How Do We Decide?

[Mattz]

The first 100 people must sign a contract declaring that they must post at least 1 youtube video each demonstrating games and the OS. Everyone enjoys watching demos of the Pandora.

 

[Lobo]

I don't think that they could find a 100 devs who are currently working on Pandora projects. By that I mean:
-folks doing the OS and drivers i.e. guys who have dev boards
-folks without dev boards who have been posting binaries so that people with dev boards can try them out
People in these groups should get a unit.

I'd say a 50/50 distribution would be best.

 

[Elanzer]

The people who spammed F5 for orders to come up are people who have more time on their hands, they're more likely to be serious/advanced with computers in general compared to the people at the end of the line, even if they aren't software developers they'll still get lots of use out of them and be able to give lots of feedback, which contributes to the development process. Lots of advanced users are familiar with linux but can't code anything - they can still configure and find workarounds for issues of the operating system, which aids development.

I doubt there's more than a couple dozen developers for the Pandora.

 

[Vorporeal]

We're all saying the same stuff here, but nobody's really conglomerating the most agreed-with posts into one, so I'll take this opportunity to do just that.

The major complaint that people have with sending the first 100 to devs is that the original "contract"/statement/agreement was that Pandoras would be shipped out on a first-come, first-served basis. Of course, it would be in OPLtd's best interests to uphold this, as customer backlash and dissatisfaction with service is never good for a company, especially one this small that is still trying to get recognized and get their first round of product out the door. This means that they can't ship out the first 100 with no regard for the order in which they were ordered.

The major complaint that people have with strictly sticking to the original order is that these users (as hardcore as they may be) are going to have very little software to test. Another issue brought up by one or two people was that if they did find a problem, a dev might be able to identify and fix the problem, making no extra work for the Pandora team, whereas a normal user might just identify and report it. If devs received the first hundred Pandoras, they'd be able to assist in both writing software and fixing the issues that the device has. This is an IMMENSELY useful resource - one that we shouldn't forget about.

So now the problem arises - how do we combine these two very important methods into one that fulfills the first-come, first-serve "rule", but still gets a good number of early devices out to developers? The answer is simple - you send emails to each of the first hundred people on the list, asking them if they would be willing to be pushed back slightly in the order and have their Pandora be shipped to a developer instead. There would be no compensation for doing this - it would be people making an honest decision as to whether they'd have enough time to thoroughly test it, or if they feel that the extra week or two would be spent better having a developer test the Pandora and get their software working on it. If someone did decide to give their spot up to a developer, they would be moved back to IMMEDIATELY after the first 100, in the same order as they were originally. Meaning, if Order #15 and Order #63 gave up their spots, they would become Order #101 and Order #102, respectively. Any devs who ordered the device normally, but got pushed into the first 100 through this method would give up their original spot in line for their new one.

I'm not stating anything new here, just trying to make one post that summarizes the ideas that have been floating around in this thread. In my opinion, this is both a good solution (gets a decent number of the first hundred out to developers), and an acceptable solution (doesn't replace people's spot in line without their consent). If anyone has any ideas/additions/changes they feel should be made to this to improve it, make yourself heard - it's in ALL of our interests to come up with a good way of distributing the first hundred Pandoras.

 

[gp2.eXe]

I'd love one, but the devs need them more... poos!

rick

Who decides who is an official dev?

I mean, I've been working on a game intended for my Pandy when it arrives, so does that mean I get one first? Yeah, that sounds like a good idea

I've been intending to work on a game for my Pandy when it arrives, so does that mean I get one first too? Yeah, that also sounds like a good idea

 

[kloplop321]

Vorporeal, I also think that the free-will and email idea is a very good one. People won't be unhappy, and they will not need to wait long, but they will have more to "play" with once the other 3900 is released.

 

[Phawx]

@GodGinrai

I believe everyone is not really estimating the time required and what these first 100 represent. The topic title is sensational and makes it seem like we need to be absolutely certain we divvy this test batch absolutely perfectly.

There really is no reason to give them to devs, because if after the two weeks is over and no problems are found, they can start cranking out the orders to all who've paid. I think seeing 100 Pandora's fully completed will have a lot of us breathe a huge sigh of relief. Because it won't be waiting for this to be done or that to be done. They will start to be tested as completed units. During this time, they might want to fire one off to the FCC and get it certified.

 

[lulzfish]

The development will get done eventually anyway. I say we just stay with the FIFO queue and don't worry about developers outside the OP team too much.

 

[God Ginrai]

We're all saying the same stuff here, but nobody's really conglomerating the most agreed-with posts into one, so I'll take this opportunity to do just that.

The major complaint that people have with sending the first 100 to devs is that the original "contract"/statement/agreement was that Pandoras would be shipped out on a first-come, first-served basis. Of course, it would be in OPLtd's best interests to uphold this, as customer backlash and dissatisfaction with service is never good for a company, especially one this small that is still trying to get recognized and get their first round of product out the door. This means that they can't ship out the first 100 with no regard for the order in which they were ordered.

