slaeshjag
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It's possible to lock input devices, preventing X11 etc. to open them.
I wonder if I could add this functionality to inputty . Would make it possible to add chording support and other stuff to any input devicesIt's possible to lock input devices, preventing X11 etc. to open them.
It's not a solution at all, it's just a description of the problem. What _wb_ described above is a possible solution, it would solve the problem. (assuming it works, and doesn't cause more problems than it solves)It's not my solution Neelix. It worked on the Pandora. Press Shift + Fn + , for : that is, according to the wiki.
Thanks for explaining. As much as I know of SysRq and after reading this I'm inclined to add an Alt together with Power if it's going to act the part of SysRq too.I don't understand what the problem is.I meant for when the Power button is used for SysRq.
It is both. It is a power button and it is the SysRq at the same time, or at least it can be. If the power is off and you press the button the PWM signals a wakeup, just like on the Pandora. If it is on then the PWM ignores the signal and instead the OS handles it. If you simply press and release it then it goes to sleep, and the next time it is pressed the PWM will see the signal and wake up, just like on the Pandora. If you hold it down for 4 seconds it triggers the shutdown process, just like on the Pandora. It'd be pretty simple to add some additional functionality so that it could poll the game buttons or keyboard hardware directly to figure out if there are any magic SysRq keys being pressed and do the expected thing. If you hold it for more than 9 seconds it sends a hard off signal to the PWM, just like on the Pandora (actually I think that's part of the PWM design so assuming we have a similar module that'd come to the Pyra for free)
Currently on the Pandora this is all handled in user space but there's no technical reason it can't be done in kernel space where it would act as an interrupt.
I presume you're speaking of this post. If it's doable as opposed to moving the numbers behind Fn(Meta) then it's great.It's not a solution at all, it's just a description of the problem. What _wb_ described above is a possible solution, it would solve the problem. (assuming it works, and doesn't cause more problems than it solves)It's not my solution Neelix. It worked on the Pandora. Press Shift + Fn + , for : that is, according to the wiki.
You're not offering a solution though, you're effectively denying that the problem exists in the first place, and calling it solved.
-Neelix
Yeah, that's totally acceptable, preferable even. Maybe even more, L-trigger and R-trigger, just so there's less chance of accidents.But we can decide on the specifics later, the important thing is to make sure the Power button really is on a hardware interrupt (it should be) and agreeing that it makes some kind of sense to use it that way.Thanks for explaining. As much as I know of SysRq and after reading this I'm inclined to add an Alt together with Power if it's going to act the part of SysRq too
Not many people have replied yet, so I'm asking explicitly now: instead of having Ins/Del on the extra action buttons, we could make them Del/Backspace. That means we have one more key in the main keyboard part. What do you think? Good idea or not?I like the centered one, the del and backspace idea makes sense and putting insert on meta space is good too.Here is another variant, with a centered QWERTY row again, but with some interesting changes:
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/ca64e4e86233f302a7d52150ec0909d5
Being impartial here. I would place Backspace at Meta + Spacebar so it is at/closer to the keyboard, keep Delete where it is.Not many people have replied yet, so I'm asking explicitly now: instead of having Ins/Del on the extra action buttons, we could make them Del/Backspace. That means we have one more key in the main keyboard part. What do you think? Good idea or not?I like the centered one, the del and backspace idea makes sense and putting insert on meta space is good too.Here is another variant, with a centered QWERTY row again, but with some interesting changes:
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/ca64e4e86233f302a7d52150ec0909d5
No dedicated backspace key? That is not acceptable to me.Being impartial here. I would place Backspace at Meta + Spacebar so it is at/closer to the keyboard, keep Delete where it is.Not many people have replied yet, so I'm asking explicitly now: instead of having Ins/Del on the extra action buttons, we could make them Del/Backspace. That means we have one more key in the main keyboard part. What do you think? Good idea or not?I like the centered one, the del and backspace idea makes sense and putting insert on meta space is good too.Here is another variant, with a centered QWERTY row again, but with some interesting changes:
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/ca64e4e86233f302a7d52150ec0909d5
B)
On my laptop Delete is Fn + Backspace. I'm not fond of it but it does the job. In your layout, with Fn(Meta) both on it's left half, placing Backspace under Fn + Spacebar would've been at least an improvement to the Pandora's location for it and not too difficult to do.No dedicated backspace key? That is not acceptable to me.Being impartial here. I would place Backspace at Meta + Spacebar so it is at/closer to the keyboard, keep Delete where it is.Not many people have replied yet, so I'm asking explicitly now: instead of having Ins/Del on the extra action buttons, we could make them Del/Backspace. That means we have one more key in the main keyboard part. What do you think? Good idea or not?I like the centered one, the del and backspace idea makes sense and putting insert on meta space is good too.Here is another variant, with a centered QWERTY row again, but with some interesting changes:
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/ca64e4e86233f302a7d52150ec0909d5
B)
The bottom extra game button is very close to the keyboard, just above the O key on the Pandora. Compared to where backspace is on the Pandora (very top row), I think that's still an improvement. Not having backspace as a dedicated key would be a step backwards compared to the Pandora.
