News from the meeting at GC

[bzar]

And for everyone who don't want to see any critical questions on an project with more than one year delay and just praise anything regardless what: You harm the whole project, not me!

It's not that we (at least I) don't want to see critical questions. It's that your questions seem to ignore the "stuff happens" aspect of any development project. Generally any product is released when it's ready or it's released unfinished. We want to see this thing released as soon as possible too, but "asking critical questions" that are not constructive help no one.

As for "just praising regardless what", we are just glad to see this project moving on and overcoming hurdles. Few if any of us have any idea how many obstacles there are in designing and preparing production for such a product. Any step forward is good and is celebrated because it's one step less ahead and one more small victory for the team making the Pyra. We commend the effort, skill and perserverance required for the step, not how it compares to any self-defined wishful schedule we might have.

 

[Xcl4m4t10n]

Just for clarification of those with asperger: My last comment was sarcasm.

 

[Swordfish II]

Well, i just asked a critical question. Maybe there is a very good reason, maybe not.
I have much understanding for EvilDragon. But that's not the point.
Why should anyone buy an already old device? Not many will buy it if the development takes longer and longer and longer and longer...
I will have my pyra anyway, but i don't think i am the average consumer of such a device.

And for everyone who don't want to see any critical questions on an project with more than one year delay and just praise anything regardless what: You harm the whole project, not me!

@EvilDragon: Is everything ordered now?

I still use my Pandora everyday. I don't care how old something is I am just concerned with utility.

 

[Binky]

Why should anyone buy an already old device?

Because they don't see modernity as the be-all and end-all of consumer electronics.

Some people, myself included, see important merits in the Pyra's design and software environment that are lacking in other products.
Other don't. Those people are welcome to buy some other device instead. Or no device at all.

It's better that people buy some other device that meets their needs, than buy a Pyra if it doesn't.

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

Its true. Some folk will look at the older soc and balk I suppose. However we got a lot of juice from the pandora in the long run. I hope for something similar here.

But the communnity aspect also appeals. With devs improving things and the helpful nature of this forum.
Its understandable for people to worry about delays but I think it will be worth it in the end.

 

[Black Sliver]

Well, with laser-drilled microvias and via-in pad at those densities... It's a bit above the ordinary.

Not all companies make µVias with laser (Yes, there are drills that thin!) Anyway, either they have to throw half of the PCBs into the trash after inspection (price x2) or they use machines (and drills) twice as expansive (machine time*cost x2 = price x2).

 

[Grench]

So 'more current' SoC modules exist. That is largely irrelevant unless someone has incorporated them into a clam shell handheld with the entire Pyra feature set.

The Pyra has a combination of features that is unique. There are devices out there that do portions of that feature set, but nothing I have seen combines them all. That makes those devices easier to build and cheaper (per device), but does not result in something that can replace the Pyra in it's niche.

Assuming that the Pyra succeeds, definition of which can only be determined by ED himself, it may make sense to work on a subsequent and updated SoC board. Lucky for us, hypothetically being able to maybe swap in an updated SoC at some undetermined future time, has been thought through. Before that can happen, though, the Pyra needs to sell many thousands of units. The faster those many thousands of units sell, the more likely an updated future SoC would exist. So, if your objective is to have a Pyra with 'Moar Powar!', then you should encourage more people to consider purchasing one in it's existing specification.

 

[Black Sliver]

I thought it was only 8.

It was increased from planned 8 to actual 10 for the first prototype, because routing was more complex than expected. But seems like The other 2L were added because of the supply problems, totally forgot about those.

So, if your objective is to have a Pyra with 'Moar Powar!', then you should encourage more people to consider purchasing one in it's existing specification.

