Pandora Price Increase!


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mvickers03

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benji_stein said:
mvickers03 said:
I agree with this 100% it's either this, or nobody gets any Pandora's and the team are left with mountains of debt, I understand people will be a little angry but it's not that bad really, 100 units is less than half of 1 weeks progress at the current rate. Plus nobody could of ever predicted the bad luck this project has had, and that bad luck has come at a price.
Except for the fact that they never said it was just 100 units that they'd do. They said "they might not" not that they "would not". Given Craig talking, that's a world of difference.
Yeah maybe.. Whatever it takes to keep OP alive I support it! they have said they will stop at 100 for now. We will know if they need to do it again, only time will tell.
 
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moxie

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Tripmonkey_uk said:
BaDToaD said:
Tripmonkey_uk said:
I don't want the project to fail either but I will not support OpenPandora if they don't provide a good reason for doing what they did.
They did it so the Pandora can keep being produced beyond the current orders for batch 2 and to have a shot at a pandora 2 in the future.

Is that a good enough reason?
No, not at all.

Seeing as though they said that batch 1 would be finished within the next 2 months anyway due to the board production speeding up, they could have done the same thing after the pre-orders.
No. By then, it would be dead.

Tripmonkey_uk said:
They could have got people in from the forum again to help out and accomplished the same thing without screwing anyone over. I sent Craig a PM the last time they did that and told him that due to me currently being out of work, having 20+ years fixing and building electronics equipment and computers and having loads of family in Newcastle, I could easily do a couple of weeks helping out.
You can do "a couple of weeks". That is probably more than one can hope for in general from volunteers, and still it is not enough.

Tripmonkey_uk said:
They could also have used the dev fund and paid it back in later.
Yes, 'coz that really would have gone over well, hadn't it? Not to mention that I highly doubt that there is enough monies there.
 
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mitosis

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Here's what I don't understand, Mr Tripmonkey... what about how electronic devices are made is not clear to you? If you've got 20+ years of experience fixing and building electronics then you OBVIOUSLY ought to know how the process goes right?

They have the circuit boards designed, they have the case molds made, they have all the parts sourced, they have connections with factories... you ought to know the implications... you ought to know how production volume really means nothing after the design and prototyping phase is done with... the sky's the limit, the hardest part to source is probably the LCD and that's no problem if you've got enough lead time on your order for parts.

Obviously, the limitation is that they can only build as many Pandoras as they have the money to buy the parts for. So they gotta keep selling consoles BEYOND the original 4000 orders if they wanna continue... and they HAVE. So now we can just guess that there's now 8000 preorderers with batch 2. Of course, anybody who knows ANYTHING about electronics knows you always have failures therefore you stock extras... and you're probably gonna want some demo units so you'll stock some extras... and you'll probably wanna blow a few up seeing how far you can push them so you'll stock some extras... you see where I'm going?

You need to STOP thinking about this XX quantity of 500 dollar Pandoras as "XX number of Pandoras being taken from righteous order-queue holders" and start seeing it for what it REALLY is: that many MORE Pandora customers. We are now 8000 + XX quantity strong. If you think those 500 dollar Pandoras are in any way inhibiting any of the other 8000 orders from getting to their loving owners' hands, then you must know very little about the manufacturing process.

The way you preach about "open source ideology" like some sort of self-entitled spoiled child makes me sick! What makes you think you're so special that you're entitled to anything from the OP team besides a console in your hands? You should consider yourself BLESSED that they have kept us all as informed about the process as they have been... I know I certainly do. The only thing you're doing here is stirring up hate and distrust amongst a group people who ought to be all working together, you're sick and I wish you would just leave and stop trying to take the rest of the boat down with you.

I'm sorry, I shouldn't be so mean or so personal... you just bring out the worst in me, man... after all from my perspective you basically represent the forces of evil trying to destroy everything I hold dear: the Pandora project. I don't mean to say that YOU are the sole source of this evil seeking to destroy the project, rather when I say you I mean "you and everyone else who rallies behind the same cause as you." So PLEASE, stop spreading all the hate, stop destroying the project... I wanna be able to get 5 or 6 of these things from future batches and at the moment it's people like you who are here all the time making posts that spread distrust and hate for the OP team that stands in my way of getting my other 5 or 6 Pandoras, therefore you and your ilk are my arch enemies.
 

