In the v3 versions, ? and ' are purposely on AltGr + comma and period because they are infrequently(not at all?) used in DOSBox/QEMU's terminal from what I've skimmed. I think so anyways. :unsure:I do think you have a nice layout in general, and I appreciate your taking the time to do modifications based on community inputAnyways, hope you and others like them in a preliminary sort of way.![]()
. It's looking extremely polished.
I'm looking at one of the dedicated Esc maps you have...
I really like this, except that I feel like you moved ", ', ?, and / around worse from an earlier layout. I would have kept ' and " on A and S, / and ? on Z and X, respectively. (Alternatively, you could do ? and / on Z and X, which would make /= an easier combo.) This way things are "closer" to each other (horizontal relationships are less jarring than vertical relationships, IMO).
For the same reasons, I would also want backtick and forwardtick together, and \ and | next to each other (horizontally). But I don't use either ticks very much, and I don't often pipe things, so it's not that important for me. It does make certain keys harder to reach, which may not be as happy for some people. And maybe the changes have been made for certain other reasons, which I missed in the intervening discussion...
Also for people who are worried about escape being too close to something, just change what it does in the given program.
Updated all the layouts with one small, yet crucial change:
v1(Original): Consolidated and Unconsolidated
- CAPS Lock is now at AltGr + Tab. Any Shift + AltGr combos shouldn't be hindered now.
v2(Revised): Consolidated and Unconsolidated
v3(DOSBox Friendly): Consolidated and Unconsolidated
Above layouts with dedicated Escape key:
Summary:
- v2(Revised) Consolidated and Unconsolidated
- v3(DOSBox Friendly) Consolidated and Unconsolidated
- CAPS Lock is AltGr + Tab.
- AltGr then Hold Right Shift with 1, 2, or 3 could be Print Screen, Scroll Lock, and Pause/Break.
- Hard reset is Menu + Power + L1 shoulder. Use R1 instead for hard shutdown. Forced restart is Menu + Power.
- Kill tasks manager is Spacebar + Power(or hold Menu for five seconds).
- Menu could be moved to AltGr + Spacebar. Escape could then be a primary key in it’s place.
- In Wifi-only Pyra’s, 4G toggle is USB On/Off with HDMI-Out it’s shifted value.
- Key backlight toggle has four settings: off, low, medium, and high. Lid logo notifications could be switched similarly.
- Context Menu may be at AltGr + Spacebar.
On the Pyra it should not be the same, since we want to use the shoulder buttons in games, which means that if we have Fn/AltGr/Meta/Sym on a shoulder button, then the corresponding key events should be observable.Fair point. I think I got distracted there.It is only a software modifier in the sense that a driver handles it. No userspace application sees the fn key as a modifier.
Then for our purposes the Pandora's Fn key is a hardware modifier and for the Pyra it absolutely must be the same regardless of B-Zar's objections. Like ptitSeb says, we can't call it AltGr, have it spit out the "right alt" + "1" scan codes, and expect software to realize we mean F1.
Yeah, since that post I've been calling it "magic-do-the-thing" key (and eventually just "Hardware Modifier" or "HWM" even though it isn't strictly a hardware modifier, it just acts like it most of the time). Always it outputs a "MDTT" key code (which most current things won't be watching for but anything that wants to use the shoulder buttons can) but it also outputs the correct corresponding key combo to "do the thing" that the key says it will do, if there is a key combo. So if someone hits your "Meta"+"1", there's a "Meta" and an "F1" inserted into the event queue and SDL or whatever can pick up on either or both of those. The "1" is lost but I don't think that's a big deal, that's getting into tight corner cases where the developer can find alternative ways around it if it's really important.SDL even has a keycode we can repurpose: GUI, also known as "Windows", "Apple", or, conveniently, "Meta".On the Pyra it should not be the same, since we want to use the shoulder buttons in games, which means that if we have Fn/AltGr/Meta/Sym on a shoulder button, then the corresponding key events should be observable
Do we consider the gaming buttons to be in the scope of this thread here? If so, then there's Parentheses format for button labels (please don't discuss it here, do it over in the dedicated thread).Any others? (that take into account ED's first post in this thread; of course there are many other proposals from earlier keyboard threads)
I also like the idea of the Super and Esc keys being present, like _wb_.So, besides Grench and comradekingu who certainly have interesting ideas (and contributed much to the 'mainstream' proposals), what are the current 'mainstream' proposals?
