Pandora Should Move To Android


yodaofborg

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To just *try* Android would be fine, but you would never get Pandora access to the Android Market without Android being the main OS, and Google would have to certify the device as Android compliant. Should Android be the default OS? Kind of seems to be the exact opposite of what the Pandora project stands for.
 

Caine

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Android on the NAND? No way in hell!
Android on a bootable SD card? Sure, great idea. Go for it!
 

ivanovic

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Android as default OS for the "Open" Pandora would be a bad choice. The problem is that it makes life of developers a *whole* lot more difficult. There is no way to easily "compile and run" software that they already got from their normal Linux systems. You have to integrate with lots of java stuff to make things work. Beside this input of Android is by default targeted at touchscreen users, not users having as many keys as we got on the pandora.

Yeah, IMO it would be nice to have Android as option bootable from an SD card. This would be something neat along the lines "because it is possible!", but android shipped directly with the pandora? Won't work nicely.
 

mitosis

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Craig, you sure can make a grown man cry. :(

I think I'm just gonna go curl up in a ball and wallow in a pool of despair for the rest of the night.

Sorry everyone, Craig broke my heart so bad I can't type... otherwise I'd fill you in with my two sense paragraphs (who am I kidding?) here.

Heavy drinking, here I come!

edit: ok, beer pounded and I'm feeling a bit more spirited... enjoy your wordy words!

It would seem that a lot of you are adding unnecessary confusion to this debate. NOBODY is gonna stop the development of third party operating systems... period.

Now, to straighten all of you out, the question for this debate is: "should android be the default OS shipped with the pandora?"

The question is NOT: "should android be allowed on the pandora?"

It would seem that many of you don't make a differentiation between the two questions, and are lashing out in defense of android as if the question were the latter and not the former.

Please please please please PLEASE, stop adding confusion and unnecessary fuel to the angry-fire by responding as if the debate were about "should android be allowed on the pandora?" instead of "should android be the default OS shipped with the pandora?"

The two questions have VERY different implications, and just fyi to you android fans out there: NOBODY IS GONNA STOP YOU FROM PUTTING WHATEVER OPERATING SYSTEM YOU FEEL LIKE PORTING ONTO YOUR PANDORA!

Now should android be the default OS that is shipped with the pandora? I say no, and my reasoning would encompass too many pages of text for me to elaborate on it, so we'll just leave it at that.
 

yodaofborg

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Ivanovic said:
Android as default OS for the "Open" Pandora would be a bad choice. The problem is that it makes life of developers a *whole* lot more difficult. There is no way to easily "compile and run" software that they already got from their normal Linux systems. You have to integrate with lots of java stuff to make things work. Beside this input of Android is by default targeted at touchscreen users, not users having as many keys as we got on the pandora.

Yeah, IMO it would be nice to have Android as option bootable from an SD card. This would be something neat along the lines "because it is possible!", but android shipped directly with the pandora? Won't work nicely.
It would certainly be nice from a *because I can* point of view, but running Android from an SD would be kind of pointless. You wouldn't get access to Android Market - and even if you somehow did - most the applications would be useless because the Pandora doesn't have 3G, GPS or an accelerometer. Even This seems more geeky and usable to me, even though it's just a hacky mess of scripts and chroot's. It may even help towards getting ARM Debian (or Ubuntu, or pick a distro) on the Pandora!
 
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renegadechic

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i dont think there is any "we can all agree" anywhere here.

people seem afraid of being boxed into an OS they wouldnt use with android. i think having android as an option could be great in some ways. would i use it? probably not, but i can definitely see value in having it there. it puts the pandora in a bracket beyond what it currently is i.e. a mainstream product.

what i think we can all agree on is that we want the pandora to be a success. i just think we can have our cake and eat it with someone like android being an option. think about all the people who "jailbreak" android phones but still definitely want to have android as the main option. this could almost be their ultimate device for them having the OS and appstore they want but with the extra capabilities that does not void their warranty or anything else to do great things.

the only thing that would be terrible is if the existing community support for the device dropped out so we had no development on the various OSs front. i still think that the core kernel support should be for every OS possible and not limited to android, but i think a community driven set of numerous OS development would be good. maybe expanding to add an android development team (rather than losing resources from the angrstrom development) would be suitable?

another edit - why are people getting all "wah you break my heart, oh i would cancel!" on this? how many of you bought a game park or dingoo console and happily hacked around beyond the default? i dont see how a device like the pandora that completely welcomes customization and hacking around without having to voice any warranty could be any different or just as good. i dont see any evidence of taking things away, just an avenue to mass market.
 

ParadisoShlee

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I guess this is more of a technical question.. Can Android be run on a device with X? so you get the best of both worlds?
 

notaz

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craigix said:
Consider:

The Pandora should move to Android to get real commercial software and games - plus it's only a matter of time before someone else releases an Android games console (which works well), Pandora should be first.

Discuss...
You do realize it will not work out of the box on pandora, do you?
Good luck finding people to do the port for you.
 
