How to calculate a price for the Pyra

[cinaeco]

So, you're applying a set of logic for when you have a whole ton of customers, and very high volumes of goods to maneuver. That... really doesn't sound like the situation the Pyra will be in at all.

 

[SoniX]

We also buy from some manufactures small quantities. Its the same for this except lesser profit.


I never saw a company which raises prices because resellers want to make money. Thats not the companies problem how they get their profit!


The reason is simple but very important:


Its illegal to dictate prices!


So if Ed sells Pyras to a reseller for example 400Euro and raises the price to 500 because of the reseller, the reseller will just drop the price. The more he sells the more money he gets. If there are many rivaling resellers the price will drop down near to 400 euros. And so the hole calculation and raised prices from Ed are senseless. Thats the reason companies dont sell at higher prices because others. It will not work! And Ed cant do anything to stop this; it would be illegal.

 

[WizardStan]

Dude, just admit that you don't believe ED deserves to make a profit and get off your high horse. How he arrived at the price he wants to charge is irrelevant, if he wants to claim a 65% profit margin because the voices in his head tell him that that's a magic number then he can go right ahead and charge that, no skin off my nose. You're the only person arguing that he should make less money.

 

[Grench]

It amazes me how people can find some angle to complain despite being done a favor.  Re-sellers are a good thing.  ED making a solid profit is a good thing.  Us getting Pyras and some day 4-6 years from now getting a successor is a good thing.

ED should start with prices on the high side at release.  It's a lot easier to lower prices over time than it is to raise them.  Early buyers are also, frankly, willing to pay more than those who would normally wait for reviews and community support to be fully in place.  ED should capture some of those instead of gifting it to early buyers reselling units on auction sites (see Pandora).

Now, that said, it would also be a not-so-bad idea if ED were to give a modest (10%?) discount from the intended initial retail price to those willing to pre-order.  Think of it as making up for the fact that he gets the money, but delivery is going to take an extended amount of time.

 

[EvilDragon]

We also buy from some manufactures small quantities. Its the same for this except lesser profit.

I never saw a company which raises prices because resellers want to make money. Thats not the companies problem how they get their profit!

I wonder what planet you're coming from.

On this planet, there's probably not a single company that mainly sells through distributors and resellers which doesn't include that in their calculation.

Apple has resellers and sells their devices themselves, and they try to keep the prices the same.

Why? Because people would not buy from resellers if they could get the same device from Apple for a few hundred EUR less.

So either you have the same price as your reseller, or you won't get any.

To have the same price, you got two options: Either you increase your sales price to make it possible for a reseller to also sell your product.

Or you sell it to the reseller without any profit, so he can get sell it for the same price as yourself. In that case though, having resellers doesn't really make much sense.

The reason is simple but very important:

Its illegal to dictate prices!

Of course you can't, it's up for everyone to make his own offers.

However, a reseller can never sell it as low as the manufacturer can.

So if Ed sells Pyras to a reseller for example 400Euro and raises the price to 500 because of the reseller, the reseller will just drop the price. The more he sells the more money he gets.

No, he doesn't, we would make less money or even have a loss.

If I have production costs of 350 EUR (for example) and sell it for 400 EUR to the reseller (as I need to make profit).

You claim I should sell it for the same price to the customer, which would be 400 EUR as well.

So a reseller would have to pay 400 EUR and sell it for 400 EUR... he wouldn't make any profit.

However, he also has costs like putting it on the website, take care of returns, pay shipping from me to him, etc.

So he would make a loss if he sells it for the same price I do.

You see the problem?

He COULD NOT EVER drop the price, unless he wants to make a loss just to sell the Pyras

If there are many rivaling resellers the price will drop down near to 400 euros. And so the hole calculation and raised prices from Ed are senseless. Thats the reason companies dont sell at higher prices because others. It will not work! And Ed cant do anything to stop this; it would be illegal.

You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about, do you?

EVERY company does that. Motorola has it's own shop and has the same prices as other resellers.

