Pandora 2 specifications and price

[Neelix]

I don't know how to get the DEL button to work. Other than that, everything is perfect.

Ctrl+ALT+BS utterly fails to reset X on the pandora. It does however succeed as DEL in some contexts. (including thunar where you can also shift it.)


- Neelix

 

[Grench]

...Wall of attempts to twist logic and deny facts...

...Wall of personal insults and vague attempts at trolling...

1. I have made the statement that microSD cards are dramatically slower in performance (GB/sec R&W) than equivalent era full size SD cards.


2. I have made the statement that microSD cards are more expensive than equivalent era full size SD cards.


3. I have given a clear example comparison of a bleeding edge microSDHC card and a bleeding edge full size SD card - and how the full size SD card bests it in every way but physical dimensions. The forefront of technology is relevant as we are discussing a future device.


4. I have examined the example counter argument example of a 32GB microSDHC and a 32GB SDHC that happen to have the same price. I found a flaw in the argument being that these were both very old and very very slow cards. Also, between the two cards in the counter-example, the full sized SDHC card was rated twice as fast as the microSD version.


5. An internal card slot's primary use is as a boot, swap and installed programs device. As such, it is critical that it have the highest performance possible.


I have a hard time understanding where the, "We want to go slower!" arguments come from. I've seen it both here with the microSD vs full size SD discussion as well as with Class 4 vs Class 10+ card usage.


The Pandora 2 needs to be as small a device as possible. Therefore it needs to leave out unneeded extras.


Full size SDHC cards are large enough in capacity, fast enough in performance and inexpensive enough that having a NAND drive on the device itself becomes redundant. That eliminates a component and raises an issue.


The issue with booting from an SD card is that the card then becomes non-removable. There is a fear that silly users will accidentally mechanically eject the card from the unit and crash the OS (and/or more) on their card. That is why several of us think that the 'boot card' should be hidden up behind the battery.


A 'boot card' should be a fast card. So far, no manufacturer makes a microSD card with equivalent performance to current full sized SD cards. I state that as a fact. You're all welcome to try to disprove it. I define performance as a combination of sustained read, sustained write, maximum capacity and $/GB. Yes, seek and other factors play a part in hard drive performance - but not so much when using solid state media.


If there is a full size, full USB 3.0 speed SDHC slot up behind the battery, then one of the two exterior SD card slots on the existing Pandora would become redundant.


If there were a microSD slot up behind the battery, then the two exterior slots are both needed. This is because the microSD port dictates the use of cards with inferior performance capabilites. One full size SD for booting and the other for data. This same reason, then, makes having a microSD slot itself redundant.


The most logical choice is to maintain at least two full size SDHC card slots - regardless of placement.


Placing one of the two, or potentially a third full size SDHC slot, internally to avoid accidental eject would be fine.


The use of microSD cards, in itself, would be a general mistake for this device. They are not appropriate to use as boot, swap or program storage due to their inferior performance properties.


If microSD is your preferred media type for interchangeability with a phone or other device, there are adapters that can break them out to the full size SD card dimensional spec. It still can't fix the microSD card's lack of performance.


So, I am asking, that we skip the microSD card spec entirely to avoid directly saddling this device with what is, at best, a performance bottleneck. At worst, microSD is wasted space (volume) and wasted costs.


Obviously your opinion may differ. The facts, though, remain constant.

 

[Exophase]

So your entire diatribe pretty much relies on this idea that microSD = slower, that you have pretty much no evidence for.


You also aren't showing evidence that for similar performance levels and similar capacities, except for the largest capacities, that microSD is more expensive. You just keep repeating these things as fact.


There's no logical reason for either of these things are true, yet you're burdening us with proving you wrong. At the very least offer a reasonable explanation.


In other words, put up or shut up.


The only thing you can point to is that there were some luxury cards (very high speed) outside the norm that hit SD first. I gave you a link showing that these are already becoming available for microSD. In fact, one is already out and you can see it's every bit as fast as the fastest SD you can buy: http://www.legitrevi...article/1972/2/


But ignoring these top few, which most people are NOT interested in spending the premium for (in fact most people will probably not want to replace the card and surely OPT won't ship with a luxury card - should we do a poll on this?) there is no general trend in performance pushing down microSD. They both follow a similar curve.


http://www.tomshardw...ce,3011-11.html


http://www.tomshardw...0-x64,2712.html

 

[slaeshjag]

What's wrong with it? I like it...

