons. What's so important about shoulderbuttons what you can't solve by pressing the most left or most right function key or using the Q or the P? These buttons are very near to the thumbs while playing.

 

[MWeston]

I hope Pandora's designers take a good look at DaveC's design (please re-post, I can't find it anymore!).

Dave designed that for Craig so he knows all about it. You don't worry that any split in the hardware is going to result in programs being written that are either limited or only work for those who bought the right accessories?

 

[realyst]

You're the idiot. We're not going to buy something for 300 euros if it looks awful and if the touchscreen is crippled by design.

1) Touchscreen crippled by design? Awkward: maybe, but I don't know, not having held it. Crippled? How?

2) You were perfectly willing to pay 300 Euros for the machine based on its specs and the promise of what it can do. It's a device: not a piece of jewelry. Designed, from all appearances, as a device for hobbyists, developers and the people who like homebrew: a market not unlike the current GP2X market. Making it look pretty and fancy takes extra cash, extra effort, may sacrifice reliability and all around does not make any bloody sense.

3) The device is not ugly. I warmed up to it once I realized all it could do. And all those buttons and widgets can almost be a showoff point of its own.

 

[Mark Watson]

You don't worry that any split in the hardware is going to result in programs being written that are either limited or only work for those who bought the right accessories?

I'd personally prefer to have options, rather than a piece of kit being all things to all people. So if people want four shoulder triggers etc, for a dog's bollocks gaming machine, then they shell out a bit of extra cash for the gamer cradle.

If you want to use it as a laptop replacement, as the promotional material suggests although there isn't much discussion on the boards about this, then you have the option for buying a cradle with a reasonably sized keyboard.

Me, I'm not much of a gamer. I'm still waiting for the perfect mini laptop, media player, web browser and occasional gameplay. What I'd want is something a tiny bit smaller than the Vye Mini http://www.dabs.com/Article.aspx?&ArticleID=3401 as I'd see myself using it in tablet mode a lot for media and web browsing. At the moment, faced with 200sterling for the Pandora, and 500sterling for the Vye, I'm torn between the two, and might err on the side of the Vye.

 

[quartercast]

I hope Pandora's designers take a good look at DaveC's design (please re-post, I can't find it anymore!).

Dave designed that for Craig so he knows all about it. You don't worry that any split in the hardware is going to result in programs being written that are either limited or only work for those who bought the right accessories?


Not really. So far, devs seem to be more than happy to accommodate people with different hardware setups (i.e. stick-click). Lets face it, if I play a SNES emu, I most likely won't require a keyboard to play - why hard-code a SNES emu to the keyboard only?

Take a look at the other side of the coin - lots of people on here say they don't want/need a keyboard. Presumably they're not interested in using programs which require keyboard-like functions. DaveC's old design would allow people to choose for themselves.

 

[prairiefire]

I feel bad making those videos if people think I was straing to hit the analog pads, or that the dpad was awkward. The most comfortable part about it was the analog placement. VERY COMFORTABLE. The dpad is fine to. Great placement.

 

[Yrx]

I hope Pandora's designers take a good look at DaveC's design (please re-post, I can't find it anymore!).

Dave designed that for Craig so he knows all about it. You don't worry that any split in the hardware is going to result in programs being written that are either limited or only work for those who bought the right accessories?


Not really. So far, devs seem to be more than happy to accommodate people with different hardware setups (i.e. stick-click). Lets face it, if I play a SNES emu, I most likely won't require a keyboard to play - why hard-code a SNES emu to the keyboard only?

Take a look at the other side of the coin - lots of people on here say they don't want/need a keyboard. Presumably they're not interested in using programs which require keyboard-like functions. DaveC's old design would allow people to choose for themselves.

I think you and others are seriously underestimating exactly what this little device is going to be capable of. This thing is going to be incredibly powerful, and the price is more of a reflection of that power, rather than a reflection of components such as the keyboard. Compared to the actual guts of the machine, a keyboard is going to be a very minor cost if integrated directly into the design. So basically, what's being suggested would save one group of people a few dollars at most (or whatever currency you're using), and it will drive up the manufacturing cost on a separate component, which will manifest itself in an expensive peripheral for the large group of people who want to use the machine's full potential.

