Beta Lemmingsdl 0.9.7

[Miner49er]

Hi there,

I've attempted to make a new pnd file based on my latest code:

http://lessermatters.homeunix.com/LemmingsSDL/

There are some major improvements (many thanks to Covox for pointing out a cause and solution to some serious CPU usage!)
Also, floater anim fixed. Xmas/ONML tunes and levels are working now and several other things.

Cheers,

m

 

[Dunny]

Hi there,

I've attempted to make a new pnd file based on my latest code:

http://lessermatters.homeunix.com/LemmingsSDL/

There are some major improvements (many thanks to Covox for pointing out a cause and solution to some serious CPU usage!)
Also, floater anim fixed. Xmas/ONML tunes and levels are working now and several other things.

Cheers,

m

1. Category is wrong, and appears under "other" and not "games".
2. Starts in a window until you press F.
3. In Full-Screen mode, the touchscreen is unusable.
4. Fullscreen doesn't scale the screen - it just draws it in the middle of a black rectangle at the same size.

Shame, I tested your older builds and (aside from not being able to complete a level) they ran much better.

D.

 

[Miner49er]

Hi there,

I've attempted to make a new pnd file based on my latest code:

http://lessermatters.homeunix.com/LemmingsSDL/

There are some major improvements (many thanks to Covox for pointing out a cause and solution to some serious CPU usage!)
Also, floater anim fixed. Xmas/ONML tunes and levels are working now and several other things.

Cheers,

m

1. Category is wrong, and appears under "other" and not "games".
2. Starts in a window until you press F.
3. In Full-Screen mode, the touchscreen is unusable.
4. Fullscreen doesn't scale the screen - it just draws it in the middle of a black rectangle at the same size.

Shame, I tested your older builds and (aside from not being able to complete a level) they ran much better.

D.

...but other than that, it's fine? wow! That was a serious screw up! This is the problem when I don't actually own the device I guess. Well, I'll look into it tonight and see if I've missed something obvious.

Thanks for your help Dunny

 

[foxblock]

1. Just change category in the PXML file, it probably should be Game and as subcategory either "PuzzleGame" or "ArcadeGame"
2. / 4. I had a similar problem with Schizophrenia, just explicitly force fullscreen in SDL as well as setting the resolution to 800x480 or in this case rather 640x480, seems like a regression bug, so check any of those lines you changes (also don't forget compiling with PLATFORM_PANDORA to enable all the switches I put in there for Pandora specific code, IIRC I also put a forced fullscreen in there way back)
3. Strange error, dunno what causes that, might be related to 2/4

Haven't yet downloaded the latest version, though, but I will see for myself and check whether it prints anything useful.

 

[Dunny]

...but other than that, it's fine? wow! That was a serious screw up! This is the problem when I don't actually own the device I guess. Well, I'll look into it tonight and see if I've missed something obvious.

Yep, it was a blast. Went through a couple of levels, no problems so long as I run in windowed mode.

I've had another go, and it seems that the touchscreen is running at a different offset to the game in fullscreen mode. Topleft of the screen is still 0,0 on the Pandora, but because the lemmings screen has moved to the right and down a touch rather than scaled... of course the touchscreen is out by that much.

As I said, it's a shame - this game was built for a touchscreen before they even existed in mainstream gaming consoles

D.

 

[Miner49er]

...but other than that, it's fine? wow! That was a serious screw up! This is the problem when I don't actually own the device I guess. Well, I'll look into it tonight and see if I've missed something obvious.

Yep, it was a blast. Went through a couple of levels, no problems so long as I run in windowed mode.

I've had another go, and it seems that the touchscreen is running at a different offset to the game in fullscreen mode. Topleft of the screen is still 0,0 on the Pandora, but because the lemmings screen has moved to the right and down a touch rather than scaled... of course the touchscreen is out by that much.

As I said, it's a shame - this game was built for a touchscreen before they even existed in mainstream gaming consoles

D.

Okay, I will create another build tonight - I think I know why it hasn't built with the Pandora specific code in. What this space!

 

[Dunny]

...but other than that, it's fine? wow! That was a serious screw up! This is the problem when I don't actually own the device I guess. Well, I'll look into it tonight and see if I've missed something obvious.

Yep, it was a blast. Went through a couple of levels, no problems so long as I run in windowed mode.

I've had another go, and it seems that the touchscreen is running at a different offset to the game in fullscreen mode. Topleft of the screen is still 0,0 on the Pandora, but because the lemmings screen has moved to the right and down a touch rather than scaled... of course the touchscreen is out by that much.

