Any News From The Assembly Line ?

[EvilDragon]

I just wonder what happened to that webcam that was supposed to be installed in the town hall. It would probably help a bit to appease the mob

Also had been said various times: I had my Netbook with my webcam ready... but my Netbook didn't get WiFi in the hall.
So the only thing you can see on the Mass production Webcam I tried to setup is a view from my couch where the webcam was lying the day before I left to UK... that's when I set up the software on my netbook.

Sure people are impatient - but what can we do? It's easier once we have all those 3000 cases here.
I said multiple times on these and other boards already, about 500 have been delivered, 200 more arrived last week, I finished the LCD cable soldering on Thursday and shipped them via express to Craig. They got there on Friday (two days ago) and now he is busy bulding those 200 Pandoras...

Until that date, every two or three days Pandoras left the stores (as you could also see by all those "I got my Pandora" or the "I got my eMail!"-Posts.

So... what else do you want to know?

I will not guesstimate anything about the rest, since you all know the Chinese company by now and know that they will deliver SOMETIME, but surely not when they tell us they will...
Until we get those cases, nothing really can be said that hasn't been said already...

 

[moxie]

@moxie
While I do agree with you (in terms of just being patient), I feel it's a bit naive to berate those who feel like they need answers.

I have no problem with those who feel they need answers. However, those that already has all the answers that exist and still nag for more irritate me a bit. Those that demand that those missing, not-existing answers are given NOW, damnit, coz otherwise they'll BE DRAMATIC irritate me a bit more. And those who do this on a weekend have my undying contempt.

Some people forget that Craig, ED et al are human beings. They are allowed to actully have free time. They are allowed to actually be online and, you know, relax. They are not our personal slaves. The comment about there being no reason for this information to be given NOW, because Craig had been online today, or whatever, just takes the cake. What kind of entitlement sense do one need to expect someone to be your personal information slave, even on a weekend? I'm nonplussed. It is a good thing that ED, Craig et all ar better men than me, 'cause if I did this work and logged on to read that line, I'd seriously say "I don't need this shit" and just cancel the whole thing, mortgages be damned.

You *always* have to remember that OP used *our* money to fund this project. Therefore, *to some people* we are in a sense, investors. And our only return is the Pandora (which I accept as a proper return for my money, instead of interest).

And believe me, investors come down MUCH harder on the investee than this forum has.

Yes and no. What the investor does, if he is not pleased, is that he withdraws his support. He does not stand in the foyer of the factory, throwing temper tantrums on a sunday. If Magic Sam feels it is not worth the wait, he should cancel. If he feels he is not getting the information he feels is needed for his support, he should withdraw that support. Simple as that. Nothing is gained, neither in quality of information, nor quality of the end product, nor speed of delivery, by acting like this. Nothing.

However, calling people stupid and comparing them to 6 year olds (they would have been 4-ish when this project started btw) is uncalled for IMO. It doesn't seem like you are recognizing this angle, so I thought I'd highlight it for you.

I do recognize that angle. I have also been around long enough (and so has Magic Sam) to recognize that as soon as there is positive news to tell, they are told. If no news is told, that is because nothing newsworthy has come to pass.

And yes, it was uncalled for to compare with 6 year olds. As the thread later showed, that was doing wrong to the 6 year olds.

 

[mali]

^ Are you ready to come down now?

 

[hedwards]

I have to admit that this would be a more pleasant forum were Craig to go back to cancelling orders of people causing trouble.

How can you not understand the reasons for this "unpleasantness"

Take a step back, 2 years ago we gave money to people for a product we were lead to believe would be in our hands within a month or so - 24> months later we're still waiting.

If I borrowed money from a bank 2 years ago on the provision I would give it back 2 months later, and then still hadn't paid up two years later, I think they'd be barking up my door too.

I paid my money down like the rest of you did. Buy that's no excuse for bad behavior. Sure we funded it, just not enough for this kind of self important pissiness.

 

[Dead1nside]

I understand why you don't want to give an estimate on the case, because so far the Chinese company have not met their own deadlines and have not been consistent either. However do you have any inclination about the boards? How many are they successfully producing and testing to ship out each week?

Thank you.

 

[moxie]

^ Are you ready to come down now?

Yes. I don't think I need to express my feelings on this matter in any further detail.

 

[Eniko]

People need to chillax and go focus on something else for a while. And yes, I haven't gotten my Pandora yet either, and yes I took my own advice.

