How to calculate a price for the Pyra

[_wb_]

Although commonplace, it's strange to think that the distributors will be making more profit on each Pyra they sell , than ED will make selling to them. Even though ED had to do the hard lifting to develop and produce the Pyra , the distributors at the end get the lion share of the profit.

The distributors also have to deal with after-sales costs though, if something is wrong with a unit sold by Link to someone in the US, it will be sent back to Link for a repair. At least that's what I assume.

What is surprising to me is that they're planning to do the 2-layer base board + 8-layer CPU module pcb trick also in the actual units. I thought this was just something to make the prototyping cheaper.

 

[xiongxioi]

The modular CPU PCB idea is fantastic. May be I would still be using pyra 10 years from now in I my free time between working in underground slave mines for our robot masters. I would rather spend money on upgrading pyra than my PC. I hope taking pyra apart would be easier and less stressful.

 

[Exophase]

What is surprising to me is that they're planning to do the 2-layer base board + 8-layer CPU module pcb trick also in the actual units. I thought this was just something to make the prototyping cheaper.

gta04 said this was a big consideration so it shouldn't be that surprising.. Anyway, if they're doing it for prototyping wouldn't it be cheaper in the long run too, and more practical? It defeats some of the purpose of prototyping if your final PCBs are totally different from your prototyped ones.

When I last brought it up a few months ago ED did totally shoot it down, I'm just glad to see I'm not the only one who thought it made sense ;p

 

[vcoleiro1]

Although commonplace, it's strange to think that the distributors will be making more profit on each Pyra they sell , than ED will make selling to them. Even though ED had to do the hard lifting to develop and produce the Pyra , the distributors at the end get the lion share of the profit.

The distributors also have to deal with after-sales costs though, if something is wrong with a unit sold by Link to someone in the US, it will be sent back to Link for a repair. At least that's what I assume

True, though if you look at EDs cost break down he allows 5 euro per unit for after sales costs. There would also be costs for shipment to them , warehousing etc say another 10 euro per unit. So even taking all that into account the distributors are getting far more than ED is getting in profit selling to them.

It's pretty common, for example when I worked at Ford . Dealers would make more on the vehicles than Ford did selling to them.

 

[Exophase]

The distributors also have to deal with after-sales costs though, if something is wrong with a unit sold by Link to someone in the US, it will be sent back to Link for a repair. At least that's what I assume.

ED accounted for RMA costs separately from distributor markup, so presumably the distributor can forward the units to ED for repair without additional charge outside of the shipping and the time needed to do this. Given the nature of this community a lot of people would take the option to send it to ED directly if given it, since it'd result in a faster turnaround time.

 

[Natsu]

Why would the CPU need 8 layers?

 

[slaeshjag]

Many signals

such complexity

much emi

wow

 

[N3Cr0]

It looks to me that there might be more commercial apps to drop the price. I know, that's not really what we want, but all in all, it should lead to more sales of the device with still better profit.

 

[_wb_]

It looks to me that there might be more commercial apps to drop the price. I know, that's not really what we want, but all in all, it should lead to more sales of the device with still better profit.

No. Maybe the Pyra will be able to run more commercial apps than the Pandora (through Android or emulation or maybe the occasional port), but there's no way that that is going to drop the price of the Pyra, since the profit of those commercial apps does not go to ED/DragonBox.

Unless you are proposing a closed or semi-closed software eco-system where ED can force app devs to pay him, commercial apps cannot have an impact on the device price.

 

[Klumpen]

Although commonplace, it's strange to think that the distributors will be making more profit on each Pyra they sell , than ED will make selling to them. Even though ED had to do the hard lifting to develop and produce the Pyra , the distributors at the end get the lion share of the profit.

That's the reason why my small company sells all products directly in the workshop or at festivals itself. I'd never use distributors, those are mostly people like Mr.C that want to make as much money as possible for as few work as needed.

 

[Natsu]

Does the Pyra needs its on market? MarketBox.

 

[comradekingu]

Why do we have to deal with retail? It only adds cost. I dont see a problem with buying it directly from ED.

In 8 days it will be a full year till i should have gotten my "first production run" gwc-zeros.

I can stomach production delays, but retail making their own rules really is something we dont need in 2014.

Edit: Yes, i know there are ways to do things right, but as the saying goes, those are things you do yourself.

An extension of which is taking away variables that can only go wrong, for no added benefit.