Apple does the same, as does Samsung, etc.

And no, NONE of the resellers makes a loss selling their products. So the only other option is that those companies have decided to have increased prices so their resellers are also able to get sales.

Please explain to me how it could work in a different way.

And please show me ONE company that uses mainly resellers and distributors that sells their own product for 20 - 30% less than their resellers do.

 

[MooTheKow]

We also buy from some manufactures small quantities. Its the same for this except lesser profit.


I never saw a company which raises prices because resellers want to make money. Thats not the companies problem how they get their profit!


The reason is simple but very important:


Its illegal to dictate prices!


So if Ed sells Pyras to a reseller for example 400Euro and raises the price to 500 because of the reseller, the reseller will just drop the price. The more he sells the more money he gets. If there are many rivaling resellers the price will drop down near to 400 euros. And so the hole calculation and raised prices from Ed are senseless. Thats the reason companies dont sell at higher prices because others. It will not work! And Ed cant do anything to stop this; it would be illegal.

To quote Billy Madison:


"what you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

 

[WizardStan]

There are some people that can't handle transparency. If EvilDragon had simply said "this is the price I'm calculating" I'm sure SoniX wouldn't have had a problem. It's only because ED was so open with his calculations of adjusting his profit to match resellers that there's an issue.

Alternatively he could have said he was estimating a 40% profit, and resellers would get a 20% discount: the numbers could have worked out the same and again no complaints.

 

[EvilDragon]

Is it THAT bad within the US? In Germany, the reseller is required to replace the device RIGHT away, without any waiting time, if it is defective!

It is that bad in Austria! I live in Vienna and here it is like it is in Germany. If some device breaks (not if its broken when buying), then the reseller must not replace the device. Mostly he will send it to a repairstation. Sure the reseller can replace it, but thats only goodwill; voluntary service. 

So no. We will not get a new device without waiting time if something breaks.

If it's like that, then it's different in Germany.

I know that almost any company tells you to send it to a repair and sometimes they even want you to pay for shipping costs, but you don't have to do that.

But you can still claim your rights and let them handle it completely. You have to get a free repaired device within 14 days.

Okay. I think you didnt read my last sentences.

The more you sell, the better it is. And if you want to use resellers, then just do it.

The important part is: Dont set the price higher because of them!

If I do that, there will be nobody that wants to resell that.

Less resellers means less sales means less profit means smaller community means less software.

a ) You only can avoid this costs if you dont sell anything; do you want that? Only sell through resellers? I thought you want both; resellers and selling at your shop? 

You wont save this costs if you also sell at your own.

If I got a reseller, e.g. in Spain, I will not sell to that country, so no costs for me.

b ) The prices are not as high as you may think. 

I looked for Germany; there are offers for 250 Euro a year for half a ton (iirc) electronics. How many Pyras would that be? Would not be much for every single Pyra. 

In Austria I found something like 4Cent per Item. Thats not much. Other countrys should be similar.

That's only the price you pay for the electronics you sell.

However, you need to register first (which triggers costs. In Germany, a basic registration alone is 450 EUR. The payment for the actual sales is put on top of that).

Also, you need to have a representative in each country as well.

This also costs money.

Believe me, I'm doing this since 2005, I know everything about that.

I had to register the GP2X, the Pandora, the Everdrives, etc.

Well, as mentioned, I don't know US laws, but in Germany (and probably most of Europe), the seller is REQUIRED to replace it within a few days for their costs. If you send it to Germany, it would either take 4 - 5 weeks shipping (international letter) or cost about 50 - 60 EUR again. So your costs would increase either 120 EUR (back and forth) or you'd have to wait for 8 - 10 weeks before you get it back. Instead of having a distributor who replaces the unit right away for local shipping costs. That worked pretty well with Link now, didn't it?

I dont know what you mean. Did you ever had a broken device like a mobilephone? There is no law that says the reseller has to replace the device within a few days!