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mitosis said:
Here's what I don't understand, Mr Tripmonkey... what about how electronic devices are made is not clear to you? If you've got 20+ years of experience fixing and building electronics then you OBVIOUSLY ought to know how the process goes right?

They have the circuit boards designed, they have the case molds made, they have all the parts sourced, they have connections with factories... you ought to know the implications... you ought to know how production volume really means nothing after the design and prototyping phase is done with... the sky's the limit, the hardest part to source is probably the LCD and that's no problem if you've got enough lead time on your order for parts.

Obviously, the limitation is that they can only build as many Pandoras as they have the money to buy the parts for. So they gotta keep selling consoles BEYOND the original 4000 orders if they wanna continue... and they HAVE. So now we can just guess that there's now 8000 preorderers with batch 2. Of course, anybody who knows ANYTHING about electronics knows you always have failures therefore you stock extras... and you're probably gonna want some demo units so you'll stock some extras... and you'll probably wanna blow a few up seeing how far you can push them so you'll stock some extras... you see where I'm going?

You need to STOP thinking about this XX quantity of 500 dollar Pandoras as "XX number of Pandoras being taken from righteous order-queue holders" and start seeing it for what it REALLY is: that many MORE Pandora customers. We are now 8000 + XX quantity strong. If you think those 500 dollar Pandoras are in any way inhibiting any of the other 8000 orders from getting to their loving owners' hands, then you must know very little about the manufacturing process.
As has already been explained a multitude of times Openpandora already have the money to pay for the first batch; they are NOT skint. You only need to read back one page of this thread to learn that. Without a steady supply of boards, the only option OpenPandora have is to use the first batch boards and stickers. What don't you understand about that??

As I've also already stated plenty of times that it's also the way that OpenPandora did it that's the problem and not just the fact that it was done.

mitosis said:
The way you preach about "open source ideology" like some sort of self-entitled spoiled child makes me sick! What makes you think you're so special that you're entitled to anything from the OP team besides a console in your hands? You should consider yourself BLESSED that they have kept us all as informed about the process as they have been... I know I certainly do. The only thing you're doing here is stirring up hate and distrust amongst a group people who ought to be all working together, you're sick and I wish you would just leave and stop trying to take the rest of the boat down with you.

I'm sorry, I shouldn't be so mean or so personal... you just bring out the worst in me, man... after all from my perspective you basically represent the forces of evil trying to destroy everything I hold dear: the Pandora project. I don't mean to say that YOU are the sole source of this evil seeking to destroy the project, rather when I say you I mean "you and everyone else who rallies behind the same cause as you." So PLEASE, stop spreading all the hate, stop destroying the project... I wanna be able to get 5 or 6 of these things from future batches and at the moment it's people like you who are here all the time making posts that spread distrust and hate for the OP team that stands in my way of getting my other 5 or 6 Pandoras, therefore you and your ilk are my arch enemies.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: That's the most insane thing that I've ever read on this forum. OpenPandora is a business not a religion. I'm actually a little embarrassed for you now.

OpenPandora broke the law and I have a right to voice my opinion about it on the forum if I want. Would you prefer it if I just reported them to Trading Standards instead and risk having the project shut down?
 
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EvilDragon

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Tripmonkey_uk said:
OpenPandora broke the law and I have a right to voice my opinion about it on the forum if I want. Would you prefer it if I just reported them to Trading Standards instead and risk having the project shut down?
Umm... sorry, where did OpenPandora break a law?
It would be breaking a law if no Pandora would be delivered to you and you asked for a refund or deadling to ship it to you without getting either of both...
 
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Trip

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EvilDragon said:
Tripmonkey_uk said:
OpenPandora broke the law and I have a right to voice my opinion about it on the forum if I want. Would you prefer it if I just reported them to Trading Standards instead and risk having the project shut down?
Umm... sorry, where did OpenPandora break a law?
It would be breaking a law if no Pandora would be delivered to you and you asked for a refund or deadling to ship it to you without getting either of both...
I've already explained this a couple of times.

Amazon got screwed for it in 2001 when they failed to fill pre-orders before selling more stuff. Unfortunately they thought they could take new orders at the same time as fulfilling the pre-orders but their supplier dried up for a while. This left people who had pre-ordered without their goods whilst new orders had been completed.

New laws were brought in to protect people who pre-order goods on-line which basically state that When selling a product, all pre-orders must be fulfilled before normal sales can resume.
 