For instance, you have to press alot of keys to get letteres like ö ä ü ß and even more keys to get Ä Ö Ü, which are common letters in germany.

That's why I remapped ¥, F11 and F12. Those are to me worthless keys, that I can instead use to get åäö

 

[Farox]

just found this thread and voted ...


I'm sorry but if the next Pandora would cost more than 400Euro i'm out.... and i don't intend to leave this great community.

 

[Grench]

So your entire diatribe pretty much relies on this idea that microSD = slower, that you have pretty much no evidence for.

YOU already provided it. Look at the two cards that you listed links to earlier in the chain. The micro card is half as fast as the full size version.

You also aren't showing evidence that for similar performance levels and similar capacities, except for the largest capacities, that microSD is more expensive. You just keep repeating these things as fact.

Actually, I did. Please go re-read the chain if you would like.


Keeping things to cards recently released so that they at least have some form of modern technology:


SanDisk microSDXC 64GB UHS-I card is $68.


http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&q=64gb+microsdxc+class+10&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=948&bih=1100&safe=images&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=6052815411861126203&sa=X&ei=tBb2T7-bKeeY2wXr_-H-Bg&ved=0CGMQgggwAQ


SanDisk SDXC 64GB UHS-I card is $52.


http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&q=64gb+sdxc+class+uhs-I&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=948&bih=1100&safe=images&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=4035695010288877076&sa=X&ei=2Rb2T_27Koqy2QXc24HiBg&ved=0CGUQgggwAA#scoring=tp


Of course, don't bother with 128GB media - since there is no microSD equivalent to it yet.

There's no logical reason for either of these things are true, yet you're burdening us with proving you wrong. At the very least offer a reasonable explanation.

In other words, put up or shut up.

Been there done that - I've supplied data repeatedly to back up my claims. So far you've supplied nothing at all. microSD has always been 12-24 months behind SD cards in size, speed and cost decreases.

The only thing you can point to is that there were some luxury cards (very high speed) outside the norm that hit SD first. I gave you a link showing that these are already becoming available for microSD. In fact, one is already out and you can see it's every bit as fast as the fastest SD you can buy: http://www.legitrevi...article/1972/2/

So, you're upset with me for looking at the bleeding edge of today's media cards to help define the specification for a future device? Today's luxury cards are 2014's 'normal' or 'old' cards.


So to back up your argument that microSDXC is as good as SDXC you sent a link to a device that is not available to purchase yet? Nifty card - and at 16GB it would be almost useful someday.

But ignoring these top few, which most people are NOT interested in spending the premium for (in fact most people will probably not want to replace the card and surely OPT won't ship with a luxury card - should we do a poll on this?)

So - you think that people wouldn't be willing to pay more for better performance?


I guess all of us who signed up for the 1Ghz Pandora offer are all idiots.


The Pandora 2 is slated to be a @$700 device. Today's high end cards will be the 'reasonable' cards by then. Today's 'reasonable' will be the 'cheap junk' of 2014. For designing a future device over a year out it makes perfect sense to consider the bleeding edge of today, and then some, in defining it's specifications.


You seem to be taking the attitude that all the Pandora 2 has to support is your much lower expectations. Low end cards in a slow microSD port - fast enough for your game emulator should be fine. Right? Nobody will want to put an high $$$ card into their unit for playing emulated games after all.


Wrong. You will have the OPTION to put as cheap and as slow a card in your Pandora as you'd like - but please don't get in the way of allowing the device itself to have the capability of doing things beyond your needs. There are many of us using the Pandora as a general computing device. Speed, capacity and card price/GB count. It isn't just about booting the device.

... there is no general trend in performance pushing down microSD. They both follow a similar curve.

http://www.tomshardw...ce,3011-11.html


http://www.tomshardw...0-x64,2712.html

And wow - you just proved me right again with those two links.


Fastest microSD in the list reads at 22.8MB/s


Fastest SDXC in the list reads at 62.9MB/s


LOOK at the links you just provided. microSD IS consistently slower and smaller capacity than the contemporary full sized SD cards. Or are you now going to dismiss your own links/proof?