 

[N3Cr0]

It looks to me that there might be more commercial apps to drop the price. I know, that's not really what we want, but all in all, it should lead to more sales of the device with still better profit.

 No. Maybe the Pyra will be able to run more commercial apps than the Pandora (through Android or emulation or maybe the occasional port), but there's no way that that is going to drop the price of the Pyra, since the profit of those commercial apps does not go to ED/DragonBox.

Unless you are proposing a closed or semi-closed software eco-system where ED can force app devs to pay him, commercial apps cannot have an impact on the device price.

That's what I meant: Of course, ED should get his share for each app sold. That's what most software distribution platforms do and they earn a lot of money this way. It would also enhance the target audience (lower device price + support from professional [game] development teams => ordinary consumers would like it)

 

[klapse]

What is surprising to me is that they're planning to do the 2-layer base board + 8-layer CPU module pcb trick also in the actual units. I thought this was just something to make the prototyping cheaper.

gta04 said this was a big consideration so it shouldn't be that surprising.. Anyway, if they're doing it for prototyping wouldn't it be cheaper in the long run too, and more practical? It defeats some of the purpose of prototyping if your final PCBs are totally different from your prototyped ones.


When I last brought it up a few months ago ED did totally shoot it down, I'm just glad to see I'm not the only one who thought it made sense ;p

Won't two boards make the unit considerably thicker than the pandora?  Or is there space to put them side-by-side?

 

[slaeshjag]

If you do it right, it does not have to become much thicker. A module designed for low profile might stand 2-3 mm above the mainboard.

 

[_wb_]

It looks to me that there might be more commercial apps to drop the price. I know, that's not really what we want, but all in all, it should lead to more sales of the device with still better profit.

 
No. Maybe the Pyra will be able to run more commercial apps than the Pandora (through Android or emulation or maybe the occasional port), but there's no way that that is going to drop the price of the Pyra, since the profit of those commercial apps does not go to ED/DragonBox.


Unless you are proposing a closed or semi-closed software eco-system where ED can force app devs to pay him, commercial apps cannot have an impact on the device price.

That's what I meant: Of course, ED should get his share for each app sold. That's what most software distribution platforms do and they earn a lot of money this way. It would also enhance the target audience (lower device price + support from professional [game] development teams => ordinary consumers would like it)

How do you make sure that ED gets his share while having an open platform that anyone can dev for?

People in this community want to pay for a device that they then completely own. Strangely enough this has become the exception. The business model of Apple, Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft etc is based on selling a device cheaply, but you don't really get to own the device. You can't do with it what you want. If you want to run software on it, you're essentially forced to paying again and again (maybe just by watching ads or by letting them spy on you for direct marketing purposes etc). You're basically renting the device, you never really bought the hardware, only a license to use the hardware as they see fit.

The point of the OpenPandora, and also of the Pyra, is to be an open handheld. You pay the price once, but then you own the hardware and do with it what you want. Yes, that means it will be more expensive. In the same sense that buying a house or a car is more expensive than staying in a hotel room or driving everywhere by taxi. The initial sum you have to pay is bigger. But it's totally worth it.

 

[Natsu]

^Rooting, jailbreaking, hacking, and modding kind of says otherwise.

How do you make sure that ED gets his share while having an open platform that anyone can dev for?

For the most part, this is what Andriod does, right?

Why do we have to deal with retail?

Market as in Google Play.
Although, maybe someday he can get them in GameStops. :lol:

 

[SNESFAN]

I know it may sound silly, but taking a point from FSF, why not attempt to make additional profit by selling support? Warranty hardware support is a requirement from ED for selling hardware. But most software is ported for free as freelance work from that community, so is troubleshooting and questions. But if say customer A wishes to run software X or have feature Y added or improved in the OS that may be contracted out by dragonbox to a group of contracted programmers that exist within the community, profits shared etc. FSF business model for support I think mainly targets end users as businesses rather than consumers but maybe it can still be shoehorned into a feasible business model? Maybe even target businesses as a use case for the pyra with its mobile secure PC like aspects. I doubt it would reduce the actual price of hardware, but it might put a few coins in ED's pocket for future improvements?

 

[Binky]

People in this community want to pay for a device that they then completely own.

This.

Exactly this.

 

[klapse]

but it might put a few coins in ED's pocket for future improvements?

A lot of work for a small chance for a small profit. Ed needs to focus on his core business to be successful.