There is. But most resellers try to send you to the manufacturer.

Here is an information (only in German though) about that:

http://www.eu-verbraucher.de/fileadmin/user_upload/eu-verbraucher/PDF/Joint_Project_Garantien/FAQ_Gewaehrleistung_Garantie_DE.pdf

The time to replace or repair the broken goods is 2 - 4 weeks (depending on the device and complexity).

"An wen muss ich mich bei Mängeln wenden?

Immer an den Verkäufer."

Means:

"Who should I contact if the device has issues?

Always the seller"

That's EU law

Now we have 450 plus resellercosts plus shipping? 

Come on... 

At you calculation you said about 400; with shipping costs to Austria that would be maybe 420Euros.

I clearly told this is an example, as it's publically known we don't even have a finished price yet.

We are reseller of different products. We buy them in Sweden, Germany, Poland etc and sell them to Austria, Germany, Swizerland, France and sometimes to the US, Mexico, etc. 

We buy large amounts from the manufacturers and we buy several times from them so we get a discount on the prices. The discount depends on the quantitiy and the manufacturer. It can be 5% but also be 20%. From one manufacturer in Germany we buy since about 15 years; about 5tons a year; there we get 25%. Also the shipping costs are very small for the single piece because we buy hundrets of kg at once. 

So the products get cheaper. 

If a customer wants to buy at the manufacturer, he can do this. But a customer will only buy a few pieces, will get no or just a small discount and he has to pay the full shippingcosts; which can easily be higher than the products costs.

Yes, and still, whatever high quantity you buy: The manufacturer will NOT sell the product to you without making profit, and certainly not with making loss.

Additionally, you confirm exactly what I say:

The price he sells the product to the end customer is HIGHER than the price he sells the product to your company.

The quantity doesn't make a difference, as he will NEVER sell it without making a bit of profit or with making a loss to you.

So he COULD sell it for the same price to end customers as well. Which is what YOU want ME to do.

So you are actually confirming that your manufacturers are doing it in the same way that I do...

 

[levi]

That's the law in the UK too; if something you bought goes wrong within the normal period you'd expect it to work for, that's breach of contract - the contract between you and the supplier (not the manufacturer).  The supplier has to either send you a working unit (either your unit repaired or a new one) or refund your money.  I'm not honestly sure what time they're allowed to execute a repair, but in my experience it's a few weeks including postage.

On the other hand, retailers aren't really interested into supporting your device a lot of the time - they only do it because they have to.  But manufacturers have an interest in maintaining your support so that when the time comes, you'll buy another device of that brand, so you sometimes get better results going direct to them.

This country registration business; does that mean you'll have to register in the UK if I want to buy a Pyra from you?  It's part of the WEEE regulations, I think you said; ironically, since that came in I don't think I've bought a device that doesn't say 'contact your local council' when it comes to end of life.

 

[Grench]

If I got a reseller, e.g. in Spain, I will not sell to that country, so no costs for me.

This part is a bit bothersome.  Gifting a re-seller monopoly rights to their region/nation makes me pause a bit.

Don't get me wrong - I have nothing but respect for Link in the US and will purchase my Pyra through his store without hesitation.

However, there was one re-seller in England that I purchased a first run Gigahertz Pandora from who turned out to be less than reliable.  If someone, for whatever reason, does not want to purchase through the re-seller for their region/nation, wouldn't they still be able to purchase direct from www.DragonBox.de and pay whatever relevant shipping charges and import duties are relevant?

 

[comradekingu]

What re-seller knows anything about electronics and has a customer-support that is worth what you end up paying for it?

What regions does it cover if so?

 

[EvilDragon]

What re-seller knows anything about electronics and has a customer-support that is worth what you end up paying for it?

What regions does it cover if so?

I was a reseller of the GP2X, Caanoo, WIZ, Dingoo, am still of the GCW, etc.

So...?

If I got a reseller, e.g. in Spain, I will not sell to that country, so no costs for me.

