Name of the extra modifier (Fn/Meta/Sym/...)

[bzar]

I think its more fruitful to see what options people activly dislike.  Take AltGr away from anyone who knows how to use a keyboard and they will get annoyed quickly.

While to most a redundant key, it is to some, crucially important.

Yes, take it away from an existing layout and I get annoyed. Don't include it in a new layout and I don't.

 

[FBnil]

I think we voted for it to stay most silimar to Pandora. Fn is how it is called in OP and the pandora key, just like the win-key, opens up a menu. similar. clear.

I would it also want to work as on the pandora, being able to not keep it pressed while pressing the other keys. And able to lock into it when pressing it twice.

Did you know the Lenovo's also have a FuNction key?

http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/~/media/Images/MigratedAssets/pc/support/site_wss/x/x60_tablet_fn_key.ashx?w=100&h=100

 

[levi]

For the record, I don't seem to be able to press Fn twice to lock it on my pandora. It's still sticky, so one press will make the next keypress emit it's fn symbol, but so does two presses, and it doesn't remain in Fn-mode after the first press of another key.


It's not something I'm that bothered about on Pandora, but it's less than ideal that it's printed on the keymat yet doesn't appear to work (same with BS/Del/Ins I guess). I hope the same won't happen with the Pyra.

 

[_wb_]

Sorry to gravedig this 7-month old poll, but this is a topic that is being discussed again in some of the keyboard threads, so I thought maybe some people want to vote if they didn't already, or modify their vote based on some of the recent discussion.

I personally had "Meta", "Sym" and "Pyra" as acceptable choices, and "Pyra" as preferred one, but meanwhile I've changed my opinion: I now think "Pyra" is not a good name for the modifier, since it makes more sense to put the Pyra logo on "Super" (Windows logo key), and not have any key labeled "Pyra". So I changed my vote accordingly.

 

[Grench]

Sorry to gravedig this 7-month old poll, but this is a topic that is being discussed again in some of the keyboard threads, so I thought maybe some people want to vote if they didn't already, or modify their vote based on some of the recent discussion.

I personally had "Meta", "Sym" and "Pyra" as acceptable choices, and "Pyra" as preferred one, but meanwhile I've changed my opinion: I now think "Pyra" is not a good name for the modifier, since it makes more sense to put the Pyra logo on "Super" (Windows logo key), and not have any key labeled "Pyra". So I changed my vote accordingly.

Thank you for bringing this out.  I too had Pyra as my top choice, but now feel that Fn or Meta are better solutions and that calling this functional AltGr is simply not acceptable as AltGr has other very specific meanings.

 

[comradekingu]

And hopefully now people stop that calling something AltGr when it isnt.

Taking away what AltGr does, has adverse effects. There is an obvious fix to this, and its the good ol' AltGr

Edit: It doesnt make sense to group AltGr in with meta, because then you dont have

AltGr+buttons that hold F-keys.

Shift+Fkeys

And you dont have AltGr+letters

Shift+AltGr+letters

Ive even seen AltGr implemented on top of that, which makes no sense, because now you have two conflicting concepts

And you dont even save a modifier-button...

 

[Neelix]

*rereads poll options* F-ing? Seriously? I know that all the arguing about what to call the key can be frustrating, but there's no need for that kind of language.

- Neelix

 

[comradekingu]

There is nothing wrong with F   -ing, you are projecting But yes, i changed it. Along with making F-keys optional, meta is now a fully unencumbered key.

It can be used for mediakeys, Fkeys, printscreen or compose.

 

[WizardStan]

Why are they called Finger is they don't F-ing?

 

[rygD]

I went with "Meta".  Now do we go with the word or symbol.  I am fine with either.

My second, unlisted, favorite is "IDGAF".  "Any" is good for me too (if it can function alone when needed as an Any key).

I am open to calling it anything that isn't the name for a key with specific functions that this key will not have.

Why are they called Finger is they don't F-ing?

There they go.

 

[erico]

I didn´t read it all, but a pyra logo could do fine on the modifier.

 

[thatgui]

I didn´t read it all, but a pyra logo could do fine on the modifier.