Sadly, lots of people use this as a reference nowadays, but If I (or you) remember back, *regular* utility applications (now called apps™) could run on ANY device (e.g. single core Pentium, 600MHz). The reason for this is that there is more horse power available, so *regular* applications use more horse power without any benefit to the user, so devices need to get faster. The best example is Windows 10//WPF/Metro based on .net 4.x, where Microsoft decided to reduce visual complexity (and definition), but added a lot of time-consuming animations and loads everything async with magic inbetween resulting in a (nicely animated, fading) loading circle with no indication of progress or error... to display static information instead of the wallpaper.

For this kind of sh*t, you obviously want your device to be an octacore with 4GHz, so the loading circle disappears faster. People have to realize that software is only that sh*tty because their/modern devices allows it to be.

Same goes for Gnome3, Web 5.0 and probably also for the latest KDE. Never ever put loading times, animations and "ease of development" beofre UX ffs.

 

[Trebuchette]

At this point It will be pretty difficult to sell a dual core A15 equipped device, in the middle of 2017.

I mean, the 3DS' hardware was old when it released back in 2011, and they're still selling great in 2017 - even the New 3DS is nowhere near modern internals. I don't really think hardware age is going to be an issue.

 

[logenkain]

I mean, the 3DS' hardware was old when it released back in 2011, and they're still selling great in 2017 - even the New 3DS is nowhere near modern internals. I don't really think hardware age is going to be an issue.

It seems like a sound argument until we remember that Nintendo is Nintendo.

People buy the Nintendo brand for kids. Kids to adults want the Nintendo brand. And let's not forget that the New 3DS is a third the price of the Pyra.

I doubt many other brands could have gotten away with what Nintendo has been doing. Even if someone big like TI had made the 3DS, I doubt it would have sold well.

So, in our case, we have old(ish) hardware, no real brand recognition, and it costs more than any modern gaming console. Most people dropping by the project who don't fit within the target niche is probably just going to pass on by without a second though.

However, despite looking like it is trying to be a gaming device, I think the biggest converts will be older folks (30+) who want to play retro games they remember as kids, and techies who, like me, simply drool over the idea of an actually useful computer that can fit in a pocket.

So, yea, I'm sure hardware age, combined with the price, will turn a lot of people off, but for people who have always dreamed of having a device like this will be willing to fork over the dough

 

[PowerGod]

At the end of the day it's all about the contents...

Even the most technological advanced super computer gifted for free can be useless if it contains only an ASM compiler and you are not a programmer... in that case even a Tamagotchi could be 100 times better

 

[sulu]

I think the biggest converts will be older folks (30+) who [..] simply drool over the idea of an actually useful computer that can fit in a pocket.

Thank you very much for making me feel old by pointing out why I pre-ordered a Pyra!

 

[remjey]

This is my reason for wanting a Pyra.

 

[erico]

I find
"I think the biggest converts will be older folks (30+) who [..] simply drool over the idea of an actually useful computer that can fit in a pocket."
to be the best pandora/pyra description so far. Should be marketed quite that way.

 

[ible]

good thing i'm turning 30 soon, otherwise i wouldn't be in the target demographic.

 

[rygD]

i see, yes, the good-cop bad-cop routine.

I wonder what the average Pyra consumer is like. The ones I know about seem to be rather different from each other.

 

[kabaiakh]

Just for clarification of those with asperger: My last comment was sarcasm.

162/200 aspie quizz score here && AFAIC, clarification was not needed.
;=ppp

 

[netcat]

This is my reason for wanting a Pyra.

no pdaXrom / cacko?
i am dissapoint

 

[PowerGod]

This is my reason for wanting a Pyra.

View attachment 29996

Fock the Pyra !! Now I want this too !!
What is it ??
Seems to me that the display could be turned around ?!

 

[netcat]

Fock the Pyra !! Now I want this too !!
What is it ??
Seems to me that the display could be turned around ?!

sharp zaurus
japanese PDA that ran Linux
hackable
mine totally came to life when I put gcc on it
complete UNIX palmtop workstation
unsurpassed for a decade