This part is a bit bothersome.  Gifting a re-seller monopoly rights to their region/nation makes me pause a bit.

Don't get me wrong - I have nothing but respect for Link in the US and will purchase my Pyra through his store without hesitation.

It's not a monopoly. There doesn't necessarily have to be only one reseller in that country.

However, there was one re-seller in England that I purchased a first run Gigahertz Pandora from who turned out to be less than reliable.  If someone, for whatever reason, does not want to purchase through the re-seller for their region/nation, wouldn't they still be able to purchase direct from www.DragonBox.de and pay whatever relevant shipping charges and import duties are relevant?

It would be illegal for me to sell it there if I don't have a WEEE registration there.

It's fucking annoying, yes.

 

[comradekingu]

In terms of the pyra, that doesn't the answer the question of who to re-sell it.

People who are ED, that also run a shop:                     1

Shops that should have been ED:              all of them

Places I fear running into non-ED service:  all of them - 1

Big and bulky seems synonymous with evil and far removed from anything to do with insight. Like paypal, various crowdfunding sites, amazon, walmart et al.

Small and nice and you run the risk of that company going out of business. Or the ltd. type business, or any other such nonsense.

In terms of reaching out to new people, it should be the same, yet different. Maybe some audio-shop, or a photography site? That can be achieved with affiliate links though.

More publicity is huge, and that is a small risk/cost in turn for what is at worst longer shipping times from EDs shop.

In my head there is no question the best and least amount of potential problems is achieved from buying from ED Germany, to Norway.

Is thinkgeek stationed in many countries, or do they ship only from the US?

 

[levi]

Thinkgeek certainly used to dispatch from the US.   I'm not sure if they still do; it's a good few years since I bought anything from them.

I'm also not sure how the WEEE regulations apply to sales from outside the EU.  I've not imported any electronics from the US since they came in, and I've only really imported a few cheap bits from China, which didn't come with any documentation.

Also, ED's company is OpenPandora GmbH.  The GmbH setup is a limited-liability type setup as I grok it.

 

[SoniX]

Come on Ed... You can not rotate it as you like.... 

First you say without any waiting time: 

In Germany, the reseller is required to replace the device RIGHT away, without any waiting time, if it is defective!

Then later we have a few days: 

Well, as mentioned, I don't know US laws, but in Germany (and probably most of Europe), the seller is REQUIRED to replace it within a few days for their costs.

Then we have 2 weeks: 

You have to get a free repaired device within 14 days.

And then we have 2weeks to 1 month: 

The time to replace or repair the broken goods is 2 - 4 weeks (depending on the device and complexity).

What should I say? I lost my words.

On this planet, there's probably not a single company that mainly sells through distributors and resellers which doesn't include that in their calculation. Apple has resellers and sells their devices themselves, and they try to keep the prices the same. Why? Because people would not buy from resellers if they could get the same device from Apple for a few hundred EUR less. So either you have the same price as your reseller, or you won't get any. To have the same price, you got two options: Either you increase your sales price to make it possible for a reseller to also sell your product. Or you sell it to the reseller without any profit, so he can get sell it for the same price as yourself. In that case though, having resellers doesn't really make much sense.

Why you choosed Apple? Applestores are Applestores and not independent resellers like you want to use. They cant choose their prices. 

But take another company. Company X sells mobilephones. One mobilephone will cost Y Dollars. A big european reseller will buy 5000 mobilephones and will get 20% from company X. He calculates his profit and sells the phones for X+20%. So he will have about 34% profit. 

If someone other would buy from company X and wants only 1 piece he will get the normal price. Including transport he will pay more than he would pay at the reseller. So he wont buy from manufacturer. 

The manufacturer will not raise prices because of resellers; but he will give % if the reseller buys big quantities. 

Yes, and still, whatever high quantity you buy: The manufacturer will NOT sell the product to you without making profit, and certainly not with making loss.

Sure they wont sell the products without any profit. Thats not what I wanted! 