As I said, it's a shame - this game was built for a touchscreen before they even existed in mainstream gaming consoles

D.

Okay, I will create another build tonight - I think I know why it hasn't built with the Pandora specific code in. What this space!

Oh man yes, I love me some lemmings. Oh yes. Also, have you seen this?

http://www.mrdictionary.net/lemmings/

Source available - a very, very nice port built from scratch. I know the author, he's a good bloke. Contains every lemmings release so far (expansion packs for Lemmings 1, that is).

D.

 

[Miner49er]

...but other than that, it's fine? wow! That was a serious screw up! This is the problem when I don't actually own the device I guess. Well, I'll look into it tonight and see if I've missed something obvious.

Yep, it was a blast. Went through a couple of levels, no problems so long as I run in windowed mode.

I've had another go, and it seems that the touchscreen is running at a different offset to the game in fullscreen mode. Topleft of the screen is still 0,0 on the Pandora, but because the lemmings screen has moved to the right and down a touch rather than scaled... of course the touchscreen is out by that much.

As I said, it's a shame - this game was built for a touchscreen before they even existed in mainstream gaming consoles

D.

Okay, I will create another build tonight - I think I know why it hasn't built with the Pandora specific code in. What this space!

Oh man yes, I love me some lemmings. Oh yes. Also, have you seen this?

http://www.mrdictionary.net/lemmings/

Source available - a very, very nice port built from scratch. I know the author, he's a good bloke. Contains every lemmings release so far (expansion packs for Lemmings 1, that is).

D.

I have indeed. In fact I have used the LemmingsDS level format in my version. Yes, I could've just ported the whole thing but I had been working on my version (with just a static image of a level) for a while before I discovered his and I wanted to do as much myself as possible - I also concluded it would be too masochistic to work out the original level-format! Plus, I wanted mine to be 100% like the Amiga (though that has veered off recently with the menu system...this annoys me)

I too love Lemmings (obviously) though, my love comes from the cracking two player game on the Amiga. I had a so much fun with that in my youth and obviously not many people are interested nowadays, so I had wanted to make a networkable two-player game for a long time. The Pandora seems like an ideal platform...just wish I actually had one!

EDIT: I must add, I approached mrDictionary before using his format and he was happy for me to

 

[Miner49er]

Hi guys,

I've rebuilt the pnd file using pndtools. For some reason the squashfs and chmod kept failing but I did those bits manually and it seems to have appended the xml file okay (the file size increased anyway).

So, if anyone could test this, I would be most thankful

 

[Dunny]

Just tested - no difference. Still starts in a window, and although the touchscreen stays in synch for the first few levels it soon goes out of synch. The way to remedy it is to move the pointer to the top left and then reposition your stylus on the screen, at the same point.

Suggestion - scroll the screen with the D-Pad or shoulder buttons. D-Pad would be best, but lefties may like the ABXY buttons.

Also, is there any way to detect the touchscreen being in use and use absolute coordinates from that instead of relying on the Pandora's amazingly poor mouse pointer simulation? That way you could also get rid of the cursor altogether and play Lemmings how it was meant to be played

Oh yes - the screen is still not scaled on fullscreen mode, it sits in the middle like a lemming. If you'll pardon the pun

Zoom mode like other Lemmings implementation would be good (and might even come for free if you use hardware scaling).


D.

 

[Miner49er]

Just tested - no difference. Still starts in a window, and although the touchscreen stays in synch for the first few levels it soon goes out of synch. The way to remedy it is to move the pointer to the top left and then reposition your stylus on the screen, at the same point.

Suggestion - scroll the screen with the D-Pad or shoulder buttons. D-Pad would be best, but lefties may like the ABXY buttons.

Also, is there any way to detect the touchscreen being in use and use absolute coordinates from that instead of relying on the Pandora's amazingly poor mouse pointer simulation? That way you could also get rid of the cursor altogether and play Lemmings how it was meant to be played

Oh yes - the screen is still not scaled on fullscreen mode, it sits in the middle like a lemming. If you'll pardon the pun

Zoom mode like other Lemmings implementation would be good (and might even come for free if you use hardware scaling).


D.

I think most of those issues are resolved as there are tests for build type. I'm using Eclipse to setup the build so am obviously missing something. I'll have another crack in a minute...if only I had a Pandora, this would be much easier.

 

[Dunny]

Just tested - no difference. Still starts in a window, and although the touchscreen stays in synch for the first few levels it soon goes out of synch. The way to remedy it is to move the pointer to the top left and then reposition your stylus on the screen, at the same point.

Suggestion - scroll the screen with the D-Pad or shoulder buttons. D-Pad would be best, but lefties may like the ABXY buttons.

