Pandora Price Increase!

[neko]

Well, originally batch 1 orders were $330. Craig indicated that they were losing money on these, so for batch 2 the price was increased to $349. Then there was the failed nubs and the LCD cables and the shoulder buttons and whatever else they had to repair. Those RMAs must have cost a lot of money just shipping things back and forth.

I don't know what the total amount of money is either, but I did express my disbelief in the other thread when Craig suggested he might only sell 100 'premium' Pandoras. Craig's reply was that he was hoping to get some profits from the iControlPad. You know, if absolutely nothing goes wrong with the iControlPad.

 

[skyeyemachine]

Speaking for myself, I would definitely consider paying a bit more if it meant it got me a faster processor and more RAM. I didn't jump on the express Pandora bandwagon simply because I couldn't justify the cost to myself; paying $150 more just for express delivery, which is what it would have amounted to for me, just doesn't make sense, as much as I would love to have my unit that much faster. I seriously considered it on the merit of funding a project I very much want to see succeed, but I'm not exactly floating in cash right now.

Anyway, while I understand the reservations about increasing the Pandora's specs while the first batches haven't finished shipping yet, I honestly think it's silly to ignore the benefits of improved hardware that is available for negligible costs, especially considering the large delay in the Pandora's release since its inception. Better hardware would enhance the Pandora's appeal to new buyers, something the team can't underestimate right now based on their reliance on the recent $500 express tactic.

I'll just also add that if I got my Pandora and the 3750 upgrade or such was introduced after mine arrived, I might be a bit disgruntled over it, but not very. I guess that's my 2 cents.

 

[God Ginrai]

I'll just also add that if I got my Pandora and the 3750 upgrade was introduced after mine arrived, I might be a bit disgruntled over it, but not very. I guess that's my 2 cents.

You might not, but that depends on your interests. If you enjoy the things that are more likely to tax the system, then knowing that you missed out on this opportunity just because you supported the project in the beginning would feel like you got shafted.

-God Ginrai

 

[skyeyemachine]

You might not, but that depends on your interests. If you enjoy the things that are more likely to tax the system, then knowing that you missed out on this opportunity just because you supported the project in the beginning would feel like you got shafted.

-God Ginrai

Fair enough, I suppose. But somehow the idea of passing up a perfectly good hardware update simply because it wasn't available earlier almost irks me more...!

 

[DavidBowman]

First, Craig told me a few things directly (he can't post here), to be fair it's worth mentioning some of his side on this:

- They can't even get lead times on DM3730, so it's not an option for them with their current distributors.. of course you can't do much about this. Bear in mind that this does go against the reasoning ED said, but that doesn't necessarily mean someone's lying because let's face it, those two aren't always on exactly the same wavelength.
- He told me that buying more manufacturers now WOULD cut costs since there's a time-based overhead for keeping shop open which I suppose is a reasonable omission.
- He wanted to make it clear that his financial situation (and I presume by extension MWeston's financial situation) isn't the same as OP's financial situation. iow, OP isn't broke.. which is good, because if they were you couldn't get refunds. So I have to say I was too quick to agree with Neko on that one.
- MWeston is working on stuff.. some Pandora related, some other-OP-related (like iCP)

While you're not wrong about the DM3730, despite the cost difference between the chips you still have to factor in the R&D time, the cost of changing the boards with the production company and the cost of the delays to the project, which - if we are to believe what Craig has told us - would be devastating.

I must have not been clear, please allow me to reiterate.. The Pandora boards have already been made compatible with DM3730. The chip was designed to be as close to drop-in compatible as possible so it wasn't a huge modification. Nothing has to be changed, there's no additional cost. OP could put DM3730s in existing boards if they wanted to, providing they were able to obtain them.

Wouldn't such a change be better for the Pandora 2? It's not as though the Pandora is underpowered and incapable of playing games, videos, etc. even if it is outdated. Sure, more power is always better, but as everyone in the world is aware: you're always buying yesterday's technology. That said, our particular "yesterday's technology" is two years old at this point. But we all know why.

It's too modest of an improvement for a Pandora 2. Certainly everyone is "yesterday's technology", but you can't really argue that there's a correlation between just how old something is and how marketable it is.

Agreed. No, I did not catch that it was a drop-in replacement. That is an important difference.

What you're describing is just sour grapes. You won't have better N64 emulation no matter what happens, you just don't want other people to have it too. Unfortunately this mentality is probably a legitimate concern.

You're right, I won't. But that doesn't change the fact that people will feel slighted when a slightly better version of the same product comes out for the same price. Why do you think so many people were pissed when the DS Lite came out?

One of the things that people enjoyed about consoles until recent years were that they were stable and lengthy in their release and use, unlike computers. You got the console and there wasn't some upgraded version that you were missing out on. At most you missed out on getting a different color console. The next upgrade was the next system.