 

[spikeyxx]

I have to admit that this would be a more pleasant forum were Craig to go back to cancelling orders of people causing trouble.

How can you not understand the reasons for this "unpleasantness"

Take a step back, 2 years ago we gave money to people for a product we were lead to believe would be in our hands within a month or so - 24> months later we're still waiting.

If I borrowed money from a bank 2 years ago on the provision I would give it back 2 months later, and then still hadn't paid up two years later, I think they'd be barking up my door too.

I paid my money down like the rest of you did. Buy that's no excuse for bad behavior. Sure we funded it, just not enough for this kind of self important pissiness.

My God, I am sick of apologetic people like you arrogantly dismissing the concerns of others when vocalized, as "bad behaviour".

 

[Sphinxter]

I would have taken the day off.

 

[moxie]

My God, I am sick of apologetic people like you arrogantly dismissing the concerns of others when vocalized, as "bad behaviour".

I'm not going to talk any more about the "bad behaviour" bit - I think I've done enough of that already.

However, to try to make the civil part of my point a bit, turn your questions around - "We were told 2 years back that it would be within our hands within months", right? Well, I can't remember we did, actually, but still, assume it: How would it help you if Craig said, now: "You'll have it within a month, promise!". By your own words, he already did that. It didn't help much. Since then, we have had quite a few optimistic announcements, and almost as many dejected retractions. Every time it seemed everything was in order and the project would finally just rush ahead, something else came up. Back and forth, back and forth. And by this I do not mean to say that the OP Team are particularily untrustable - some of it is probably down to inexperience, other parts to external factors (Financial crisis, Volcanoes), still other parts to changing specs, and some of it possibly to wilful over-optimism - but still: Specific information from OPT has not been very good. Ever, through this project. Since you say you have been on this train for two years, you know this very well by now.

So: Why do you want another prediction?

The point I tried to make with the "stop being stupid" part is this: No matter how much you want it to, more information from Craig will not help you. Not this time, not last time, not the time before that. The team is very good on being enthusiastic, on designing and specing hardware, on getting together the work of very talented contributors, and so on, and the result is (apparently, since I don't have mine either) a beautiful, excellent handheld machine. But they can't predict worth shit, honestly. I hope (and I don't think) that ED or Craig will take offence at this statement, because it is true. In what way would another prediction help you? The "stupid" part is that it is stupid to keep believing that the next estimate will be spot on, when the previous 2, 3, 4, 5...has been off.

Are you feeling anxious and stressed about the delivery time of your pandora? Well, the OPT team can't help you with this. This has been shown enough times by now. The ability to deal with that stress lies only with yourself. You mentioned something like a timeline, that if it was to arrive in 1 month, that'd be ok, if two, you had to think about it, and so on...well, that is your possibility to create your own solution, then. Make yourself a deadline. If it hasn't arrived in two months time, cancel. If you do not trust OPT anymore to deliver the Pandora to you in what you'd deem a reasonable timeframe (and of course, what constitutes a "reasonable" timeframe is also up to you) then cancel.

This is not intended to be read as a brushing off - "If you don't like it, then cancel you order!" - but as a calm, rational reasoning. You, yourself, has to decide what your limits are. I advocate that you do this, calmly and rationally, by figuring out for yourself your own limits and reasons (this is uncontroversial). I also advocate that you consciously decide to not let this reasoning depend on any sort of delivery timeline or queue number or whatever given by OPT. In fact, I suggest that it would be "stupid" to do so, since predictions of that kind has frequently been wrong. When there is delivery reports or pictures of mass production or whatever, read, enjoy, be happy that your own panda is getting closer, but do not attempt to figure out your own delivery date from any of this. It will cause you unwanted expectations, which will fail, and which will upset you. Just Don't Do It. Figure it out for yourself. Make your own deadlines. Stay by it. Relax in the summer. It is only you yourself that will, in the end, be able to influence your own state of mind.

For extra credit, read Marcus Aurelius "Meditations"

 

[hedwards]

My God, I am sick of apologetic people like you arrogantly dismissing the concerns of others when vocalized, as "bad behaviour".

Wow, so it's suddenly reasonable to expect people to work nonstop giving information they don't have. And unreasonable to expect some decorum and manners?

I don't think that it's unreasonable to expect at least minimal manners when requesting information.

 

[Bigun]

I have a few predictions I'd like to add:

1) This thread will end up locked
2) A mod or admin will lose their temper by insulting a user
3) A user will lose their temper by insulting a mod or admin
4) Nothing will be gained

Three down, one to go.

