Come on Ed... You can not rotate it as you like....
First you say without any waiting time:
In Germany, the reseller is required to replace the device RIGHT away, without any waiting time, if it is defective!
Well, that has a simple reason: The replacement without any waiting time were before the European Union and internet shops.
You could go back to the store and get a replacement if it was broken from the beginning.
The only reason it could take a few days longer was if the store was out of stock.
Apparently, with the EU laws and internet shops, quite a few things have changed, and I didn't know the exact timeframe out of my head.
And it still says "within a reasonable time frame (usually between 2 - 4 weeks)" in the law.
Whatever the reasonable time frame is. For a common product that can be easily bought on stock, reasonable is probably less than 2 weeks, whereas a custom created product certainly is longer.
It's up to the judge though to decide that reasonable time frame, if it comes to a lawsuit because of that.
But take another company. Company X sells mobilephones. One mobilephone will cost Y Dollars. A big european reseller will buy 5000 mobilephones and will get 20% from company X. He calculates his profit and sells the phones for X+20%. So he will have about 34% profit.
Don't you see that THAT IS EXACTLY the point?
If Company X sells the mobile phones without that additional margin, they CAN'T GIVE you 20% even if you order 5000. They would make a loss!
If they sell the product for 20% over their production costs, they CANNOT give you a 20% discount whatever amount order, because they won't make any profit from it.
So what they do is exactly this (with estimated numbers as example):
Minimum Profit they want to make: Production Cost Price * 20%
Margin for Resellers: Production Cost Price * 20% * 20%
In this case, they can give you as a reseller 5%, 10% and anything up to 20% discount depending of the quantity you buy - and they would still get their set minimum profit of 20%.
The problem is: As a reseller, you don't KNOW their production cost. You only know what they tell you as sales price.
That's something you seem to ignore here.
If someone other would buy from company X and wants only 1 piece he will get the normal price. Including transport he will pay more than he would pay at the reseller. So he wont buy from manufacturer.
Exactly. But THIS IS EXACTLY what you DON'T want me to do!
You claim I should NOT have that higher price - you want that I sell A SINGLE PYRA for the same price to a customer than what I would sell it to A RESELLER!
It's actually absurd.
You tell me I should not raise the price because of resellers, then you explain me that other companies do it exactly like that.
The manufacturer will not raise prices because of resellers; but he will give % if the reseller buys big quantities.
And to be able to give you %, he needs to rise the price upfront, otherwise he would be able to give you any discount.
What YOU actually ask from me is:
A Pyra will have an estimated price of 400 EUR.
If a reseller buys 5000 from me, he'd have to pay 400 EUR per unit.
If a customer buys one from me, he'd also have to pay 400 EUR per unit.
Why?
Simple - you claim I should NOT raise the price for the resellers, so I also cannot give a discount as I would lose my profit which cannot be afforded.
How many resellers would do that, what do you think?
Yes, and still, whatever high quantity you buy: The manufacturer will NOT sell the product to you without making profit, and certainly not with making loss.
Sure they wont sell the products without any profit. Thats not what I wanted!
If you sell them for 400 Euros you will make profit!! You already calculated it in the 400!!!
Exactly! I will make profit if I sell them for 400 EUR.
But you ask that I sell it for the same price to the end customer as I sell it to any reseller.
I simply won't be able to give a discount, regardless how many units a reseller buys.
Additionally, you confirm exactly what I say: The price he sells the product to the end customer is HIGHER than the price he sells the product to your company. The quantity doesn't make a difference, as he will NEVER sell it without making a bit of profit or with making a loss to you. So he COULD sell it for the same price to end customers as well. Which is what YOU want ME to do. So you are actually confirming that your manufacturers are doing it in the same way that I do...
Sure the quantity make a difference :-D
If we buy large quantitys at once we will get a better price. All companys I buy from make it so...
ARGH! You're driving me crazy right now!
I'm telling you the SAME THING (which is easy to understand, in my opinion) for the xth time now...
How can the COMPANY you BUY from can give you DISCOUNT for large quantities, if they they had NOT included that possibility in their price calculation upfront!
IT WON'T WORK.
And no. All companys we buy dont raise their prices because of us. Who are we that they should do that?
Not because of you, but for ALL resellers.
Every company has a MINIMUM CALCULATED PROFIT they need to make for their product.
If they want to give a reseller up to 20% discount, they need to rise the price for 20% - because otherwise they will NOT be able to give those 20% discount while keeping their minimum set profit per product.
They produce a product and have a price. We buy it like many others buy it. We buy bigger quantitys so we get a better price.
And where do you think the better price for the larger quantities comes from...?
From a magical fairy...?
Producing 400 pcs at once is cheaper that producing 5pcs.....
Not necessarily.
We got good deals with the manufacturers: They give us the price for 10,000 pcs.
Which means the production cost won't change for us for up to 10,000 units.
So whether we produce 1000, 2000 or 5000: The production price is the same.
No reseller will be able to order more than 10,000. So there is no discount possible unless I have that included in the calculation.
What would you say to following:
I will buy for example 100 Pyras; you give me discont and sell it to me for 400 Euros each.
I can't give you a discount. You don't allow me to add the margin that makes it possible to give you a discount.
Unless you order more than 10,000 units
I can make you the following deal (based on what you want from me):
You buy 100 Pyras for 430 EUR. With shipping costs, import tax, handling, warehouse, etc., you'll probably have a cost of 480 - 500 EUR per Pyra in the end.
I will still sell it for 430 EUR to every customer who wants to buy one.
I don't care for what you price you want to sell it. You're welcome to sell it for 430 EUR yourself. Well, you'd make a loss of 50 - 70 EUR per unit, but that's not my problem.
Oh, you planned to make at least 15% profit? Well, with 480 - 500 EUR cost per unit, you'd have to sell them for about 560 EUR each.
What, you think no one would buy the unit for 560 EUR if I sell it for 430 EUR?
Who cares, that's your problem, I made my profit
But I wouldnt sell them for 500 Euros; I will sell them for 430 Euros.
Even IF I sold them for 400 EUR to you (which is not possible the way you want me to do it), that would barely cover the costs you have.
Why would you sell the Pyra without making profit unless you're a pretty stupid reseller?
What then? Would you also sell it for 430 Euros? How can other resellers hold the price then?
Then all customers over the world would buy from me? (You said they wouldnt buy it anymore from the resellers if someother is cheaper)...
I would make profit, you would make profit and all customers will get a cheap Pyra. Free market economy! What you say about this?
You would make a loss, I would make profit, you would have to file for bankruptcy and would've lost all other resellers because they couldn't have kept up with your prices.
Sounds like a great idea to ruin a product.
I dont know how much the Pandory did cost at different stores, but Im sure buying from Ed was cheaper!! There it also worked! Why not with the Pyra?
Nope, it wasn't. Well, it was, but only a little bit higher.
I had my minimum profit set, sold it for that price to the resellers (regardless the quantity) and set the price so it was possible for the other resellers to compete.
