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[conso]

I'd really prefer to have no silkscreening. Most labels are totally nonsense, anyway. Only labels that make sense to me are those for the LEDs. Strangely, I find those the most disturbing :/

Do how you please, but deliver asap.

 

[GPJosh]

Taking a look at the previous silkscreening, it seems like the best compromise would be (if the silkscreening doesn't work out again) to just silkscreen the "First Batch" onto the 1st batch Pandoras. That way:
1) Collector types would be happy
2) People screaming "ship!" would be appeased

As long as silkscreening doesn't delay the pandora, it doesn't really matter. Otherwise I'm with jumpman on this one, people seem to be running out of patience and even with all the posting the devs have been doing recently, it can only hold back the uglyness of hypothetical arguements (hello OCing to 800mhz, silkscreening, and WiFI driver progress) for so much longer.

 

[TaG]

F*** this! Without screenprinting the "1" and "2" on the front I might never be able to use this thing.


:lol:

 

[ste_167]

You know, I think it actually looks better without the silkscreen! Although the 5V positive might be useful in years to come when you find your old dusty Pandora in the attic and need to source a power supply!

 

[mitosis]

/me sighs, wonders why he bothers, sticks foot in mouth...

You've got to be kidding me. All of the waiting will be for nothing if your Pandora doesn't have a silkscreen, a relatively minor aesthetic feature? Talk about blowing the ordeal out of proportion.

It would certainly make me feel worse about the wait... there's been more trivial things creating delays than this, so why this?

You say not to listen to the "loud minority", but all of this is just you speaking for yourself. Unless you can SHOW that your opinion isn't itself the minority one then you have to step aside and accept what evidence actually exists. There have been a lot of mentions of these silent offboard/lurking majority and it's entirely too convenient that their desires always seem to represent those of the one invoking them.

Yeah, you're right. I shouldn't have said that. The way you're picking apart my post, taking every detail for it's most ABSOLUTE possible meaning, I can't say I wouldn't do the same. I just didn't mean it that way and I definitely wasn't trying to invoke the mythical silent majority for my own desires... I was simply pointing that out... because it's true, of ANY argument, that there is a silent majority out there. Notice that was a new paragraph, with a new topic sentence, not directly related to my agenda and only there to provoke some critical thinking.

The silent majority that I was referring to was for a more broad topic, the topic of rushing these final steps vs polish. I've noticed that in the past months, more and more people have been increasingly active in the forums who are only there to put pressure on the devs to "hurry up already". There's probably about 50-150 of these people who are constantly moaning at every revision and delay, and maybe around that same number of people who are active on the boards who DON'T complain. But all these people on the forum, they only add up to a small portion of the 4000 orders... MAYBE 10% of the people who ordered a Pandora come on here and post... MAYBE... but I'll bet it's less.

So these remaining 3500 people... how do THEY feel about this? THEY are the silent majority to which I refer. To be fair, we've gotta give both sides of the argument equal representation here and figure that they get 1750 people each.

You could argue that someone not prepared to give up a silkscreen is someone who didn't understand what they were getting themselves into as well. Of course, that's all meaningless, because there's no objective sense of what this all "is about." No, I don't think it's reasonable to ship without a silkscreen, but I also don't think it was reasonable for shipping to be delayed 1.5 years.

Touché... but, you could argue that someone not expecting a project like this to take 3 years doesn't have experience in the manufacturing industry. I don't think very many people did, and I don't fault you for it... I mean, neither did the Open Pandora Team right? As someone who has worked in manufacturing for years, at a company where we do almost everything in-house, I will be amazed if this device comes out in 2 months (from now).

I guess I should specify what I mean by "almost everything in house". I mean we only outsource 2 things: injection molded cases and printed circuit boards. Sound familiar? Yeah. Additionally, our entire workforce is in one building... that means from beginning to end, the product is being manufactured under tight control... from R&D, planning, engineering, prototyping, manufacturing, testing, final assembly, final testing, and shipping... all under one roof. We have 4 pick-and-place machines for surface mount components and two for through-hole. I'm sure we have all the exact equipment that plant in Texas has, plus more maybe. It's all standard equipment that pretty much every small manufacturing plant uses, I can just guess based off of what MW and ED have said about the Texas plant that the equipment there will be the same as what everyone else uses.