Feeling a sense of Déjà vu here... I struggled between backspace as anti-space as fn+space Vs Insert on Fn+space, removing Insert from it's ganged key set.On my laptop Delete is Fn + Backspace. I'm not fond of it but it does the job. In your layout, with Fn(Meta) both on it's left half, placing Backspace under Fn + Spacebar would've been at least an improvement to the Pandora's location for it and not too difficult to do.No dedicated backspace key? That is not acceptable to me.Being impartial here. I would place Backspace at Meta + Spacebar so it is at/closer to the keyboard, keep Delete where it is.Not many people have replied yet, so I'm asking explicitly now: instead of having Ins/Del on the extra action buttons, we could make them Del/Backspace. That means we have one more key in the main keyboard part. What do you think? Good idea or not?I like the centered one, the del and backspace idea makes sense and putting insert on meta space is good too.Here is another variant, with a centered QWERTY row again, but with some interesting changes:
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/ca64e4e86233f302a7d52150ec0909d5
B)
The bottom extra game button is very close to the keyboard, just above the O key on the Pandora. Compared to where backspace is on the Pandora (very top row), I think that's still an improvement. Not having backspace as a dedicated key would be a step backwards compared to the Pandora.
Anyhow, I think you should consider moving Backspace to where I have it in my layouts and then migrate Insert to Fn + Backspace. This will free up one of those keys. Maybe even jettison the Greek and Math keys to do so. Up to you as it's your proposal.
"How it 'worked' on the pandora" is the problem to be solved. Your solution is the problem. Please stop dressing it up as a solution, it's getting tiresome.Is there any reason we can't preassign these pairs under Shift + Fn too using the U.S. standard? My understanding here is that for the Pandora when the individual hits Shift + Fn and , they get : in DOSBox, which is the Shift value for ; on a U.S. keyboard and which is the Fn value on the , key, again on the Pandora. This worked for DOSBox on the Pandora according to what I've read, so why can't we do this same workaround, as you've called it previously, for the Pyra where all of these: - = [ ] \ ; ' / ` when combo'd with Shift + Fn produce these: _ + { } | : " ? ~ symbols? Except for having to remember U.S. pairings, I don't see why this wouldn't be possible, again.
-Neelix
As I've said several times, I want so called DosBox compatibility because I think making use of the fn+shift combos to maintain common character pairs is the right thing to do. Calling it "DosBox compatibility" is just naming convenience, the fact that it actually makes DosBox easier to use is a side effect of the layout.repeated requests that the keyboard must be designed around dosbox' lack of input flexibility
It's not a solution at all, it's just a description of the problem. What _wb_ described above is a possible solution, it would solve the problem. (assuming it works, and doesn't cause more problems than it solves)It's not my solution Neelix. It worked on the Pandora. Press Shift + Fn + , for : that is, according to the wiki.
You're not offering a solution though, you're effectively denying that the problem exists in the first place, and calling it solved.
-Neelix
And we're back to re-stating the ISSUE and calling it a fix.Is there any reason we can't preassign these pairs under Shift + Fn too using the U.S. standard? My understanding here is that for the Pandora when the individual hits Shift + Fn and , they get : in DOSBox, which is the Shift value for ; on a U.S. keyboard and which is the Fn value on the , key, again on the Pandora. This worked for DOSBox on the Pandora according to what I've read, so why can't we do this same workaround, as you've called it previously, for the Pyra where all of these: - = [ ] \ ; ' / ` when combo'd with Shift + Fn produce these: _ + { } | : " ? ~ symbols? Except for having to remember U.S. pairings, I don't see why this wouldn't be possible, again.And we're back to the spot where neither one of you understand what the 'DosBox issue' IS.