If you sell them for 400 Euros you will make profit!! You already calculated it in the 400!!! 

Additionally, you confirm exactly what I say: The price he sells the product to the end customer is HIGHER than the price he sells the product to your company. The quantity doesn't make a difference, as he will NEVER sell it without making a bit of profit or with making a loss to you. So he COULD sell it for the same price to end customers as well. Which is what YOU want ME to do.   So you are actually confirming that your manufacturers are doing it in the same way that I do...

 

Sure the quantity make a difference :-D 

If we buy large quantitys at once we will get a better price. All companys I buy from make it so... 

 

And no. All companys we buy dont raise their prices because of us. Who are we that they should do that?

 

They produce a product and have a price. We buy it like many others buy it. We buy bigger quantitys so we get a better price. 

 

No its not the same! 

 

We also have own products. And we have a price for it. We make a little profit with it. 

There are also some bigger companys buying our product and they are selling it to customers. 

But the customers can also buy it from us; we dont raise prices because of the larger companys. 

The large companys just buy big quantitys and so get a better price and offer service to their customers so the customers buy from them. 

 

Producing 400 pcs at once is cheaper that producing 5pcs..... 

 

Its not our problem how they calculate their prices! It also does not interest us. We just produce it and sell it. 

 

 

 

What would you say to following: 

I will buy for example 100 Pyras; you give me discont and sell it to me for 400 Euros each. 

But I wouldnt sell them for 500 Euros; I will sell them for 430 Euros. 

 

What then? Would you also sell it for 430 Euros? How can other resellers hold the price then?

Then all customers over the world would buy from me? (You said they wouldnt buy it anymore from the resellers if someother is cheaper)... 

I would make profit, you would make profit and all customers will get a cheap Pyra. Free market economy! What you say about this? 

 

I dont know how much the Pandory did cost at different stores, but Im sure buying from Ed was cheaper!! There it also worked! Why not with the Pyra? 

 

[WizardStan]

But I wouldnt sell them for 500 Euros; I will sell them for 430 Euros.   

What then? Would you also sell it for 430 Euros? How can other resellers hold the price then?

He won't care, he's already sold 100 to you at 400EUR, and once those 100 are sold he can decide whether your undercutting him caused him any problems or not. If it didn't then there's nothing to worry about, if you want more to continue selling at such a pathetic profit margin then go right ahead. If he does find that your sale undervalued the product and he lost business then you won't be getting anymore after that.This is pretty obvious stuff. Are you really a reseller of other products? Because the number of obvious mistakes you've made makes me question your business savvy.

 

[levi]

Company X sells mobilephones. One mobilephone will cost Y Dollars. A big european reseller will buy 5000 mobilephones and will get 20% from company X. He calculates his profit and sells the phones for X+20%. So he will have about 34% profit.

Where does the reseller get the other 80% of her stock from? And if X is a company, then she sells it for company+20%? What does that mean?

If someone other would buy from company X and wants only 1 piece he will get the normal price. Including transport he will pay more than he would pay at the reseller. So he wont buy from manufacturer.


The manufacturer will not raise prices because of resellers; but he will give % if the reseller buys big quantities.

Ah, that makes sense. It does penalise the smaller resellers at the expense of the larger ones though, which I guess is something ED has calculated he doesn't want. He'd rather give everyone the same discount per unit, so they have the same pricing opportunities.


You could even argue that ethically, ED ought to sell units to small suppliers for less than for big suppliers who tend to order more. Because the big suppliers can run their margins a lot tighter than small ones, due to economies of scale. But then ED has to start making moral judgements about business partners; simpler to just have the one trade price and stick to it, no?

 

[EvilDragon]

Come on Ed... You can not rotate it as you like.... 

First you say without any waiting time: 

In Germany, the reseller is required to replace the device RIGHT away, without any waiting time, if it is defective!

Well, that has a simple reason: The replacement without any waiting time were before the European Union and internet shops.