-God Ginrai

Like you said, Exo, there will be some concern over the above. Such as:

If OP team goes with a revised CPU for later batches then they are hypocrites, simple as that. We were repeatedly told that all machines until 'Pandora 2' would have the same performance (bar clockability) when we ordered. To turn around and start spitting out Pandoras with faster processors for those that ordered later is a boot in the testes. I don't think they'll do it, the backlash would be too immense.

I am a first dayer myself, but I would completely understand the reasoning for upgrading the hardware. If the price is going to go up, better that it have some additional functionality. Hell, I'd probably order another if this is the case.

 

[skyeyemachine]

I am a first dayer myself, but I would completely understand the reasoning for upgrading the hardware. If the price is going to go up, better that it have some additional functionality. Hell, I'd probably order another if this is the case.

This. Although of course the initial support of the 1st and 2nd-batch preorderers cannot be underestimated, the fact is that we have paid less than newcomers will for the same product if the hardware is frozen as is. If the price must increase, upgrading the specs a bit when it's not only really easy to do, but practically free, seems like a realistic and opportune way to sweeten the deal a bit in return. It just makes sense to me.

Introducing the upgrade as early as possible would be my vote. I bought into the Pandora knowing it wouldn't be the smoothest of rides, and I guess I'm just not one to worry over sour grapes, if I'm using the expression right.

 

[streak]

If i really could get the chance to "pay today , get tomorrow" instead of "Pay in 2008 less 150$ and get in 2011" i'd pay 500$, because in the process of waithing for neverending "two months" i was prepared to cancel my order twice. And looking on it from a firstbatch'r eyes, im dissapointed by OP moves right now..

btw. I wonder will OP Team make preorders for P2 without showing users/"investors" a working unit..

 

[Asmo]

What I would like to know is why are 80% of people here bashing the OP team for this decision while 80% of people on the main boards are being supportive?

Stockholm Syndrome.

;P

 

[Trip]

Although of course the initial support of the 1st and 2nd-batch preorderers cannot be underestimated, the fact is that we have paid less than newcomers...

Craig says that the people who pre-ordered have nothing to complain about because were getting the Pandora cheaper than the new people. Lets get one thing straight here!..

They couldn't make profit on the first Pandoras because nobody would have paid any more than that for a device that didn't exist at the time.

We paid the amount that the Pandora was worth at the time. It was the developers who chose the amount and were happy with it for the first batch until they saw what they can now get for them.

The only reason that Pandoras are worth over $500 now is because the pre-order money was used to build the product in the first place.

Craig's seen the Pandoras being sold on eBay for over $500 and has now decided that's what a Pandora is worth. If they though that one was worth that much before, they would have upped the price of the second batch more than what they originally did.


We paid the amount of money that the Pandora was worth at the time. The only reason that they are worth so much now is because of the people that pre-ordered in the first place. We don't owe Craig shit!

EDIT: Another reason for the price being lower in the first place was because the first one's made would need to be sent back if they weren't right. The lower price was so that the people who got the units with faults would be able to send them back thereby improving and refining the process.

 

[streak]

Batch 2 period could be slippery for Craig because 3DS and NGP comming.. Back in '08, there was real drought in handheld market.

 

[andmaz]

Although of course the initial support of the 1st and 2nd-batch preorderers cannot be underestimated, the fact is that we have paid less than newcomers...

.......but we have paid/invested money and waited nearly 2.5 years so that argument is a none starter - fair enough some batch 1 preorders were very late on but I for 1 ordered in first few days and so did alot of others.

At $500 a unit how many would have done that and then waited this amount of time?

Without early batch 1 preorders this project would never have got off the ground - its all a massive debate but people who order now at $500 and receive within a week have negated all the risk we had and reap the rewards first!

Craig should have raised the price properly for batch 2 - he must have had an good idea that $349 was just still far too cheap to make any kind of profit.

....and still CC can only produce 250 boards a week so only need 3 people to assemble that many units - hopefully that is now incorrect and CC are producing significantly more boards.

 

[Trip]

Exactly.

I've been fairly quit about this up until now with it being the weekend. I expected OpenPandora to make an official announcement by now but it looks like they might not. I hope they don't keep quit about this in the hope that it will be forgotten about because that really will come back to bite them in the arse

 

[Asmo]

Although of course the initial support of the 1st and 2nd-batch preorderers cannot be underestimated, the fact is that we have paid less than newcomers...

.......but we have paid/invested money and waited nearly 2.5 years so that argument is a none starter

Between the exchange rate dip when the bank refunds happened and the cost of a Bank Transfer to reinstate our orders, many of us ended up paying close to $100 more than the initial sum already. Granted, that's not into OPT's pockets, but where my wallet is concerned it's still Pandora money.