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Hawkey

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Shouldn't it be the choicefor everyone which OS he'd like to put on a SD ? I think we should stay with Angström (~ since the Pandora doesn't have inputs like an accelerometer/GPS/UMTS/capacitiv Display - it wouldn't be reasonable to focus on Android) and offer an additional Android Froyo Port like Gentoo etc. At least an Multi-boot (e.g. Dual Boot for the later "mass market" releases) should be a good option :)

[€dit]

By the way: you should consider the ODROID, which is/will be a gamging handheld focused on the Android market & Applications :unsure:
 

cobaltage

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After reading the entire thread to this point, I thought I would pull together the following thoughts:

1- AFAIK, Google makes Android freely available so that any device manufacturer can modify and use it for any device.

2- Only some companies are using Android in a way that makes it compatible with the Marketplace. Archos, for instance, has used Android on some of its PMPs, and has been trying to create apps so that there will be a few apps that work with their PMPs (wifi only, no 3G, no GPS, higher screen resolution). For Archos, that means that -a- they no longer need to develop their own OS from scratch, and -b- they no longer need to distribute their own apps but can rely on the Marketplace to make those apps available from the device itself.

3- However, some device manufacturers are only using Android as a basic OS, much like they could have used a Linux distro and modified it. The main advantages in using a version of Android that does not have the Marketplace lie in the area of the GUI, browser, widgets, etc. The keyboard is used to type text, but not for typing commands. Instead, the UI is based entirely on drop down menus, mouse cursor or touchscreen, etc. The GUI, the browser, the basic functions are the main reasons to use Android, not the Marketplace, the games, the expectation of a GPS or 3G or phone functions, etc.

4- There is already a fair amount of 'fragmentation' in the Marketplace -- not every device can run every app in the Marketplace even if it has access to it.

5- Nothing will prevent anyone from running multiple OSs on Pandora.


Proposition: Pandora would benefit from a "non-hacker" OS.
I appreciate that most of the regular forum posters know their way around a Linux distro. But whenever I see someone refer to libraries needing to be installed or even text command line code for searching a directory, creating a folder, etc., that means that >90% of people in the real world won't be doing those things.

Rather than talking about splitting the Pandora community over the choice of OS, I think the main point is that the Pandora could definitely use a consumer-friendly, non-hacker OS which relies entirely on the GUI and requires no knowledge of Linux, no text commands, etc.

If Android can fulfill that function, or if the existing OS can, doesn't matter as much as the functional goal of having a non-hacker OS. And if there are two main OSs -- Android and Angstrom -- users will quickly root the Android OS and screw around in that environment as well.


I think it's worth an exploratory attempt to get a Pandora working with Android to test it out. That will enable the OPT to draw up a list of PROs and CONs so that they can make further decisions.
 

mali

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cobaltage said:
I think it's worth an exploratory attempt to get a Pandora working with Android to test it out. That will enable the OPT to draw up a list of PROs and CONs so that they can make further decisions.
Sure, put some workstations in the town hall and start coding. Free rice for everybody :)
 
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slaeshjag

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OPT should not, at least not at this point, bother with porting another OS. If there's a demand for Android, the community will port it. Switching to Android would break compatibility with practically all existing software for the pandora and possibly all software currently in development, and would be a bit kick in the arse for most devs.

So... If there would be a switch to Android, the pandora community would be looking for new devs.
 

renegadechic

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slaeshjag said:
OPT should not, at least not at this point, bother with porting another OS. If there's a demand for Android, the community will port it. Switching to Android would break compatibility with practically all existing software for the pandora and possibly all software currently in development, and would be a bit kick in the arse for most devs.

So... If there would be a switch to Android, the pandora community would be looking for new devs.
this seems a really naive all or nothing opinion. android might end up the main commercial OS but for everyone else (i.e. us) it wouldnt be. all the work so far and going forward would still be happening just as much. not a single person in this community needs to throw any weight or development behind the android side of things, even if that were the main OS, because its a pretty self contained ecosystem. i dont really think it needs any of us to really pay it much heed, it would just be something craig got going on there.
 
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ivanovic

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cobaltage said:
Proposition: Pandora would benefit from a "non-hacker" OS.
I appreciate that most of the regular forum posters know their way around a Linux distro. But whenever I see someone refer to libraries needing to be installed or even text command line code for searching a directory, creating a folder, etc., that means that >90% of people in the real world won't be doing those things.

Rather than talking about splitting the Pandora community over the choice of OS, I think the main point is that the Pandora could definitely use a consumer-friendly, non-hacker OS which relies entirely on the GUI and requires no knowledge of Linux, no text commands, etc.
That system is already available. It is called "MiniMenu". Basically a menu like you get it on the PSP, GP2X and whatnot. No need to know any internals or anything. The desktop view and the stuff you *can* do there is just some bonus for those that are willing to.
 
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mali

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RenegadeChic said:
this seems a really naive all or nothing opinion. android might end up the main commercial OS but for everyone else (i.e. us) it wouldnt be. all the work so far and going forward would still be happening just as much. not a single person in this community needs to throw any weight or development behind the android side of things, even if that were the main OS, because its a pretty self contained ecosystem. i dont really think it needs any of us to really pay it much heed, it would just be something craig got going on there.
The resources of the community are limited. Developing a different OS _will_ limit them further if you don't invite devs from outside.
 
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