The major complaint that people have with strictly sticking to the original order is that these users (as hardcore as they may be) are going to have very little software to test. Another issue brought up by one or two people was that if they did find a problem, a dev might be able to identify and fix the problem, making no extra work for the Pandora team, whereas a normal user might just identify and report it. If devs received the first hundred Pandoras, they'd be able to assist in both writing software and fixing the issues that the device has. This is an IMMENSELY useful resource - one that we shouldn't forget about.

So now the problem arises - how do we combine these two very important methods into one that fulfills the first-come, first-serve "rule", but still gets a good number of early devices out to developers? The answer is simple - you send emails to each of the first hundred people on the list, asking them if they would be willing to be pushed back slightly in the order and have their Pandora be shipped to a developer instead. There would be no compensation for doing this - it would be people making an honest decision as to whether they'd have enough time to thoroughly test it, or if they feel that the extra week or two would be spent better having a developer test the Pandora and get their software working on it. If someone did decide to give their spot up to a developer, they would be moved back to IMMEDIATELY after the first 100, in the same order as they were originally. Meaning, if Order #15 and Order #63 gave up their spots, they would become Order #101 and Order #102, respectively. Any devs who ordered the device normally, but got pushed into the first 100 through this method would give up their original spot in line for their new one.

I'm not stating anything new here, just trying to make one post that summarizes the ideas that have been floating around in this thread. In my opinion, this is both a good solution (gets a decent number of the first hundred out to developers), and an acceptable solution (doesn't replace people's spot in line without their consent). If anyone has any ideas/additions/changes they feel should be made to this to improve it, make yourself heard - it's in ALL of our interests to come up with a good way of distributing the first hundred Pandoras.

+1.

-God Ginrai

 

[MDave]

I was there when pre-orders just started getting taken, and I hope my spot doesn't get bumped up out of the first 100, if I am in the first 100. Why? Well, I'm developing a game for it and I was hoping to have it available on launch So you could say I'm a developer, and I did design the matchbox theme for them at least (and get me a chance to tweak it up further once I see what it looks like on real hardware ... ).

 

[gruso]

Having slept on it, and skimmed through the thread & blog comments, here's what I think.

- 50 units to the first 50 people in the queue. You'll risk not getting any feedback from them, but it's the fair thing to do.
- 25 units to game & software devs. It should be easy to pick 25 standouts from the Projects page on the wiki.
- 25 units to other orderers, who commit to a range of thorough testing & giving feedback.

 

[gruso]

I'm procrastinating at work this morning, so I made a list. This is taken straight from the wiki. Once you remove all the devs who already have dev boards, and all the entries without names, this is basically what's left. It's a quick cull of a lot of text, so please forgive any errors.

Gentoo Linux javaJake, Viridior
Caster Svartalf
Galactic Artifact Trevor Bradley
Giannas Return Giannas Team
Gravity Blocks Awakening
Homeworld Port LinuxHacker
Human Condition Butterman
Lerp benjymous
Monster! Chris R
NAEV bobbens
Nails Adventure jsmtux/Mr. Gonzo
Pandora Panic! PokeParadox / GP32X Community
Pandora Pool Panic Unfathomable Depths
PanMMO Eniko
Rise of The Triad arrrgh
Super Lumenal, Zdoom, uHexen2, GemRB Adventus
We Come In Peace, gloost Otaco
Where in world is.., Simple Dev Studio, PND Maker, Pandora Sync Suite, Inside The Box StreaK
XSwing Plus Tobse
ZEQ2Lite MDave
Zombd iprice/Mr Gonzo
Caprice32 hdonk
Fuse, SIMH SteveM
Jzintv WizardStan
NullDC Zezu / drkIIraziel
Pandora-PSP JayFoxRox
Temper Exophase
Tempest Firefox
NSS Engine No Siesta Studios
Quad-Ren 2D Hessiess
Pangea GUI efegea
Qemu Fabrice Bellard
Scale Zoxc64
ZiB Aimless_E

There are about 35 names here. The list should be further narrowed down to those that with near complete software. I've certainly got a top ten in mind but I'll keep that to myself for now. ^_^

 

[wardred]

I know the run of the first 100 are to find problems. Either with the board, the case, the screen, software, manufacturing, assembly, heck with the boxes to put the things in to ship. I don't think all of them should go to the end users. I definitely think that CraigX and other devs should have a chance to put these "final prototype" Pandoras through their paces. That said, are there really 100 people that would fit this category? So I'd see at least one unit with Craig - assuming he doesn't test all 100 at least a little bit before shipping, one unit with Evil Dragon, one unit with Pickle, and one unit for any of the other hardware/software devs that have been consistently contributing to make sure everything is working properly. (Like the guy doing the nub testing.) I don't know if that's a dozen people, 25 people, or 50 people, but it didn't seem like the list was too large. Let's say 25. The others would go to the remaining 100, assuming that they wanted to get the "Final Prototype" Pandoras. I'd give them an option to pass if they want to make sure that the things are perfect.