You could go back to the store and get a replacement if it was broken from the beginning.

The only reason it could take a few days longer was if the store was out of stock.

Apparently, with the EU laws and internet shops, quite a few things have changed, and I didn't know the exact timeframe out of my head.

And it still says "within a reasonable time frame (usually between 2 - 4 weeks)" in the law.

Whatever the reasonable time frame is. For a common product that can be easily bought on stock, reasonable is probably less than 2 weeks, whereas a custom created product certainly is longer.

It's up to the judge though to decide that reasonable time frame, if it comes to a lawsuit because of that.

But take another company. Company X sells mobilephones. One mobilephone will cost Y Dollars. A big european reseller will buy 5000 mobilephones and will get 20% from company X. He calculates his profit and sells the phones for X+20%. So he will have about 34% profit.

Don't you see that THAT IS EXACTLY the point?

If Company X sells the mobile phones without that additional margin, they CAN'T GIVE you 20% even if you order 5000. They would make a loss!

If they sell the product for 20% over their production costs, they CANNOT give you a 20% discount whatever amount order, because they won't make any profit from it.

So what they do is exactly this (with estimated numbers as example):

Minimum Profit they want to make: Production Cost Price * 20%

Margin for Resellers: Production Cost Price * 20% * 20%

In this case, they can give you as a reseller 5%, 10% and anything up to 20% discount depending of the quantity you buy - and they would still get their set minimum profit of 20%.

The problem is: As a reseller, you don't KNOW their production cost. You only know what they tell you as sales price.

That's something you seem to ignore here.

If someone other would buy from company X and wants only 1 piece he will get the normal price. Including transport he will pay more than he would pay at the reseller. So he wont buy from manufacturer.

Exactly. But THIS IS EXACTLY what you DON'T want me to do!

You claim I should NOT have that higher price - you want that I sell A SINGLE PYRA for the same price to a customer than what I would sell it to A RESELLER!

It's actually absurd.

You tell me I should not raise the price because of resellers, then you explain me that other companies do it exactly like that. 

The manufacturer will not raise prices because of resellers; but he will give % if the reseller buys big quantities.

And to be able to give you %, he needs to rise the price upfront, otherwise he would be able to give you any discount.

What YOU actually ask from me is:

A Pyra will have an estimated price of 400 EUR.

If a reseller buys 5000 from me, he'd have to pay 400 EUR per unit.

If a customer buys one from me, he'd also have to pay 400 EUR per unit.

Why?

Simple - you claim I should NOT raise the price for the resellers, so I also cannot give a discount as I would lose my profit which cannot be afforded.

How many resellers would do that, what do you think?

Yes, and still, whatever high quantity you buy: The manufacturer will NOT sell the product to you without making profit, and certainly not with making loss.

 Sure they wont sell the products without any profit. Thats not what I wanted! 

If you sell them for 400 Euros you will make profit!! You already calculated it in the 400!!!

Exactly! I will make profit if I sell them for 400 EUR.

But you ask that I sell it for the same price to the end customer as I sell it to any reseller.

I simply won't be able to give a discount, regardless how many units a reseller buys.

Additionally, you confirm exactly what I say: The price he sells the product to the end customer is HIGHER than the price he sells the product to your company. The quantity doesn't make a difference, as he will NEVER sell it without making a bit of profit or with making a loss to you. So he COULD sell it for the same price to end customers as well. Which is what YOU want ME to do.   So you are actually confirming that your manufacturers are doing it in the same way that I do...

 Sure the quantity make a difference :-D 

If we buy large quantitys at once we will get a better price. All companys I buy from make it so...

ARGH! You're driving me crazy right now!

I'm telling you the SAME THING (which is easy to understand, in my opinion) for the xth time now...

How can the COMPANY you BUY from can give you DISCOUNT for large quantities, if they they had NOT included that possibility in their price calculation upfront! 

IT WON'T WORK.

And no. All companys we buy dont raise their prices because of us. Who are we that they should do that?