Now as to the OP, he never asked for a prediction, he only asked for an update... he also never specified that he wanted it now. I can see where the assumption can be drawn by the whole "post existed for more than 18 hours and still no reply", but a simple "You'll probably have an answer Monday" would have probably did the job. Going through a three paragraph expose will only make users withdraw from giving feedback and in the long run and will only cause them to tear away from OpenPadora and the goal of an opensource project in the first place.

I for one vote to lock the thread, and just either re-open it on Monday or start a new one on Monday with the same topic and go from there.

 

[EvilDragon]

I have a few predictions I'd like to add:

1) This thread will end up locked
2) A mod or admin will lose their temper by insulting a user
3) A user will lose their temper by insulting a mod or admin
4) Nothing will be gained

Three down, one to go.

Now as to the OP, he never asked for a prediction, he only asked for an update... he also never specified that he wanted it now. I can see where the assumption can be drawn by the whole "post existed for more than 18 hours and still no reply", but a simple "You'll probably have an answer Monday" would have probably did the job. Going through a three paragraph expose will only make users withdraw from giving feedback and in the long run and will only cause them to tear away from OpenPadora and the goal of an opensource project in the first place.

I for one vote to lock the thread, and just either re-open it on Monday or start a new one on Monday with the same topic and go from there.

Heck, ALL THE QUESTIONS he asked have been ANSWERED already!
Except for the one how the team is doing - and that's something ONLY CRAIG KNOWS how hasn't even posted much during the last days since HE IS BUSY BUILDING the Pandoras (and thas has been said dozens of times already, even in this thread!)

WHAT update should we give if ALL CURRENT UPDATES have been given already?

 

[moxie]

I have a few predictions I'd like to add:

1) This thread will end up locked
2) A mod or admin will lose their temper by insulting a user
3) A user will lose their temper by insulting a mod or admin
4) Nothing will be gained

Three down, one to go.

Do note that I'm neither a mod nor an admin. I am not ED.

Now as to the OP, he never asked for a prediction, he only asked for an update... he also never specified that he wanted it now. [...] Going through a three paragraph expose will only make users withdraw from giving feedback [...]

Also note that those are answers to two different people with two different questions. Magic Sam most certainly wanted an answer two his questions NOW. Spikeyxx was anxious about his delivery time (back on page 2 or something). Different people, different replies.

 

[Bigun]

Heck, ALL THE QUESTIONS he asked have been ANSWERED already!
Except for the one how the team is doing - and that's something ONLY CRAIG KNOWS how hasn't even posted much during the last days since HE IS BUSY BUILDING the Pandoras (and thas has been said dozens of times already, even in this thread!)

WHAT update should we give if ALL CURRENT UPDATES have been given already?

Easy with the caps lock mister.

I understand all of that, I'm saying that nothing really has been gained via this thread.

 

[Bigun]

Do note that I'm neither a mod nor an admin. I am not ED.

Not pinning you here.

Also note that those are answers to two different people with two different questions. Magic Sam most certainly wanted an answer two his questions NOW. Spikeyxx was anxious about his delivery time (back on page 2 or something). Different people, different replies.

I'll admit, my mistake.

 

[Creature XL]

People need to chillax and go focus on something else for a while. And yes, I haven't gotten my Pandora yet either, and yes I took my own advice.

Yeah. What about teh FIFA WorldCup?
I didn't even want my P until it ends.

Just TRY to relax, watch football (or soccer for some of you) and if you still have spare time do something for the Pandora.
I am doing a mini-game for PandoraPanic between the matches

 

[sehs33]

Well... it's known that I get a quarter of the units, therefore 250 and Craig 750 out of those 1000.
We need to keep a few for RMAs and some of the boards may be dead on arrival, so we need to send them back to be fixed.

Quick question ED, what about orders placed via Fatih's store? Are we so few that every 1001 units only one unit will be for us

 

[Magic Sam]

Hi everybody

I missed you !

@panik: no offence dude

@Fishbong: I'm not impatient (well, a bit, like anyone else), I'm not complaining, I just asked for some update. I knew it was Sunday, I didn't expect an answer NOW, a simple "more news tomorrow" would have been fine...

@Moxie: please be polite, I just asked for some news, no big deal... The Pandora is worth the wait, I'll not withdraw my support, I just wanted a small update...

BUT GOOD NEWS: I now have all the information I wanted, though no OPT members actually answered me...