Also, is there any way to detect the touchscreen being in use and use absolute coordinates from that instead of relying on the Pandora's amazingly poor mouse pointer simulation? That way you could also get rid of the cursor altogether and play Lemmings how it was meant to be played

Oh yes - the screen is still not scaled on fullscreen mode, it sits in the middle like a lemming. If you'll pardon the pun

Zoom mode like other Lemmings implementation would be good (and might even come for free if you use hardware scaling).


D.

I think most of those issues are resolved as there are tests for build type. I'm using Eclipse to setup the build so am obviously missing something. I'll have another crack in a minute...if only I had a Pandora, this would be much easier.

To be fair, you're being let down by the fact that the Pandora simulates a mouse with the touchscreen, and does it very badly indeed. You need to re-make the control system from the ground-up with the stylus in mind (with mouse control optional, of course) - I'm not sure how you go about that at present though; one would imagine a system where the touchscreen could be read as x/y coords (through an event) for the stylus position rather than relying on bad mouse handling.

ScreenDown(x,y)
ScreenUp(x,y)
ScreenDrag(dx,dy)

Perhaps. I'm surprised that SDL doesn't already have that to be honest - touchscreens are everywhere these days.

D.

 

[Miner49er]

Just tested - no difference. Still starts in a window, and although the touchscreen stays in synch for the first few levels it soon goes out of synch. The way to remedy it is to move the pointer to the top left and then reposition your stylus on the screen, at the same point.

Suggestion - scroll the screen with the D-Pad or shoulder buttons. D-Pad would be best, but lefties may like the ABXY buttons.

Also, is there any way to detect the touchscreen being in use and use absolute coordinates from that instead of relying on the Pandora's amazingly poor mouse pointer simulation? That way you could also get rid of the cursor altogether and play Lemmings how it was meant to be played

Oh yes - the screen is still not scaled on fullscreen mode, it sits in the middle like a lemming. If you'll pardon the pun

Zoom mode like other Lemmings implementation would be good (and might even come for free if you use hardware scaling).


D.

I think most of those issues are resolved as there are tests for build type. I'm using Eclipse to setup the build so am obviously missing something. I'll have another crack in a minute...if only I had a Pandora, this would be much easier.

To be fair, you're being let down by the fact that the Pandora simulates a mouse with the touchscreen, and does it very badly indeed. You need to re-make the control system from the ground-up with the stylus in mind (with mouse control optional, of course) - I'm not sure how you go about that at present though; one would imagine a system where the touchscreen could be read as x/y coords (through an event) for the stylus position rather than relying on bad mouse handling.

ScreenDown(x,y)
ScreenUp(x,y)
ScreenDrag(dx,dy)

Perhaps. I'm surprised that SDL doesn't already have that to be honest - touchscreens are everywhere these days.

D.

Have you tried the version in the repo? Apparently that works properly (I.E. it's been build with the correct pre-processor flag!). I built it again last night but completely failed to rebuild the .pnd file :-( I'll try again tonight. You could be correct about the touch-screen thing but nobody else has mentioned it yet. I looked at the LemmingsDS page yesterday and he has implemented some extra cool input methods - that looks interesting but surely takes away some of the "100% Amiga like" status of my version?

 

[Dunny]

Just tested - no difference. Still starts in a window, and although the touchscreen stays in synch for the first few levels it soon goes out of synch. The way to remedy it is to move the pointer to the top left and then reposition your stylus on the screen, at the same point.

Suggestion - scroll the screen with the D-Pad or shoulder buttons. D-Pad would be best, but lefties may like the ABXY buttons.

Also, is there any way to detect the touchscreen being in use and use absolute coordinates from that instead of relying on the Pandora's amazingly poor mouse pointer simulation? That way you could also get rid of the cursor altogether and play Lemmings how it was meant to be played

Oh yes - the screen is still not scaled on fullscreen mode, it sits in the middle like a lemming. If you'll pardon the pun

Zoom mode like other Lemmings implementation would be good (and might even come for free if you use hardware scaling).


D.

I think most of those issues are resolved as there are tests for build type. I'm using Eclipse to setup the build so am obviously missing something. I'll have another crack in a minute...if only I had a Pandora, this would be much easier.

To be fair, you're being let down by the fact that the Pandora simulates a mouse with the touchscreen, and does it very badly indeed. You need to re-make the control system from the ground-up with the stylus in mind (with mouse control optional, of course) - I'm not sure how you go about that at present though; one would imagine a system where the touchscreen could be read as x/y coords (through an event) for the stylus position rather than relying on bad mouse handling.