 

[Exophase]

I already said it in my post so I don't know why I'm bothering repeating it, but yes, right now there are more luxury/high-end cards available for full sized SD than microSD, although that's clearly changing soon (and definitely not with a latency of 12-24 years for the speed argument). The point is that today the mid-end, which reflects the vast majority of cards sold, is not lagging behind. And I have every reason to believe that that'll be the same next year and the year after - that microSD mid-end will be around the same as SD mid-end. The only reason the luxury cards may target full size first is because there's less demand for it at the moment for microSD, because most of the microSD devices can't make use of it. Going forward things are only going to shift more and more towards releasing those on microSD (as the Samsung card is already showing, and what do you mean "not available"? How do you think they reviewed it?) The idea that the luxury cards of today becoming the mid-end cards of tomorrow means that microSD will drift below that point at the mid-end is totally unsubstantiated.


Do you understand what I'm getting at here?


It'd be one thing if you said that you have doubts in microSD because you're used to the cards being worse, and that OPT should be careful about what they use for Pandora 2 down the road (I doubt the design is going to be anywhere close to locked at this level for a good while). But you're saying microSD will always suck and always be inferior. And you don't have any kind of technical argument for it.


I'm not going over the max capacity issue anymore. Full size SD cards can have larger capacity, that's obvious, I said that from the first post, you either care about it or you don't. You care. I don't think it matters enough. Stick with performance.


As for the whole "you'll accept anything that's fast enough for your game emulator" bit, that was extremely uncalled for. What I do or don't have program for the machine couldn't have the slightest bearing on anything I've said here.

 

[WizardStan]

So - you think that people wouldn't be willing to pay more for better performance?


I guess all of us who signed up for the 1Ghz Pandora offer are all idiots.

You aren't an idiot, just a minority. Expecting the mass to pick up the tab because you absolutely must have the fastest cutting edge is ludicrous. If there weren't a downside to have a full sized SD card I would agree with you 100%, but you are asking everyone to accept a not insignificant footprint increase just so that you personally can use your preference.


There's no point in discussing the merits of a pickup truck if your parking space is only big enough for a smartcar.

LOOK at the links you just provided. microSD IS consistently slower and smaller capacity than the contemporary full sized SD cards. Or are you now going to dismiss your own links/proof?

You're comparing SDXC UHS-I cards to the microSDHC Class 10 cards. Compare the Class 10 to Class 10 and they're within about 5% of speed and cost and that is easily enough for the vast majority of users. If you want a UHS-I speed card then you are free to spend the extra because you CAN get those in microSD format as well as full sized SD. You, the user wanting performance, pays the premium that the average user doesn't care about and can't actually afford. This converts into a savings of space on the board which benefits everyone.

 

[anexanhume]

For $700 here's what I expect:


Novathor A9600 level SoC (2.5 Ghz dual core cortex A15) with ImgTec PowerVR 6 'Rogue' GPU.


2 GB LPDDR3.


1280x720P screen. One X screen comes to mind.


Similar keymat and controls with backlighting.


Wifi N, Bluetooth 4.0 support.


HDMI support. For $700, you can afford licensing.


High quality case finish. Soft-touch comes to mind.

 

[Exophase]

Unfortunately you're going to be playing roulette with SoC since no matter how much they're willing to pay for them (within reason of course) some companies just won't fulfill an order for a few thousand. Dunno about STE, except that you wouldn't want NovaThor exactly because it's an SoC with integrated phone baseband. They are supposed to have ones without it though. Given their release performance so far it's hard to really hold my breath..


But they're the only ones who have announced a publicly available A15 + Rogue SoC so far. So it could be a while before there are any real options.


Personally I think one of the other A15 SoCs would be fine.. sure going with a monster next gen GPU would be cool but the GPU utilization on Pandora has been nothing to write home about, and even a pretty mundane GPU in 2013 will be vastly ahead of OMAP3530's. OMAP5's SGX544MP2 is looking to be easily over 10x more powerful, and whatever is in Exynos 5 will probably be competitive too.


It should go without saying, but for $700 I think it should have a multitouch screen and both Angstrom (or similar) and Android support out of the box. And preferably a nicer form factor than clamshell. Something that is more natural for touch-centric input. Also should have motion sensing and GPS.

 

[anexanhume]

I agree with your dual OS assessment. I also realize they have to be able to procure the SoCs, and since I don't know who will sell them, I'm assuming they can get anything.


I should note that the novathor a9600 has no baseband in it. ST is also hurting to sell some chips, not that it would drive a sale of 4 to 10k.


Exynos 5250 should be competitive, yes. The Mali GPU is a competent architecture. Tegra 4 should be competent too. OMAP 5 seems kind of old hat given iPad 3, but it's still a monster performer too.