On that subject, this thing is going to be really powerful, and that power can be used for a large variety of functions. Are you really willing to spend almost 200 GBP or 320 USD for something only marginally more functional than a GP2X? But then when you add the keyboard, an entire new world of possibilities is opened up. I can't possibly imagine that you or any of the other naysayers will NEVER want to use something which would benefit from a keyboard. And for a machine that's practically a UMPC, a keyboard is just a smart thing to have. Imagine you have a PC, and you only use it for emulators. You'd still have a keyboard, even if you used a gamepad. It just makes sense not to take something away if it would cripple functionality doing so.

EDIT: lol, Don't feel bad about the videos, pf.

 

[fusion_power]

I don't care much about the four shoulder buttons, but, playing devil's advocate:

Instead of push-buttons, use pivot buttons(sorta like how digital volume buttons are in car stereos) for the shoulders. You would double the micro switches per button and allow someone to "pull" for L1 and "push" for L2.

Like I said, though, I don't really care about 4 shoulder buttons. They can be remapped easy enough.


I'm not a Fan of 4 Shoulder Buttons but this Idea could work well. The Question is, what of the 2 Sides of each Button is the Standard one? I mean the Button you can reach best for every 2 Shoulder-Button game? The form of the button itself could be important to find this out. Sadly, we need an functional mockup for this. ^_^

Oh, all these New Design-Keyboard-Feature-whatever discussions are funny because one of the Mottos of the Device was "KEEP IT SIMPLE" right? :lol:

 

[Mark Watson]

On that subject, this thing is going to be really powerful, and that power can be used for a large variety of functions .. a machine that's practically a UMPC, a keyboard is just a smart thing to have. Imagine you have a PC, and you only use it for emulators. You'd still have a keyboard, even if you used a gamepad. It just makes sense not to take something away if it would cripple functionality doing so.

I'd -love- for the Pandora to be virtually a UMPC, but's it's way too small for 'serious' use. I'm a touch typist and looking at the size of the machine, that keyboard is simply not going to be big enough for proper typing. The Pandora is about 50% the size it needs to be for it to be a realistic laptop replacement/standin.

 

[Peter R]

A UMPC is not a laptop. Just to clear that up for the above poster.

 

[Yrx]

I'd -love- for the Pandora to be virtually a UMPC, but's it's way too small for 'serious' use. I'm a touch typist and looking at the size of the machine, that keyboard is simply not going to be big enough for proper typing. The Pandora is about 50% the size it needs to be for it to be a realistic laptop replacement/standin.

I couldn't see anyone like writing a paper or anything, but watching some of these people on thumb keyboards is crazy. I could definitely see myself IMing on it, or replying to email.

And I don't expect very many people to use it for a laptop replacement, but I also get the feeling that it'll be so much fun, it will replace a bit of laptop usage regardless.

 

[imec]

You're the idiot. We're not going to buy something for 300 euros if it looks awful and if the touchscreen is crippled by design.

What exactly is crippled in the design of the touchscreen? (this is an actual question, not flamebait)


Alright, I just realized what's wrong with the touchscreen, but I don't know if it has been discussed. How well does the top screen react to pressure? Can it stop completely when pressure is applied? I could imagine the ribbon snapping from excessive pressure from the stylus. I really hope that you guys implemented somekind of stopping mechanism to protect the top half of the unit.

 

[whiskthecat]

Look at the videos that have already been posted, to reach the analog nub you have to stretch your thumb out, it's no longer in a relaxed position. It'll cramp up quite quickly if you're actually playing that way. Also, you're extending your thumb fully to reach the nub at a center positoin, which is going to make it hard to move.

That's just stupid. Pick up any handheld that is oriented like the gp2x. I can reach my thumbs into the gp2x's screen as if it were a pair of analogs and play all day with no problems. Actually your not even stretching your thumbs, you just change the angle of your hands.

As for all of you whining, about not wanting this or that on the machine. What you need is a blank box. Because not everyone needs 4 face buttons or a keyboard or controls at all for what they want to do, I guess that justifies removing them. Yea sounds great, we can just ship a mainboard wrapped in playdough and whoever buys it can have their way with it. Good luck finding someone to code for a monstrosity like that.

 

[zaffercharles]

I'm not a Fan of 4 Shoulder Buttons but this Idea could work well. The Question is, what of the 2 Sides of each Button is the Standard one? I mean the Button you can reach best for every 2 Shoulder-Button game? The form of the button itself could be important to find this out. Sadly, we need an functional mockup for this.

Please read all of this before commenting

Well this was completely overlooked and I'd have left it that way, but since you wanted to know which side was which.. there is no best to reach as they're vertical not horizontal.