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sebt3

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Tripmonkey_uk said:
There's nothing trolly about it at all and feel free to use the ignore feature.
What was your point in your previous posts in that thread ? All I see is insulting someone and trolling. Proove me wrong.

if you want craig to stop the premium sale (aka kill it's own project with current finances), get him in court, or cancel and gtfo.
 
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Trip

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sebt3 said:
What was your point in your previous posts in that thread ? All I see is insulting someone and trolling. Proove me wrong.
Why would I need to prove you wrong? You can read the post yourself and realise that I was only responding fairly to the religious crap that he had said to me.

sebt3 said:
if you want craig to stop the premium sale (aka kill it's own project with current finances), get him in court, or cancel and gtfo.
Stopping selling the premiums will NOT kill the project. The money raised was simply supposed to speed up the project nothing more. I've just pointed out the fact that they went about it the wrong way and screwed over a lot of people who stood by them in the process.
 
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EvilDragon

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Tripmonkey_uk said:
I've already explained this a couple of times.
Amazon got screwed for it in 2001 when they failed to fill pre-orders before selling more stuff. Unfortunately they thought they could take new orders at the same time as fulfilling the pre-orders but their supplier dried up for a while. This left people who had pre-ordered without their goods whilst new orders had been completed.
New laws were brought in to protect people who pre-order goods on-line which basically state that When selling a product, all pre-orders must be fulfilled before normal sales can resume.
Well, okay, so we've got to choices...

1. Because the nubs disaster did cost a lot money and some people are cancelling, the project could go bust when running out of money because the slower we produce, the more people will probably cancel. That could lead OpenPandora to go bust and therefore, nobody would be getting any money back and no Pandoras, so the worst case scenario.

2. With the Premium Pandoras, production can be sped up by having a bigger team, less people are going to cancel (and if they do, their unit could be sold at a higher price as Premium unit as well to compensate that), which will make the whole thing continue. Only IF someone sues us because of that, the company goes bust and nobody would get anything anymore.


So, well, yeah... I also don't like that, I'd rather have it that we still had the ressources to pay the people to help out with the Pandora production ourselves.
I'd also rather had it that the nubs never were broken from the beginning or CC would be more accurate and faster with shipping the units and give us some proper schedule.
Because those were the issues that cost us a lot of money. In fact, production of each unit in Batch 1 was approx. 400 USD as cost. Just calculate how much of our private money we put into that to get the units out... sales price was 250 USD at the beginning, so a loss of 150 USD per unit. With 3000 units, you can see how much that is...

Sure, you can see us as business, technically, both OpenPandora Ltd. and OpenPandora GmbH are both businesses.
However, I still see us as guys who try to achieve something together with the community.
We were inexperienced, which is something everyone knows. We are trying our best, I'm working about 12 hours a day just on Pandora stuff and basically are paying money doing that, not getting anything.

So would you rather like us saying "Geez, it's too much for us to handle, we give up", stop the whole thing, file insolvency and no one would get any Pandora anymore (and most no money back)?
Or do you rather want that we continue to try our best and get the units to everyone as soon as possible?


If you're having so much trouble about that, why not tell Craig to ship your unit out NOW otherwise you will take him to court?
Though I'm not sure it's cool going to court here as it means that probably most users here who paid the same amount as you on the same day won't get anything... no money nor a unit.
But if it's what you want, no one can stop you here.
 
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EvilDragon

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Tripmonkey_uk said:
Stopping selling the premiums will NOT kill the project. The money raised was simply supposed to speed up the project nothing more. I've just pointed out the fact that they went about it the wrong way and screwed over a lot of people who stood by them in the process.
So, can you assure us that NO one will cancel anymore once production slows down?
Or are you ready to lend us the money if that happens?
 
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Trip, I think ED is right. I see your point deep in the frustration of yours, but I still think it was the best they could handle this.

OP is not Apple, nor MS, nor Sony. OP are 4 guys trying the impossible for us. I repeat: for _US_. They risk their existance for it and therefore they deserve our respect.

I've got a pandora here. It's worth the waiting. C'mon, soon it's yours too. B)
 

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EvilDragon said:
Well, okay, so we've got to choices...

1. Because the nubs disaster did cost a lot money and some people are cancelling, the project could go bust when running out of money because the slower we produce, the more people will probably cancel. That could lead OpenPandora to go bust and therefore, nobody would be getting any money back and no Pandoras, so the worst case scenario.
But you and Craig said that Openpandora had the money for the first batch and that the money made from the premium units would just go to speed up the project. How come that's now change to you needing the money to keep the project going?