ScreenDown(x,y)
ScreenUp(x,y)
ScreenDrag(dx,dy)

Perhaps. I'm surprised that SDL doesn't already have that to be honest - touchscreens are everywhere these days.

D.

Have you tried the version in the repo? Apparently that works properly (I.E. it's been build with the correct pre-processor flag!). I built it again last night but completely failed to rebuild the .pnd file :-( I'll try again tonight. You could be correct about the touch-screen thing but nobody else has mentioned it yet. I looked at the LemmingsDS page yesterday and he has implemented some extra cool input methods - that looks interesting but surely takes away some of the "100% Amiga like" status of my version?

I always download it from here: http://lessermatters.homeunix.com/LemmingsSDL/

You're not running on an Amiga, and don't have a mouse - you have a touchscreen and a nub configured as a very inaccurate mouse instead. If you're aiming to be 100% Amiga-style including the control methods then you're only ever going to have a substandard version of Lemmings - the Amiga had a mouse. You don't.

D.

 

[Miner49er]

You're not running on an Amiga, and don't have a mouse - you have a touchscreen and a nub configured as a very inaccurate mouse instead. If you're aiming to be 100% Amiga-style including the control methods then you're only ever going to have a substandard version of Lemmings - the Amiga had a mouse. You don't.

D.

Okay, fair enough point but I haven't had any negative feedback regarding the input method on a Pandora as of yet (apart from the issues you've mentioned which should be fixed when the build is done properly using the Pandora flag). I honestly do appreciate your feedback but I would like to try it for myself on the Pandora before changing the input method...or at least get your feedback when you've tried the proper build.

I have thought how difficult/awkward it would be 'clicking' (I suppose tapping) the screen/lemming would be but since nobody's sent me a Pandora for approaching 3 years, I've been unable to find out for myself.

I always found version of Lemmings that used a dpad for selection (like snes/gameboy etc) a bit rubbish to be honest and thought that a touchscreen is ideal for the game, now you saying it isn't, is a bit depressing really.

 

[Dunny]

You're not running on an Amiga, and don't have a mouse - you have a touchscreen and a nub configured as a very inaccurate mouse instead. If you're aiming to be 100% Amiga-style including the control methods then you're only ever going to have a substandard version of Lemmings - the Amiga had a mouse. You don't.

D.

Okay, fair enough point but I haven't had any negative feedback regarding the input method on a Pandora as of yet (apart from the issues you've mentioned which should be fixed when the build is done properly using the Pandora flag). I honestly do appreciate your feedback but I would like to try it for myself on the Pandora before changing the input method...or at least get your feedback when you've tried the proper build.

I have thought how difficult/awkward it would be 'clicking' (I suppose tapping) the screen/lemming would be but since nobody's sent me a Pandora for approaching 3 years, I've been unable to find out for myself.

I always found version of Lemmings that used a dpad for selection (like snes/gameboy etc) a bit rubbish to be honest and thought that a touchscreen is ideal for the game, now you saying it isn't, is a bit depressing really.

I think you misunderstand me

The touchscreen is the best method there is for this game. When it's working right, tapping a lemming is easy - much easier than using the mouse was on the Amiga/PC versions. And yes, D-Pad would be crap - the Spectrum version used a joystick or keys and was almost unplayable.

The ideal pandora control setup would be:

1. Touchscreen replaces mouse - no mouse pointer needed. The mouse pointer was used in the original version for inspecting a lemming - hover over it to get info on its abilities. You can't do that with a touchscreen - you'd have to click away from a lemming and then drag the cursor over it. Hence, get rid of the mouse pointer - it's pointless in a touchscreen environment. You have to think in terms of a touch interface rather than a mouse interface.

2. D-Pad for scrolling. Use Left/Right to scroll around the map. Maybe also the A and B buttons for those that are left-handed.

3. Use the START button to exit rather than ESC - one button press is better than two (Fn/Q).

The current problem is that the touchscreen is being used as a mouse rather than as a touchscreen. There are a great deal of apps and games that do this and it's very frustrating. Build a new control system with the Pandora's strengths in mind and you're laughing.

D.

 

[Miner49er]

You're not running on an Amiga, and don't have a mouse - you have a touchscreen and a nub configured as a very inaccurate mouse instead. If you're aiming to be 100% Amiga-style including the control methods then you're only ever going to have a substandard version of Lemmings - the Amiga had a mouse. You don't.

D.

Okay, fair enough point but I haven't had any negative feedback regarding the input method on a Pandora as of yet (apart from the issues you've mentioned which should be fixed when the build is done properly using the Pandora flag). I honestly do appreciate your feedback but I would like to try it for myself on the Pandora before changing the input method...or at least get your feedback when you've tried the proper build.