Not because of you, but for ALL resellers.

Every company has a MINIMUM CALCULATED PROFIT they need to make for their product.

If they want to give a reseller up to 20% discount, they need to rise the price for 20% - because otherwise they will NOT be able to give those 20% discount while keeping their minimum set profit per product.

They produce a product and have a price. We buy it like many others buy it. We buy bigger quantitys so we get a better price.

And where do you think the better price for the larger quantities comes from...?

From a magical fairy...?

Producing 400 pcs at once is cheaper that producing 5pcs.....

Not necessarily.

We got good deals with the manufacturers: They give us the price for 10,000 pcs.

Which means the production cost won't change for us for up to 10,000 units.

So whether we produce 1000, 2000 or 5000: The production price is the same.

No reseller will be able to order more than 10,000. So there is no discount possible unless I have that included in the calculation.

What would you say to following: 

I will buy for example 100 Pyras; you give me discont and sell it to me for 400 Euros each.

I can't give you a discount. You don't allow me to add the margin that makes it possible to give you a discount.

Unless you order more than 10,000 units

I can make you the following deal (based on what you want from me):

You buy 100 Pyras for 430 EUR. With shipping costs, import tax, handling, warehouse, etc., you'll probably have a cost of 480 - 500 EUR per Pyra in the end.

I will still sell it for 430 EUR to every customer who wants to buy one.

I don't care for what you price you want to sell it. You're welcome to sell it for 430 EUR yourself. Well, you'd make a loss of 50 - 70 EUR per unit, but that's not my problem.

Oh, you planned to make at least 15% profit? Well, with 480 - 500 EUR cost per unit, you'd have to sell them for about 560 EUR each.

What, you think no one would buy the unit for 560 EUR if I sell it for 430 EUR?

Who cares, that's your problem, I made my profit

But I wouldnt sell them for 500 Euros; I will sell them for 430 Euros.

Even IF I sold them for 400 EUR to you (which is not possible the way you want me to do it), that would barely cover the costs you have.

Why would you sell the Pyra without making profit unless you're a pretty stupid reseller?

What then? Would you also sell it for 430 Euros? How can other resellers hold the price then?

Then all customers over the world would buy from me? (You said they wouldnt buy it anymore from the resellers if someother is cheaper)... 

I would make profit, you would make profit and all customers will get a cheap Pyra. Free market economy! What you say about this?

You would make a loss, I would make profit, you would have to file for bankruptcy and would've lost all other resellers because they couldn't have kept up with your prices.

Sounds like a great idea to ruin a product.

I dont know how much the Pandory did cost at different stores, but Im sure buying from Ed was cheaper!! There it also worked! Why not with the Pyra?

Nope, it wasn't. Well, it was, but only a little bit higher.

I had my minimum profit set, sold it for that price to the resellers (regardless the quantity) and set the price so it was possible for the other resellers to compete.

 

[EvilDragon]

If someone other would buy from company X and wants only 1 piece he will get the normal price. Including transport he will pay more than he would pay at the reseller. So he wont buy from manufacturer.

The manufacturer will not raise prices because of resellers; but he will give % if the reseller buys big quantities.

Ah, that makes sense. It does penalise the smaller resellers at the expense of the larger ones though, which I guess is something ED has calculated he doesn't want. He'd rather give everyone the same discount per unit, so they have the same pricing opportunities.

Even I would give discounts based on the quantity a distributor buys:

This discount has to COME from somewhere, which is exactly that raised end customer price is that I talked about.

You can't give discount if you sell it already to everyone for your minimum profit price.

 

[WizardStan]

unless you're a pretty stupid reseller?

DING DING DING, we have a winner!
ED, I don't know why you're bothering. SoniX is seriously suggesting that you sell to everyone for the exact same price: whether you buy 1 or 1000 you pay X and he doesn't want to hear about you "raising prices" because you want to make money. I'm getting irrationally angry about the stupidity again. I need to get out of here.