 

[danielliu88888]

the best developer on the list is GP32X community, yes i think so. we should send pandoras to that developer ^_^

 

[Kramy]

I'm making a little arcade game - but it's coded in Java and depends on LWJGL, so it won't be immediately ported to the Pandora.

If you could get a Pandora to whoever can work on LWJGL's ES 1.1 or 2.0 support, that'd be great.

Beyond that I'd say give them to any devs with active projects that can be released soon after they begin testing, and also to active community members that can do Youtube videos and stuff.

That's about 50 members. Beyond that, go in order.

 

[hells_dark]

We should ask what do we want at start…
A lot of games can wait…
A sexy interface, an emulator frontend, some emulators… this is important.

 

[gruso]

It's worth remembering that we're only talking about a short period of time between the first ones going out, and the rest of the batch going out. Projects like (for example) Human Condition or NullDCe won't be done in a few weeks, whether these guys get hardware or not. But things like PandoraPanic, Galactic Artifact, and We Come In Peace probably could. Guys like Exophase, Firefox and Adventus could probably churn out some stuff quickly too.

 

[VRAndy]

It's worth remembering that we're only talking about a short period of time between the first ones going out, and the rest of the batch going out.

Hopefully.

Projects like (for example) Human Condition or NullDCe won't be done in a few weeks, whether these guys get hardware or not. But things like PandoraPanic, Galactic Artifact, and We Come In Peace probably could. Guys like Exophase, Firefox and Adventus could probably churn out some stuff quickly too.

I think this conversation is suffering from the same philosophical split that has plagued many other conversations here.

Half of the group is thinking to themselves "It's a game console. You can't ship a game console without games, and a slick launcher! It's just common sense! Why can't people understand that? Are they impatient, greedy or stupid?"

The other half is thinking "It's a computer! I know how to use a computer! Are you telling me there's a chance my place in line might be bumped so someone can write a game? Why are people going along with this? Are they suck ups? Do they really not know how to use a computer? Are they so impatient that they won't be able to go two weeks without playing a game?"

I think the majority of the flame wars on the topic of Pandora are based on this fundamental difference between the two groups of Pandora pre-orderers, and people from each group forgetting that people from the other group exist.

 

[lulzfish]

Half of the group is thinking to themselves "It's a game console. You can't ship a game console without games, and a slick launcher! It's just common sense! Why can't people understand that? Are they impatient, greedy or stupid?"

The other half is thinking "It's a computer! I know how to use a computer! Are you telling me there's a chance my place in line might be bumped so someone can write a game? Why are people going along with this? Are they suck ups? Do they really not know how to use a computer? Are they so impatient that they won't be able to go two weeks without playing a game?"

PRECISELY.
I'm here thinking, "It's a computer with nearly every possible connection to the outside world. Just ship the damn things and let the updates happen once the pre-order queue has been processed!"

Also because I want to get my second-batch order in without any delays because of deciding who gets the Pandoras that they ALREADY decided to ship to 3900 people in first-come, first-serve order.

Edit: Not to mention that the Pandora is basically shipping with the entire library of <= PS1 console games available.

 

[God Ginrai]

It's worth remembering that we're only talking about a short period of time between the first ones going out, and the rest of the batch going out.

Hopefully.

Projects like (for example) Human Condition or NullDCe won't be done in a few weeks, whether these guys get hardware or not. But things like PandoraPanic, Galactic Artifact, and We Come In Peace probably could. Guys like Exophase, Firefox and Adventus could probably churn out some stuff quickly too.

I think this conversation is suffering from the same philosophical split that has plagued many other conversations here.

Half of the group is thinking to themselves "It's a game console. You can't ship a game console without games, and a slick launcher! It's just common sense! Why can't people understand that? Are they impatient, greedy or stupid?"

The other half is thinking "It's a computer! I know how to use a computer! Are you telling me there's a chance my place in line might be bumped so someone can write a game? Why are people going along with this? Are they suck ups? Do they really not know how to use a computer? Are they so impatient that they won't be able to go two weeks without playing a game?"

I think the majority of the flame wars on the topic of Pandora are based on this fundamental difference between the two groups of Pandora pre-orderers, and people from each group forgetting that people from the other group exist.

Don't forget the people who are thinking "There's already a lot of stuff ported to this game console, I can busy myself with that for now." I mean think about how much already is ported. These people who are claiming that we would have nothing to do if we weren't a dev don't seem to realize that a good amount of stuff already has been ported. I'm not making a request in either direction, but I will say that I could easily busy myself for a couple of months with just what has currently been ported to the Pandora.

-God Ginrai