 

[Exophase]

I read before that the "Nova" and "Thor" part were the main SoC and baseband lines respectively.. or something like that. Still, according to the wikipedia list (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NovaThor) A9600 is just "Nova".. which confuses me further since I've always seen it as part of the NovaThor line as I'm sure you have.. >_>


I get the feeling that STE is going to have a hard road actually bringing this to market, like usual. I'm surprised STMicro can actually manage 28nm on their own at all. If I were to guess I'd expect Exynos 5250 to hit the market in a real device first, then OMAP5. Whether or not OPT can actually get a hold of them is another story, although Samsung at least seems to have been willing to sell a small number of their SoCs if hackable enough to qualify as a dev kit.

 

[ekianjo]

It should go without saying, but for $700 I think it should have a multitouch screen and both Angstrom (or similar) and Android support out of the box. And preferably a nicer form factor than clamshell. Something that is more natural for touch-centric input. Also should have motion sensing and GPS.

-> is multitouch screen that necessary for a portable device that you already hold with BOTH hands ? even on a iPhone or Android Phone I almost never use my two hands at the same time because it's so unpractical. Unless you are thinking of the P2 as a tablet?


-> Android support out of the box : yeah, why not. But if that's the case, what's the point of even having another OS on that device, because you would start with almost no software on the other OS, and tons on apps available on Android. Who will support the other OS if most users use it as a Android device?


-> Instead of Angstrom, I think we could probably have Ubuntu or something a bit more like a full distribution on a P2, provided the screen has a slightly higher resolution and more RAM.


-> clamshell -> as you know there are patents that prevent nicer forms factors. Not sure we will be able to get anything else.


-> more natural for touch-centric input -> again, do you want the P2 to be a tablet, or a PSVita like ? Are the current Pandora users really annoyed by the fact they cannot run everything with their fingers ? As far as I know, most people don't care too much about the touch screen. Of course, if you are concerned about Android, it makes more sense.


-> motion sensor, GPS... -> mmm what for? You already have those in your phone anyway. Again, is that motivated by Android ?


-> you forgot to mention 3G, 3D screen, and vibrators, too just kidding.


Seriously, instead of spending tons of cash on small feature additions that end up costing a lot, I'd prefer to have big and nice features like a powerful processor, enough RAM and a good GPU, with HDMI output, to make sure you can run tons of software with it.


Instead of trying to have the Pandora a device that "does everything and even the coffee", it should be very good, extremely good at a few things. I prefer to have a P2 that does things that my Android phone CAN NEVER DO, instead of duplicating the exact same functions of every smartphone out there, whose price is going to drop year after year anyway.

 

[craigix]

For $700 here's what I expect:


Novathor A9600 level SoC (2.5 Ghz dual core cortex A15) with ImgTec PowerVR 6 'Rogue' GPU.


2 GB LPDDR3.


1280x720P screen. One X screen comes to mind.


Similar keymat and controls with backlighting.


Wifi N, Bluetooth 4.0 support.


HDMI support. For $700, you can afford licensing.


High quality case finish. Soft-touch comes to mind.

You will be pleased to know it will probably meet or exceed most of those specs.

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

now i cant friggin wait for the p2.Still will have my 1ghz pandy to keep me busy.

 

[fusion_power]

That's why I remapped ¥, F11 and F12. Those are to me worthless keys, that I can instead use to get åäö

This could be an option, but I need F11 for fullscreen in various programs.

You will be pleased to know it will probably meet or exceed most of those specs.

Better use cheaper components and make the device cheaper that way, brings much more customers. I'm sure, if the right hardware is choosen, we still have a much faster handheld, as long as it is a base that has very good SW compatibility and driver base. HW alone means nothing, it is the Software that makes a device good or bad. Well known C64 and Gameboy Effect. ^^

 

[craigix]

We don't want millions of customers, we want to produce the best possible handheld ever made, and keep it a niche, hacker/linux device (with Android support).


That is how we (the team) want to go ahead and I think it's the right way.


There is no way we can/will go back to making a cheap device.


PS: Any Pandora2 isn't going to show up until Christmas 2013 at the earliest.

 

[WizardStan]

-> Android support out of the box : yeah, why not. But if that's the case, what's the point of even having another OS on that device, because you would start with almost no software on the other OS, and tons on apps available on Android. Who will support the other OS if most users use it as a Android device?


-> Instead of Angstrom, I think we could probably have Ubuntu or something a bit more like a full distribution on a P2, provided the screen has a slightly higher resolution and more RAM.