 

[Trip]

Between the exchange rate dip when the bank refunds happened and the cost of a Bank Transfer to reinstate our orders, many of us ended up paying close to $100 more than the initial sum already. Granted, that's not into OPT's pockets, but where my wallet is concerned it's still Pandora money.

True

I got lucky with that though and paid with a bank transfer the first time so it didn't effect me. It only cost me £207.43 for a Pandora with standard 6 to 12 days shipping. I did pay for the extras though and paid into the dev fund to support OpenPandora. Kinda wished that I hadn't now.

 

[andmaz]

..have to add that I do not want OPT to fail at all but they certainly need to be 100% honest iro the number of extra Pandoras per week that they will be able to produce with the queue jumpers.

Its basically going to be no extra but OPT will then potentially make a profit then roll on Pandora 2.

If the initial idea is to limit the queue jumpers to 100 then that would be a reasonable compromise and would inject approx $17,000 of much needed additional funds.

It would be interesting to see how many would preorder now at $500 without the 1 week promise.

My thoughts on all this are all over the place at the moment but $500 (plus sales tax US) or £370 inc VAT UK is not an excessive amount for such a unique product that can be purchased immediately - its is better that price to OPT than EBAY but then what will EBAY sales now go for?

 

[mvickers03]

..have to add that I do not want OPT to fail at all but they certainly need to be 100% honest iro the number of extra Pandoras per week that they will be able to produce with the queue jumpers.

Its basically going to be no extra but OPT will then potentially make a profit then roll on Pandora 2.

If the initial idea is to limit the queue jumpers to 100 then that would be a reasonable compromise and would inject approx $17,000 of much needed additional funds.

It would be interesting to see how many would preorder now at $500 without the 1 week promise.

My thoughts on all this are all over the place at the moment but $500 (plus sales tax US) or £370 inc VAT UK is not an excessive amount for such a unique product that can be purchased immediately - its is better that price to OPT than EBAY but then what will EBAY sales now go for?

I agree with this 100% it's either this, or nobody gets any Pandora's and the team are left with mountains of debt, I understand people will be a little angry but it's not that bad really, 100 units is less than half of 1 weeks progress at the current rate. Plus nobody could of ever predicted the bad luck this project has had, and that bad luck has come at a price.

That relatively large chunk of money will hopefully cover the RMA's and get money back on track. I have considered buying a second Pandora at $500 to help support this project because I believe in it so much, at the moment it's not possible but if the offer is there in June/May I will have enough saved to buy another and will do so (if not I'll pay $500 for a second batch unit.)

I can't tell you how much fun I'v had with mine in the 8 months I'v had it but it is a lot.... PSX and Internet is in a good state at the moment and that on it's own will give me some good 100 titles I wish to play through at some point, let alone the other 15 or so good emulators available. there are also some very good native games like Pandora Panic and joust.

Edit: typo

 

[Trip]

I don't want the project to fail either but I will not support OpenPandora if they don't provide a good reason for doing what they did.

I supported the project because they made promises to the community to stand by the people that pre-ordered and they said that they were following open source ideology. What they have just done has broken those promises and a community based company that will screw over it's own community is worthless.

I once said that if it all went tits up I wouldn't be bothered about getting my money back. If it goes tits up now I'll more than likely sue Craigs shop for breaking the contract.

 

[BaDToaD]

I don't want the project to fail either but I will not support OpenPandora if they don't provide a good reason for doing what they did.

They did it so the Pandora can keep being produced beyond the current orders for batch 2 and to have a shot at a pandora 2 in the future.

Is that a good enough reason?

 

[Trip]

I don't want the project to fail either but I will not support OpenPandora if they don't provide a good reason for doing what they did.

They did it so the Pandora can keep being produced beyond the current orders for batch 2 and to have a shot at a pandora 2 in the future.

Is that a good enough reason?

No, not at all.

Seeing as though they said that batch 1 would be finished within the next 2 months anyway due to the board production speeding up, they could have done the same thing after the pre-orders.

They could have got people in from the forum again to help out and accomplished the same thing without screwing anyone over. I sent Craig a PM the last time they did that and told him that due to me currently being out of work, having 20+ years fixing and building electronics equipment and computers and having loads of family in Newcastle, I could easily do a couple of weeks helping out.

They could also have used the dev fund and paid it back in later.

They could have done a lot of things but they didn't even try.

 

[benji_stein]

I agree with this 100% it's either this, or nobody gets any Pandora's and the team are left with mountains of debt, I understand people will be a little angry but it's not that bad really, 100 units is less than half of 1 weeks progress at the current rate. Plus nobody could of ever predicted the bad luck this project has had, and that bad luck has come at a price.

Except for the fact that they never said it was just 100 units that they'd do. They said "they might not" not that they "would not". Given Craig talking, that's a world of difference.