I have thought how difficult/awkward it would be 'clicking' (I suppose tapping) the screen/lemming would be but since nobody's sent me a Pandora for approaching 3 years, I've been unable to find out for myself.

I always found version of Lemmings that used a dpad for selection (like snes/gameboy etc) a bit rubbish to be honest and thought that a touchscreen is ideal for the game, now you saying it isn't, is a bit depressing really.

I think you misunderstand me

The touchscreen is the best method there is for this game. When it's working right, tapping a lemming is easy - much easier than using the mouse was on the Amiga/PC versions. And yes, D-Pad would be crap - the Spectrum version used a joystick or keys and was almost unplayable.

The ideal pandora control setup would be:

1. Touchscreen replaces mouse - no mouse pointer needed. The mouse pointer was used in the original version for inspecting a lemming - hover over it to get info on its abilities. You can't do that with a touchscreen - you'd have to click away from a lemming and then drag the cursor over it. Hence, get rid of the mouse pointer - it's pointless in a touchscreen environment. You have to think in terms of a touch interface rather than a mouse interface.

2. D-Pad for scrolling. Use Left/Right to scroll around the map. Maybe also the A and B buttons for those that are left-handed.

3. Use the START button to exit rather than ESC - one button press is better than two (Fn/Q).

The current problem is that the touchscreen is being used as a mouse rather than as a touchscreen. There are a great deal of apps and games that do this and it's very frustrating. Build a new control system with the Pandora's strengths in mind and you're laughing.

D.

AAaahhh! Now I understand! Now, I see why LemDS has the highlight-a-lemming mode! Of course! Well, yes the obvious quick solution is, as you say, remove the mouse-pointer when built for Pandora. Thank you, I have added your ideas to my Lemmings TODO list.

Thanks again for your great feedback

 

[Dunny]

AAaahhh! Now I understand! Now, I see why LemDS has the highlight-a-lemming mode! Of course! Well, yes the obvious quick solution is, as you say, remove the mouse-pointer when built for Pandora. Thank you, I have added your ideas to my Lemmings TODO list.

Well, make it optional - how you do that is up to you - because there will always be someone who wants to plug in a mouse and re-create that Amiga feeling...

Thanks again for your great feedback

No, thank you for your time and effort - if all devs and porters were as open to ideas and suggestions as you, we'd have a lot more quality software available for the Pandora. Hope you get yours soon, I really do. Lemmings is too obvious a Pandora game for OPT to be dragging their heels for.

D.

 

[foxblock]

Hi guys,

I've rebuilt the pnd file using pndtools. For some reason the squashfs and chmod kept failing but I did those bits manually and it seems to have appended the xml file okay (the file size increased anyway).

So, if anyone could test this, I would be most thankful

Hmm, problems with PNDTools? Please tell me, so I can try to fix them (I would be interested in a copy of the log of that run, although I already assume that it won't contain any useful information as the failing happens in squashfs itself - the PNDTools settings might help though). Also getting the error messages from sfs or chmod would help a lot (I know the cmd windows don't stay open so it's kinda tricky to extract, that's on the TODO list ).

Also do you need me to build a Pandora binary from the latest sources?

Hiding the cursor on the Pandora or toggling it at runtime should be a piece of cake, but I guess that is not news to you

 

[Miner49er]

Hi guys,

I've rebuilt the pnd file using pndtools. For some reason the squashfs and chmod kept failing but I did those bits manually and it seems to have appended the xml file okay (the file size increased anyway).

So, if anyone could test this, I would be most thankful

Hmm, problems with PNDTools? Please tell me, so I can try to fix them (I would be interested in a copy of the log of that run, although I already assume that it won't contain any useful information as the failing happens in squashfs itself - the PNDTools settings might help though). Also getting the error messages from sfs or chmod would help a lot (I know the cmd windows don't stay open so it's kinda tricky to extract, that's on the TODO list ).

Also do you need me to build a Pandora binary from the latest sources?

Hiding the cursor on the Pandora or toggling it at runtime should be a piece of cake, but I guess that is not news to you

Yeah, I the terminal flashes up and disappears too quickly but it seems like columns of numbers.

I most appreciate your offer of building LSDL for me but before you do that, can you test the binary and pnd I've put up on my site please? I think I've built it correctly this time meaning, I think I've setup the pre-processor setting up correctly in eclipse. I tested by printing a massive string one of in the tests and seeing if the filesize changed, it did so I'm hopeful this build works

Cheers again fellas.