Android doesn't do everything. A lot of us seriously prefer an actual multi-tasking desktop with full copies of firefox, open office, and the like. Far from the "no software" there are hundreds of apps and games already on the Pandora repo in easy to use PND format, and thousands more in the Angstrom repo if you want to install them. And if they go with Ubuntu (or really any well maintained flavour with a reasonable repository) then you will get the tens of thousands of linux applications that have been developed over the last couple of decades.

-> motion sensor, GPS... -> mmm what for? You already have those in your phone anyway. Again, is that motivated by Android ?


-> you forgot to mention 3G, 3D screen, and vibrators, too just kidding.

Motion sensors can be had for about $1-2, and the chip is small enough it can be fit almost anywhere: it's hard to come up with a convincing argument not to include it. Other than the antenna, the GPS is similarly flexible, although price can be a good reason to avoid it; on the other hand, with a $700 device, perhaps you can afford the extra $20 a GPS receiver would cost.


3G, on the other hand, involves a huge amount of R&D, and swathes of testing. They would almost certainly have to hire in a very expensive consultant (or entire firm) to help them get it right so it passes safety inspections. If you're planning to sell a million units, the cost balances out, and that research can typically be carried forward. If you are planning to sell 20'000 units, the cost per unit will be significantly higher.

 

[SNESFAN]

-> is multitouch screen that necessary for a portable device that you already hold with BOTH hands ? even on a iPhone or Android Phone I almost never use my two hands at the same time because it's so unpractical. Unless you are thinking of the P2 as a tablet?

agree, cool feature, but in this form factor you won't be using it much. my asus transformer with dock I very rarely use multi-touch due to the way you use/hold a laptop. This would be even more in that direction. I'm normally against resistive touch, but when it comes to things like scummvm and other accuracy dependant things, resistive is the way to go. While I still think capacitive it the best technology for touchscreen phones etc, they don't demand accuracy and you want something more durable than resistive touch. With the pandora, I haven't gotten a scratch yet and I'm pretty mean with some of my devices.

-> Android support out of the box : yeah, why not. But if that's the case, what's the point of even having another OS on that device, because you would start with almost no software on the other OS, and tons on apps available on Android. Who will support the other OS if most users use it as a Android device?

this has always been in the back of my mind as why people push so hard away from android, especially at the infancy of the pandora's current OS. I never understood why *some* people don't want another option (I understand lots of people support both). *some* people are all out against it, and I think, they think, it would gain too much popularity and take focus away from (in their opinion) what needs focused on.


I slowly but surely converting from android to a more true linux,as my favorite embeded operating system, and I see the need for it. I really think you need both for the pandora to be successful. Why you need android though is mainly 2 parts. first and most importantly, most people with the skill to port android from scratch, has no interest in android over a true linux envrionment, those that have much interest in it, don't really have the skill to do it correctly/completely. 2nd part, exactly as you said, there will be virtually no software at launch, or not mature fully optimized ports of existing software. Give the end users something to actually use while developers have time to finish their software/ports.


Once they see first hand that stuff performs better, and is more catered to the pandora with angstrom then they can make the choice themselves. Using one OS for stuff the other OS doesn't provide. Forcing their hand by not giving someone an alternative is extremely poor form. Android is a valid alternative for an OS that offers much in the way of commercial non open source software. (netflix, spotify, etc etc)

-> motion sensor, GPS... -> mmm what for? You already have those in your phone anyway. Again, is that motivated by Android ?


-> you forgot to mention 3G, 3D screen, and vibrators, too just kidding.

the 3g and 3d screen are excessive luxury items IMO, and really should be left out as they're not practical especially dealing with devices being sent to various parts of the world with different mobile technologies, and 3d is still very gimmicy even with owning several devices with that functionality... but the motion sensor, gps, and haptic feedback (vibrator lol) are all valid requests IMO. Having them and not needing them all the time is better than needing/wanting and not having. They're not that much more expensive and add lots to the functionality. Also if you do have android OS, there is lots of software that takes advantage of that hardware. But I suppose if you don't see the point in android then you won't see the point in adding that kinda functionality. A mobile device with the ability to show you where you're at, or where you might want to go is a silly idea anyway.

I prefer to have a P2 that does things that my Android phone CAN NEVER DO, instead of duplicating the exact same functions of every smartphone out there, whose price is going to drop year after year anyway.