As the Pyra logo is already (at least for now) on one of they keys between the nubs, it would create quite some confusion, I think.

Anyway, kept my vote, but (as probably 75% of the more activate board members) have stopped reading keyboard threads - they just go round in circles, even for this board (and I usually like it for that fact) this is already beyond the usual "sillyness": So Fn or Meta (or whatever) is ok, as long as the colors match (which should be a light orange tone, which I discovered on a recently seen Dell laptop). I would stay away from terms that have a clear usage on standard keyboards like "AltGr" - its already confusing to adapt to a different keyboard layout, having different "modifier mechanisms" would only add to the confusion without any real advantage to outweigh that.

 

[_jr_]

I'd like your capability to know what is written somewhere without reading it.

 

[levi]

I don't personally understand the AltGr issue for some people, but then it's only recently I've had a keyboard with such a key labelled on it, and as far as I can tell it's not mapped to anything on my current key mappings, so it's safe to say I've never used it.

But going by what wikepedia says, it's designed to enable you to type the extra symbols which are printed on the keyboard.  So it suggests to me that as long as things are printed there, that's how you get them.  And since most of the keyboard layouts have symbols in different shifted and non-shifted positions to any common full-sized layout, if I can cope with those in unusual places I'd suggest users of AltGr symbols can also learn.

But as I say, I've never learned or needed to learn to use it, living in an anglophone country (I use the compose key on the rare occasions I need to type a foreign word), so perhaps my reasoning is flawed.

 

[rygD]

I use the compose key on the rare occasions I need to type a foreign word

Like many of my countrymen I just misspell it in a way that looks similar.  I also misuse some words, and mispronounce others, and not just those that aren't "American".  For example "pin" and "pen" sound the same out of my mouth, and sound the way that those that pronounce them differently here say "pin".

I think the problem that some people have with using AltGr in a way they feel is wrong is that this key does things a little different on different keyboards, and it isn't always merely used to bring out the additional characters that are printed on a keyboard.  If there is potential for confusion due to this I feel it is better to go with another name.  By using a name like "Sym", or something that is not in use on any other keyboard, we reduce the chances of someone misunderstanding how the modifier will work.  The only downside I see is not instantly knowing the key, and that is where color coding comes in.

There is no need to treat the keyboard with the rough hand that many Americans use toward other languages.  This is exactly what we are trying to avoid.  Don't disregard the rest of the world because you don't use it (AltGr), or you do it differently.  It would be a very poor choice to use it on an international device without a full understanding of how it functions on other keyboards that are commonly used in different regions.

 

[Haraldur]

If my choice wins, I think I shall, when I get a Pyra, after years as a vim user, try out Escape Meta Alt Control Shift* on it. On the Pyra, I might not even get RSI.

*With EVIL mode (or similar), obviously.

 

[TrashyMG]

So is there any true differences between AltGR and Right Alt? from what I understand they are one in the same, well outside of the name on the key.

 

[Neelix]

So is there any true differences between AltGR and Right Alt? from what I understand they are one in the same, well outside of the name on the key.

Only in how they are handled as best I can tell. My keyboard doesn't specifically have an AltGR, but the keyboard layout I'm using does, and the Right Alt key fulfils that function.
- Neelix

 

[_wb_]

So is there any true differences between AltGR and Right Alt? from what I understand they are one in the same, well outside of the name on the key.

That's right afaik. I'm currently even typing on a keyboard (it's a Dell laptop) that has no AltGr key (just a right Alt), but oddly enough it does have an AltGr label for € on AltGr+5 and some Japanese character I don't recognize on AltGr+4 (probably something to toggle between input modes).

 

[bzar]

Using inputty and xev I tested my keyboard:


evdev, left alt: key code 56 = KEY_LEFTALT
evdev, altgr: key code 100 = KEY_RIGHTALT
xev, left alt: key code 64 = Alt_L
xev, altgr: key code 108 = ISO_Level3_Shift

AltGr and right alt are indistinguishable on a normal AltGr-equipped keyboard. It's just that right alt is mapped to third level shift instead of Alt_R on the keymap in X.

(EDIT: evdev and X key codes are different, just to be clear)