DosBox and others monitor keyboard hardware actions - NOT the OS keycodes. There is no software fix. Many VERY smart people have tried - and failed.
On your US standard keyboard, type in a { symbol. The actions you took were to:
1. Press and hold shift.
2. Press the [ key.
DosBox (and others) read that at a very near to hardware level then interpret the result of shift+[ as {.
If you have a key labeled as {, DosBox (and others) have no idea of how to interpret it.
DosBox is not broken. It is doing exactly what it was meant to do. The layout on the Pandora - and nearly every layout proposed in this thread - THOSE are broken by inventing their own symbol pairs (or lack thereof).
You're effectively saying that we should fix all of the non-broken software, using means unstated and unknown, to adjust to an intentionally broken keyboard layout.
I am absolutley pro Del/Backspace. It fits together and Ins is not that important to me, probably not that important to anyone. So I'd say put Ins as Meta somewhere else, like on space. Also the Del/Backspace Symbols are quite alike, which also adds some aesthetic points.Not many people have replied yet, so I'm asking explicitly now: instead of having Ins/Del on the extra action buttons, we could make them Del/Backspace. That means we have one more key in the main keyboard part. What do you think? Good idea or not?
True. But of course you already don't have cursor movement and home/end, so text editing is tricky anyway if you want to consider the gaming buttons exclusively as gaming buttons. I don't think it's a problem in practice, because most games that require text input don't require text input mid-game: if it's just something like multiplayer chat or highscore name entering, then the game will typically be in some kind of "text entry" mode, where the game actions don't work anyway.I wouldn't have a problem either way but I can think of a possible problem. If you had a program that used the gaming buttons as joystick buttons and also used the keyboard, you would no longer have backspace. Like when using PNDManager now on the Pandora, you cannot use the shoulder button for shift because that button changes pages. It may not be a problem but it is something to think about.
Just because game actions don't work in that mode doesn't necessarily mean that the text editing effects of those keys would be restored. Also, while the other keys are often used for text editing, backspace is most frequently used during text entry, so it has a slightly different function that I feel should not be separated from the main keyboard.True. But of course you already don't have cursor movement and home/end, so text editing is tricky anyway if you want to consider the gaming buttons exclusively as gaming buttons. I don't think it's a problem in practice, because most games that require text input don't require text input mid-game: if it's just something like multiplayer chat or highscore name entering, then the game will typically be in some kind of "text entry" mode, where the game actions don't work anyway.
Good point, the distinction between text editing and text entry. But of course the two extra game buttons don't have to be used for game actions; e.g. Pandora games would not use them by default.Just because game actions don't work in that mode doesn't necessarily mean that the text editing effects of those keys would be restored. Also, while the other keys are often used for text editing, backspace is most frequently used during text entry, so it has a slightly different function that I feel should not be separated from the main keyboard.True. But of course you already don't have cursor movement and home/end, so text editing is tricky anyway if you want to consider the gaming buttons exclusively as gaming buttons. I don't think it's a problem in practice, because most games that require text input don't require text input mid-game: if it's just something like multiplayer chat or highscore name entering, then the game will typically be in some kind of "text entry" mode, where the game actions don't work anyway.
-Neelix
I suppose that depends how it's implemented... One of the issues that came up with pandora though was that the nubs were treated as different joystick devices and the buttons were not treated as part of the joystick devices at all. In some games which were designed to use either joystick or keyboard control (but not both at the same time) this made control mapping... tricky, especially if it was closed source software running through something like DosBox. To avoid such an issue it makes sense to offer an input mode where the nubs and all the gaming buttons all act as a single joypad device. Switching to and from such a mode would probably have to be done on program start and exit, like switching the nubs to joystick mode is done now on the Pandora. That being the case those keys would be unavailable for the duration of that time regardless of whether the game actually uses the entire set of buttons or not.Good point, the distinction between text editing and text entry. But of course the two extra game buttons don't have to be used for game actions; e.g. Pandora games would not use them by default.
Are there examples of games that require text entry and that would also benefit from the full 6 action buttons (and 4 shoulders etc)? I'm not really a gamer so for me it's a bit hard to estimate whether this (putting Backspace on SouthWest) would be problematic for an important subset of games, or if it's only an academic issue.