Thanks Alerino for quoting twitter, it's quite useful... "Full time Pandora building resumes today". It means that the past week assembly had stopped, or was only part time, probably because of the training period, and the fact that, as ED said, Craig only received the boards on Friday.

The assembly, which was expected to happen last week, will actually start this week, THAT'S ALL I WANTED TO KNOW !

Now feel free to insult me, ban me, ask for my order number, I couldn't care less, because I was right to ask for this information.

@ Craig: how is the new hired assembly team going ?

Bye, Magic Sam

 

[Chairman_Now]

Again I think we're getting to a point where people are demanding things that the team isnt comfortable answering because even THEY dont have the info to give an answer that everyone will be happy with. If they give an estimate like all 1000 will be completed by the end of the month and someone who was told that they're in the 800-900 range still doesnt get a shipping confirmation email by July then there'll be rage regardless of the reason that it didnt happen. They dont ship them to customers directly from the hall so all the build crew knows is that they made x amount of systems so far.

Frankly it seems to me that giving out queue information created an expectation that may be leading to some of the disappointment. If the GBAX queue doesnt take into account ED's queue and ED gets a quarter of the first 1000 than someone told they're around 800-900 may not get their system until china ships the rest of the 3000 cases which is going to be well into July if they can mange to ship at all in the next two months. I'm not trying to stir things up, I'm just being realistic, but no one really wants to hear that and if they're really in the heat of trying to buid these things the last things they want to do is step into the forums, create a huge flame war and then have to spent 8 hours trying to calm people down.

Well... it's known that I get a quarter of the units, therefore 250 and Craig 750 out of those 1000.
We need to keep a few for RMAs and some of the boards may be dead on arrival, so we need to send them back to be fixed.

As we have no idea, how many will be bad (might be 10%, might be 5%) and how long it will take to fix them, it's hard to give a good guesstimation then.

For the next 3000... well, you know how reliable the Chinese company has been with dates, so we keep bugging them and until we get the cases, we can't tell you anything.

So... what else do you need to know?

Here's a pretty solid guess, and it is just based on the numbers, some email from Jacquelyn, and past behavior of the OP team. That's all that matters to me at this point - I don't care about webcams, new assemblers, etc.

I'd speculate that the OP team can fill in all of the blanks mentioned below, but are purposely causing some uncertainty by not doing so. Why? I'd guess that the OP team has made the calculation that keeping people in the dark will result in less cancellations, and that mass cancellations would be fatal to them at this point. They do not want to see mass numbers of customers "defect" to another device should one appear, and with the flood of ARM-based stuff showing up all the time, it is a real possibility.

Speculation aside, we know that 500 units have shipped out (mentioned elsewhere in this thread). Of those, 1/4 went to ED's customers. So the best, non-existent case is that that 375 went to GBAX customers. I already have email from OP that infers otherwise.

Aside from ED, some presumably went to Turkish customers. Some presumably were broken, with headed back for RMA replacement. Some probably went to "preferential" customers. Some are probably being held for review units. Some are going to the "one-nub club", who are presumably higher on the list than the high hundreds. Let's call this the "slop factor".

We don't know if this slop factor is being spread across all distributors, or if it only applies to Craig's customers. Just another piece of information that we're not being given.

Considering all of this, GBAX may have shipped no more than 300 units thus far. This is consistent with the fact that there are people that are as low at 250-350 in the GBAX queue that haven't gotten a notification yet. DrCJBoduma, I'm talking about you. If you have been less than accurate, fess up so I can recalibrate my expectations But if he's being truthful, that means that the "slop factor" is worse than is being let on.

Applying the same pessimism, it means that as few as 120 units of the next 200 will go to Craig's queue. Folks at 400 or below should almost certainly get a unit in the nearish future. Yay, I'm one of the 400-500 folks.

Now, it is my understanding that the boards are showing up, and that OP should be able to get to around 1000 units built before the dreaded China Syndrome stikes again. Which means that folks under 500 should also get a unit, in the less nearish future. Yay, I'm one of the 400-500 folks

Therefore, and with perhaps another dose of Murphy's Law just for good measure (i.e., new assemblers):

Folks above 500 may have to wait for China. Folks over 600 will almost definitely wait for China. Folks over 700 will absolutely be waiting for China. So, if you're under 700, you can be patient for another month. And if you're higher than 700, well, you're back to the Chinese version of Another Two Months almost certainly.