I'm not going to disrespect you, but this, especially considering what you just said of the previous features being pointless, is extremely hypocritical. The reason your phone isn't a clamshell with game controls and keyboard is because most manufacturers see those features as pointless as they only fill a small niche of people who want them versus those that don't care/want something like that. The actual guts of your smartphone are basically the same as the pandora down to the processor (as I'm sure you are aware) if someone were to take the time/love on your phone, as they do with the pandora, there's a good chance it could run the very same software (in either direction)


What makes the pandora magical to us enthusiasts is the features that most manufacturers of mobile devices leave out. Putting a big stigma of "THIS IS A PHONE, NOTHING ELSE! EVAR!!!!!" and the pandora being "THIS IS TOTALLY A MINI LAPTOP AND NOTHING LIKE THIS CRAP SMARTPHONE" when in reality, the line between the two is so transparent I actually laugh when people try to separate the two so much.


if I were to swap the "3g" or cellular radio of my phone, with game controls, and flash angstrom to my phone... it would be a Pandora.. (I'm aware there's more to it than the waving the magic wand) everything else is the same basically... my phone has a OMAP 3xxx with SGX 530 GPU and a keyboard 3600mah battery, similar resolution, the whole 9 yards. The only difference is.. the phone also has stuff like gps, haptic feedback, dual touch etc etc.

 

[Exophase]

-> is multitouch screen that necessary for a portable device that you already hold with BOTH hands ? even on a iPhone or Android Phone I almost never use my two hands at the same time because it's so unpractical. Unless you are thinking of the P2 as a tablet?
-> Android support out of the box : yeah, why not. But if that's the case, what's the point of even having another OS on that device, because you would start with almost no software on the other OS, and tons on apps available on Android. Who will support the other OS if most users use it as a Android device?


-> Instead of Angstrom, I think we could probably have Ubuntu or something a bit more like a full distribution on a P2, provided the screen has a slightly higher resolution and more RAM.


-> clamshell -> as you know there are patents that prevent nicer forms factors. Not sure we will be able to get anything else.


-> more natural for touch-centric input -> again, do you want the P2 to be a tablet, or a PSVita like ? Are the current Pandora users really annoyed by the fact they cannot run everything with their fingers ? As far as I know, most people don't care too much about the touch screen. Of course, if you are concerned about Android, it makes more sense.

Craig is very intent on making Android a first class option for the device. I agree that this will be useful. But without multitouch that is comfortable to use it is going to be extremely hobbled.


No, of course I don't want Pandora 2 to be a tablet. Frankly I don't actually "know" that there are patents preventing any design that isn't a clamshell, this is simply OPT's claim.. while I'm sure there really are at least some patents that must be avoided I'm not convinced that they can't find something that'll work. Surely a lot of patents wouldn't extend to devices that they're nowhere close to competing with. IMO OPT should get a patent lawyer to help them figure out their options on this.


The Android vs Angstrom (or other) argument has been done to death, but the bottom line is that a lot of people find value in making both heavily supported. You wouldn't start with almost no software if it's compatible with Pandora 1 software, which is fairly realistic. Probably a lot of devs, especially those writing or porting C/C++ code, will prefer to release for Angstrom and not Android, while Android will be there for all of the devs who aren't targeting Pandora specifically at all.


Angstrom vs Ubuntu is kind of a side note. But if they go with Ubuntu I hope they include alternate user interfaces because I loathe Unity and I don't seem to be alone. Sticking with XFCE wouldn't be a bad choice, it doesn't get that many complaints right now, and of course they can continue to provide minimenu.

-> motion sensor, GPS... -> mmm what for? You already have those in your phone anyway. Again, is that motivated by Android ?
-> you forgot to mention 3G, 3D screen, and vibrators, too just kidding.

What do you mean what for? They're really cheap and useful. Yes, it's partially motivated by making the Android part of it at least an attempt at being a serious implementation. But they can be used with lots of things.

Seriously, instead of spending tons of cash on small feature additions that end up costing a lot, I'd prefer to have big and nice features like a powerful processor, enough RAM and a good GPU, with HDMI output, to make sure you can run tons of software with it.

Don't know why you assume they'll cost a lot. You're going to get what you get with the SoC and you'll be stuck with it, no matter how much money you'd like them to throw at it. There are practical limitations to how much RAM you can use that may also be a lot lower than you think. HDMI is a given. No one is saying to compromise on any of this stuff but we're talking about a $700 device. You shouldn't assume every feature it has that you don't care about is a compromise to features that you do.


And don't tell me "just your phone." I don't even have a smartphone (and for others who do, I'm sure they don't always want to switch to using it). If I'm using a Pandora and it's useful for these things I will want to continue using it.