At my company... where ALL of what the OP team is trying to accomplish (obviously different products tho) is happening under one roof, with a PAID workforce of about 120 people, and WITHOUT international barriers to hinder communication or add delays from shipping between devs or waiting on email responses to come to a consensus, products STILL take a couple years to fully come to fruition. So I entered into this project KNOWING that the Open Pandora Team had NO CLUE what they were getting themselves into, time wise.

Two months?!??!! PSH!! Yeah right they should said two YEARS from the beginning... if only they had known what it's REALLY like to bring a product all the way from concept to market. If only they had known then they could have said two years in the beginning and then they would have been under a LOT less stress right now... poor guys. Then when it came out after 1 year 11 months they could have been thrilled that it was early =D

A few weeks (or months?) might be proportionally small compared to the amount of delay thus far, but each upset is wearing down a userbase that is approaching their limits. With a lot of "almost theres" and "small" delays taking much longer than expected it's a hard psychological blow for people to endure one they don't really have to, and one coming when things are this "close" certainly doesn't make it easier.

Regarding user base wearing down... see above about the silent majority. Sure, a loudly complaining portion are wearing down... but are the rest of us?

Maybe officially Open Pandora shouldn't compromise on design, but if they want to go with majority desire on this one then that's probably going to be to shelve the silkscreen and save as much face as possible on release time.

To quote a wise person here, unless you can SHOW that your opinion isn't itself the minority one then you have to step aside and accept what evidence actually exists.



aaah... right?

*lando-thums-up*

To ME, the evidence points at a hundred or so people who want things rushed, and thus are loudly complaining about it on the forums... but that doesn't prove anything about what the silent majority actually want.

 

[lintendo]

What where the problems with the first silk screening test, ive read this thread and searched the forum but no closer to the answer, im just curious, for me i would love to have my pandora arrive with first batch and full silk screening, but i geuss if theres none atleast i geuss ill be spraying it black with a blue 2 tone effect and a blue pandora logo and many many layers of some form of clear coat ahh i can dream.

 

[mindlord]

What where the problems with the first silk screening test, ive read this thread and searched the forum but no closer to the answer, im just curious, for me i would love to have my pandora arrive with first batch and full silk screening, but i geuss if theres none atleast i geuss ill be spraying it black with a blue 2 tone effect and a blue pandora logo and many many layers of some form of clear coat ahh i can dream.

Many of the labels are clearly not aligned properly.

 

[mali]

The silkscreening wasn't aligned properly and they used a wrong file(too old).

 

[Awakening]

I want silkscreen myself. But it doesn't really have to be more then what's on the hinge, so we know what the heck the LEDs are for and get the first batch logo. I also want my Pandora ASAP so it really depends on how long we have to wait.

If you think about it, the silkscreen is good for when the Pandora is reviewed. No one is going to complain about it if it looks good but I'm pretty sure reviewers will complain or at least mention it if there is none.

 

[kingoddball]

Some of the writing (i.e First Batch) was not lined up correctly If I recall.
Other than that - It was fine. They did manage to get the licence to use the official BlueTooth logo as well not long ago! andora2ut4:

 

[Exophase]

It would certainly make me feel worse about the wait... there's been more trivial things creating delays than this, so why this?

What more trivial things? Or better stated, what more optional things?

The silent majority that I was referring to was for a more broad topic, the topic of rushing these final steps vs polish. I've noticed that in the past months, more and more people have been increasingly active in the forums who are only there to put pressure on the devs to "hurry up already". There's probably about 50-150 of these people who are constantly moaning at every revision and delay, and maybe around that same number of people who are active on the boards who DON'T complain. But all these people on the forum, they only add up to a small portion of the 4000 orders... MAYBE 10% of the people who ordered a Pandora come on here and post... MAYBE... but I'll bet it's less.