There are Saber's proposals:
v1(Original): Consolidated and Unconsolidated
v2(Revised): Consolidated and Unconsolidated
v3(DOSBox Friendly): Consolidated and Unconsolidated
Above layouts with dedicated Escape key:
v2(Revised) Consolidated and Unconsolidated
v3(DOSBox Friendly) Consolidated and Unconsolidated
And here's my compromise proposal:
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/f9f3508ae2ea1ed6de939d0100173675
Any others? (that take into account ED's first post in this thread; of course there are many other proposals from earlier keyboard threads)
Could we perhaps discuss now the remaining differences between the current 'compromise' / 'mainstream' / 'final' proposals?
I agree with you: Althought I am Spaniard I use US keyboard because it is more ergonomic for all tipping and even better for programming. Even if I buy a computer with an European/Spanish, I change its keyboard for a US keyboard (UK keyboard are near so bad like Spanish keyboard).Well, the key sequences are oriented around graphical similarity for most things: {compose},{"},{e} will produce ë. ({compose},{,},{c}-> ç) these are all pressed in sequence, not at the same time, so you will not break your hand doing it
Btw. I am German, I type in German (yes everyday stuff as well) and all my keyboards are US layouted because it is VERY good for programming.
@slaeshjag: I use the compose key all the time! So, the compose key being crap for common things is just... like, your opinion, man.
You are 100% correct. And i quoted ED in saying so. From firstpost@ comradekingu: Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be implying that the Pyra is aimed to be a device the average user should be able to just pick up and use without getting confused?
If that is what you are saying, then I am somewhat perplexed. In the reality I live in, both the Pandora and the Pyra are devices *not* aimed at the average user and a notable learning curve is required in order to get familiar with the device.
I wouldn't recommend either to someone who doesn't have the savvy, patience (and enthusiasm) to figure out a layout such as Grench's through trial and error.
The problem with Compose Mode is once you are in it, how do you back out of it without performing a sequence? It's not like single-use Menu or Tab which are done with when you hit another key. Will software let you type AltGr + Spacebar again to cancel? I'm sort of reluctant to put anything on AltGr + Spacebar in case the user wants to press Spacebar while in AltGr mode.Why not use AltGr and Space for anything?
It's so easy to access with only one finger.
I would maybe put Compose there.
Much better than any other combination in my opinion.
I like that idea, ESCAPE in the place of MENU, very much. I think Escape is a very important key for a Linux computer (that is Pyra) and even for emulating other computers.For those who want an Escape key as primary(although for me AltGr + q is acceptable), with this particular layout the way I'd do it is move Escape to where Menu is, then move Menu to under AltGr + Spacebar. I press Escape more often then I need the Start Menu, but as said where I had put Escape is fine too.
ESC isn't missing in any other layouts designs. Question is if it's necessary as a primary key. I personally never had any issue of the ESC key being shared with Q on the Pandora(ie FN+Q = ESC).I like that idea, ESCAPE in the place of MENU, very much. I think Escape is a very important key for a Linux computer (that is Pyra) and even for emulating other computers.
For many people this was a veto-thing. Also the most requested dedicated key along with tab.ESC isn't missing in any other layouts designs. Question is if it's necessary as a primary key. I personally never had any issue of the ESC key being shared with Q on the Pandora(ie FN+Q = ESC).I like that idea, ESCAPE in the place of MENU, very much. I think Escape is a very important key for a Linux computer (that is Pyra) and even for emulating other computers.
I could care less about a menu button, but I personally don't like that location for the ESC key.
My keyboard has some keys in positions that are more convenient to me (Esc next to the number row, Caps Lock swapped with left Ctrl). The Pandora Esc is more like where mine is than what you suggest, and on the Pyra it would be one down and a little right, however what you said is probably best for most people.The leftmost key on the power-column is a good placement for escape, it is out of the way, in similar fashion to where you are used to fiding it, up and to the left.