Here's the pic, this isn't meant to look pretty it's to give the idea, if there's no reason to keep them that low then obviously don't.


"One shoulder per side, 2 actions. Perhaps viable without the overhang at all depending on how much of the above space could be used for them. The slight angle the overhang gives would maybe help 2 ways, using the keyboard on a flat surface and giving something to rest your fingers under while holding with one hand, and using the stylus with the other..

A finger indentation slightly biased towards the top (L1) switch and slightly curved around the side and maybe back of the unit. You would move your finger up or down rather than pressing in per se.
The size of the buttons only depend on how much of that upper back area I left blank could be covered maybe if you don't like the idea of angle and overhang the actual dual in one shoulders can still be used without it.

Anyway, we can probably forget triggers like my old pic because it just wouldn't work on this type of design we have now. Well it would work, but the unit is too small to accommodate them really."

 

[Ayla]

Something I'd love to see changed is the position of the A, B, X, Y buttons. Place them as they are on the Snes / DS please !!

 

[quartercast]

I hope Pandora's designers take a good look at DaveC's design (please re-post, I can't find it anymore!).

Dave designed that for Craig so he knows all about it. You don't worry that any split in the hardware is going to result in programs being written that are either limited or only work for those who bought the right accessories?


Not really. So far, devs seem to be more than happy to accommodate people with different hardware setups (i.e. stick-click). Lets face it, if I play a SNES emu, I most likely won't require a keyboard to play - why hard-code a SNES emu to the keyboard only?

Take a look at the other side of the coin - lots of people on here say they don't want/need a keyboard. Presumably they're not interested in using programs which require keyboard-like functions. DaveC's old design would allow people to choose for themselves.

I think you and others are seriously underestimating exactly what this little device is going to be capable of. This thing is going to be incredibly powerful, and the price is more of a reflection of that power, rather than a reflection of components such as the keyboard. Compared to the actual guts of the machine, a keyboard is going to be a very minor cost if integrated directly into the design. So basically, what's being suggested would save one group of people a few dollars at most (or whatever currency you're using), and it will drive up the manufacturing cost on a separate component, which will manifest itself in an expensive peripheral for the large group of people who want to use the machine's full potential.

On that subject, this thing is going to be really powerful, and that power can be used for a large variety of functions. Are you really willing to spend almost 200 GBP or 320 USD for something only marginally more functional than a GP2X? But then when you add the keyboard, an entire new world of possibilities is opened up. I can't possibly imagine that you or any of the other naysayers will NEVER want to use something which would benefit from a keyboard. And for a machine that's practically a UMPC, a keyboard is just a smart thing to have. Imagine you have a PC, and you only use it for emulators. You'd still have a keyboard, even if you used a gamepad. It just makes sense not to take something away if it would cripple functionality doing so.


Why brand me as a naysayer? <_< I never said the keyboard is unnecessary. All I said was, DaveC's old design is A LOT more flexible, it opens up new possibilities for this handheld (the detachable keyboard unit could be replaced by something totally different - another touchscreen unit a la DS?), and I believe its an awesome piece of design.

I actually love that the unit comes with a keyboard. :lol: I just think it's a lot more functional if this keyboard is removable at the user's leisure. Whether its purchasable or not without the keyboard is non-issue - if the developers are worried about splitting the community hardware-wise I have an easy solution for you. Only sell it WITH the keyboard! That way everyone is forced to play on a level field from the beginning. If you believe that human beings are intelligent, and can make an informed decision for themselves, then sell it with an optional keyboard. I would definitely buy it with the keyboard, and a few dollars either way wouldn't phase me.

Think about this handheld having a revolutionary modular design, better user controls and potentially expandable hardware. I believe such a console would possess a wow-factor many times more than the current design. I hope my proposition gets some serious thought, and is not refused on trivial, easily-avoidable issues.

 

[Karel Jansens]

Alright, I just realized what's wrong with the touchscreen, but I don't know if it has been discussed. How well does the top screen react to pressure? Can it stop completely when pressure is applied? I could imagine the ribbon snapping from excessive pressure from the stylus. I really hope that you guys implemented somekind of stopping mechanism to protect the top half of the unit.

That is actually a good point. The clamshell touchscreens I've worked with (Psions) all open to a fixed angle. And, on a sidenote, broken screen ribbons are the # 1 cause of premature death of Psion Series 5mxs. Not from pressure on the screen, mind you, but from opening and closing the case (and a slightly badly designed screen ribbon).