So these remaining 3500 people... how do THEY feel about this? THEY are the silent majority to which I refer. To be fair, we've gotta give both sides of the argument equal representation here and figure that they get 1750 people each.

That's strange, you seem to be going from suggesting that the silence of the majority reflects their opinion, to suggesting that those here are actually statistically representative.

Of course, the numbers you came up with are just your gut feel, but you can't say that the people "okay" with waiting and the people "not okay" directly map into the groups that are okay with silkscreen being applied and those who aren't. So far I think there have been more that are okay with it being removed than those who aren't. And if your argument of silence giving consent is true then the majority is okay with it as well.

So why is your opinion that the silkscreen must stay worth considering?

Touché... but, you could argue that someone not expecting a project like this to take 3 years doesn't have experience in the manufacturing industry. I don't think very many people did, and I don't fault you for it... I mean, neither did the Open Pandora Team right? As someone who has worked in manufacturing for years, at a company where we do almost everything in-house, I will be amazed if this device comes out in 2 months (from now).

I didn't say that I thought that that their original timescale was realistic. I said that being 1.5 years on a product you've taken preorders for is "not okay."

I guess I should specify what I mean by "almost everything in house". I mean we only outsource 2 things: injection molded cases and printed circuit boards. Sound familiar? Yeah. Additionally, our entire workforce is in one building... that means from beginning to end, the product is being manufactured under tight control... from R&D, planning, engineering, prototyping, manufacturing, testing, final assembly, final testing, and shipping... all under one roof. We have 4 pick-and-place machines for surface mount components and two for through-hole. I'm sure we have all the exact equipment that plant in Texas has, plus more maybe. It's all standard equipment that pretty much every small manufacturing plant uses, I can just guess based off of what MW and ED have said about the Texas plant that the equipment there will be the same as what everyone else uses.

At my company... where ALL of what the OP team is trying to accomplish (obviously different products tho) is happening under one roof, with a PAID workforce of about 120 people, and WITHOUT international barriers to hinder communication or add delays from shipping between devs or waiting on email responses to come to a consensus, products STILL take a couple years to fully come to fruition. So I entered into this project KNOWING that the Open Pandora Team had NO CLUE what they were getting themselves into, time wise.

It's funny you say that, because OP has painted a picture that without this problem with the banks, that problem with the manufacturing plant being in China, etc etc things really wouldn't have taken this long. Although I'm really not sure why such a thing would take 2 years. I'm at a company on a more demanding contract (particular with regard to verification) with with a work force more similar in size to OP's than 120 people, and we're still not slated for the timescale OP is.

Two months?!??!! PSH!! Yeah right they should said two YEARS from the beginning... if only they had known what it's REALLY like to bring a product all the way from concept to market. If only they had known then they could have said two years in the beginning and then they would have been under a LOT less stress right now... poor guys. Then when it came out after 1 year 11 months they could have been thrilled that it was early =D

If they said two years then they never would have gotten 4000 pre-orders. That would have painted the project as barely started. Without pre-order money this never would have happened. Their "optimism" back then was fully necessary for the project.

Regarding user base wearing down... see above about the silent majority. Sure, a loudly complaining portion are wearing down... but are the rest of us?

Do you honestly think it's normal not to feel worn down after waiting for a product you've paid for that's this overdue?

To quote a wise person here, unless you can SHOW that your opinion isn't itself the minority one then you have to step aside and accept what evidence actually exists.

First of all, it's not my opinion. I don't care about the silkscreen OR the release date.

Fact is, OP has stated that they're going forward without silkscreen if it means more delays. They could be doing this because of these "loud" people, but maybe they themselves are tired of all of the delays and the money it's costing them. So for you to make any kind of point in pleading with them not to you have to show that you're representing a statistically meaningful opinion.

To ME, the evidence points at a hundred or so people who want things rushed, and thus are loudly complaining about it on the forums... but that doesn't prove anything about what the silent majority actually want.