How many people do you think have cancelled because of this? How many people do you think were waiting on the sidelines before ordering because they thought it might be a scam and didn't want to loose money. You think those people will still buy from you after something like this?

EvilDragon said:
2. With the Premium Pandoras, production can be sped up by having a bigger team, less people are going to cancel (and if they do, their unit could be sold at a higher price as Premium unit as well to compensate that), which will make the whole thing continue. Only IF someone sues us because of that, the company goes bust and nobody would get anything anymore.
This only works if CC deliver you boards on time every time and that hasn't happened so far has it?

I've already stated on numerous occasions (including a couple of posts up) that I have no plans to sue OpenPandora haven't I? so what are you on about that for?

EvilDragon said:
So, well, yeah... I also don't like that, I'd rather have it that we still had the ressources to pay the people to help out with the Pandora production ourselves.
I'd also rather had it that the nubs never were broken from the beginning or CC would be more accurate and faster with shipping the units and give us some proper schedule.
Because those were the issues that cost us a lot of money. In fact, production of each unit in Batch 1 was approx. 400 USD as cost. Just calculate how much of our private money we put into that to get the units out... sales price was 250 USD at the beginning, so a loss of 150 USD per unit. With 3000 units, you can see how much that is...

Sure, you can see us as business, technically, both OpenPandora Ltd. and OpenPandora GmbH are both businesses.
However, I still see us as guys who try to achieve something together with the community.
We were inexperienced, which is something everyone knows. We are trying our best, I'm working about 12 hours a day just on Pandora stuff and basically are paying money doing that, not getting anything.

So would you rather like us saying "Geez, it's too much for us to handle, we give up", stop the whole thing, file insolvency and no one would get any Pandora anymore (and most no money back)?
Or do you rather want that we continue to try our best and get the units to everyone as soon as possible?


If you're having so much trouble about that, why not tell Craig to ship your unit out NOW otherwise you will take him to court?
Though I'm not sure it's cool going to court here as it means that probably most users here who paid the same amount as you on the same day won't get anything... no money nor a unit.
But if it's what you want, no one can stop you here.
There's not one thing in that entire post that even tries to explain why you couldn't put up a simple blog or forum post apologising to the people who have been waiting and supporting you for so long. Instead Craig made a blog post for his sob story, as if that was supposed to excuse what had happened; I've seen a lot of bullying from people on the forum as soon as anyone tries to bring up a valid point against the Premium Pandoras; and all you seem to have to say is if people don't like it they can cancel.

This is your idea of trying to achieve something together with the community? You've shown nothing but complete disregard for this community over the past month or two.
 
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sebt3

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trolling, complaining...
Ok so you're not happy. So what ? Have you a better idea to keep the project rolling ? want to get your cash in to save the boat ?
I'll repeat myself : sue craig or cancel and gtfo.

You are adding nothing beside noise to the line.
 

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sebt3 said:
trolling, complaining...
Ok so you're not happy. So what ? Have you a better idea to keep the project rolling ? want to get your cash in to save the boat ?
I'll repeat myself : sue craig or cancel and gtfo.

You are adding nothing beside noise to the line.
Actually your the one trolling and adding nothing to this conversation. That should be obvious to anyone by now.
 
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Linux-SWAT

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What is obvious is the fact the OP is not produced by a big company so stop treating the team as liars and thieves.
It's a rock'n roll project, so be cool.
 

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Linux-SWAT said:
What is obvious is the fact the OP is not produced by a big company so stop treating the team as liars and thieves.
It's a rock'n roll project, so be cool.
So that's a good enough reason to break the law and to be disrespectful to their customers is it?
 
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htl2001

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So basically you don't care that you will get your Pandora faster, you only care that some (currently less than) 100 people DON'T get one before you?

I welcome the speedup, and contrary to a lot of sentiments, I feel this makes the wait worth it. I got the Pandora for almost $200 less than it will sell for from now on. Of course I would have preferred it if this didn't have to take place, but there are plenty of things that can be said for :p

As for the comments about now CC being the slower one: consider if they hadn't more than doubled production speed, they'd have a HUGE backlog of boards to assemble still. I don't think they've been idle that many days that it negates the speed up they got from hiring extra people?
 
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