That's why it's "evidence" and not "proof." Weigh the evidence of people wanting it w/o silkscreen and now vs wanting it with at the expense of "a delay." These "100" loud opinions might not be a lot, but it's far more than your loud opinion..

 

[Asiyura]

I personally would like to have some kind of silkscreening, at least the leds and the first batch (yep, I'm one of those collector maniac).
If it means I'll get the pandora 1 week later, or so, I can do with it.
Long ago I wanted to buy the GP32, but my funds were not high enough.
I've waited till now to get something similar, I can continue to wait just a bit more

 

[gibberish]

right now i couldnt give a crap if the cases came out candy floss pink.
just ship the bloody thing, for crying out loud.

 

[juniorm33]

I'm sure one of the many poles could be used as proof.
We need a new vid to get everyone all hyped and release some of the tension around here

 

[r00tw00t]

I know how this is going to end. They are going to go for the silkscreen, and every silkscreen fanboy will piss their pants of joy.

But suddenly a update from the team: "Oh no. We have ran into trouble. We have to do this and that. It will only take a few days."

And days becomes a week, a week becomes weeks and a month.... ZZZzzzZzz for what? Something that doesn't serve any purpose at all.

 

[mitosis]

Really I don't think there's any getting through to you about what I actually mean when I say things, so I'm just gonna forget about this... I mean, most of what you say to me could just be reworded and said about all your arguments and vice-versa... all of what I've said above doesn't necessarily reflect my personal opinions either. I'll bet IRL we'd be bestest friends if we knew each other =D The biggest problem about the internet is that everyone's reading and writing comprehension levels are different and a large amount of the meaning behind what we all say is lost in all this text.

Do you honestly think it's normal not to feel worn down after waiting for a product you've paid for that's this overdue?

F*** no! lol, I drive my wife CRAAAZY with all my babbling about the Pandora... typical conversation between mitosis and wife upon waking up every morning goes like this...

me: "PANDORAAaAAA~!!!!!!!!"
wife: "ow stop yelling in my ear"

I'm going NUTS over here =D

First of all, it's not my opinion. I don't care about the silkscreen OR the release date.

Same here... granted I want the silkscreen, but I'll love my Pandora all the same... in fact the notion of NOT having a silkscreen is starting to grow on me the more and more I debate it. I'm just trying to interject some additional perspective that's typically lacking in these forums lately.

That's why it's "evidence" and not "proof." Weigh the evidence of people wanting it w/o silkscreen and now vs wanting it with at the expense of "a delay." These "100" loud opinions might not be a lot, but it's far more than your loud opinion..

Hey man... this guy named Exophase asked for "evidence" and not "proof"... need I quoteth him again?

 

[mitosis]

I'm sure one of the many poles could be used as proof.
We need a new vid to get everyone all hyped and release some of the tension around here

The polls are useless! They don't factor in the mysterious silent majority! *ooooooh and other spooky ghost noises here* The only way one of those polls could be useful is if the OP team assembled a list of all the email addresses of all the order numbers and sent out a registration form that allowed you to tie a forum account to an order number and then create a restricted poll that only allows verified order-number-holding accounts to vote in it... in other words, not gonna ever happen... oh well.

I know how this is going to end. They are going to go for the silkscreen, and every silkscreen fanboy will piss their pants of joy.

But suddenly a update from the team: "Oh no. We have ran into trouble. We have to do this and that. It will only take a few days."

And days becomes a week, a week becomes weeks and a month.... ZZZzzzZzz for what? Something that doesn't serve any purpose at all.

That's RIGHT~! /me shakes fist

No really, it's for aesthetics... it's about making friends jealous, didn't you get the memo?

This debate had moved on to the non-serious for me, cease not-ignoring me immediately!

edited: for more smileys <_<

 

[mali]

Poles can be used to persuade.

 

[Asiyura]

Poles are great when girls dance using it.

 

[Exophase]

I'll bet IRL we'd be bestest friends if we knew each other =D

And you being 98 years old is all the more interesting. Too bad you live so far way