Has *anybody* received a refund from OpenPandora Ltd (Craig's) in 2013?

[darkborn]

+1

 

[MaxNormal]

Heck Darkborn - sure people are upset and feel like they've been taken for a ride. This has all gone on for so long now (4 years plus) that Craig's "operation blame ED" is just tiresome. Why bother to deal with Craig at all - he never seems to learn anything about dealing with people.

I think after all this time there's no point kicking up a fuss - Craig won't change, ED will keep on working his way through the queue, and whenever the next issue comes up Craig will blame ED. The soap opera gets boring after a while.

 

[vcoleiro1]

I just sure hope someone makes a doco out of all this one day.  Like Micro Men

 

[mmKALLL]

I did say that I'd like some argument to enjoy my popcorn with, but imo that is way over the board. I think that it's uncalled for to rage this much, even if it's because your imagination likes to take new spins on things others have said. I can't prove that Craig hasn't used money from this project to fund his personal affairs, but I can't prove it right either. And neither can you - at least with that brain of yours. And that goes for quite a few people across this entire thread. In my opinion, it's wrong to assume that Craig has used all the money for his personal affairs just because it's the most infuriating option of them all. There are quite a few alternatives, and being the empathetic person I am, I'd believe that there is still good reason behind Craig's judgement, and that the lack of communication doesn't necessarily mean that he has done illegal stuff. If he has, then I'd like proof, rather than accusations without a foundation.

There are different ways to read others' posts, but I think that it's not alright to twist others' words so that they suit whatever you'd like to hear best. Rather, it's much better to be objective and not try to make things up or put words into others' mouths. It was not without risk that you paid 300e or more for a device that's not yet ready for immediate shipping. In my opinion, it's very clear that there's a risk involved - and I hope that at least after this experience, you'll learn to be more critical as well. Personally, I'd take the risk in hopes of getting an unit regardless, did I not own one now and the situation be like it was back then.

The people who are in Craig's lines are likely to receive an unit, in my opinion. Because of ED funding these units out of what could be his personal profit. To the people who are claiming that it's a bad thing to do - while I agree that being incapable of paying debts is a bad thing, what ED is doing here is commendable and noble, and as far as I know, his personal decision. I'm a bit fuzzy on the details, though, but I'm fairly sure that ED could stop sending these units to unhappy customers if he chose to.

 

[elwing]

hum

/just got hit by a huge wall of caps-locked text...

 Lucky you that you did not hit by a meaning of all of those.

I am happy that I am surrounded with people that are milked for 3+ years and cool as ice.

OK, Yoda, give your bank account to mr. C. Obviously you don't have to be worried about, because he is not using caps lock.

you're not wrong, but that wasn't a good idea to say it like that, now craig will hide under his rock for a few more month before coming out again... it's not really productive... and being angry with craig doesn't mean you can simply forgot the forum etiquette, there's no point punishing all other readers

 

[pmprog]

If not getting your Pandora or a refund is this severe then you probably didn't show the best judgment in ordering it. If that's not the case then calm the fuck down.

I didn't read any of darkborn's post (tl;dr), but to be fair, things can change a lot in four years. Things might have been more cushy back when the order was placed. Granted you still wouldn't have the money, but you would have a unit you could sell if things were really bad.

 

[moxie]

 In my opinion, it's wrong to assume that Craig has used all the money for his personal affairs just because it's the most infuriating option of them all. [...] If he has, then I'd like proof, rather than accusations without a foundation.

This.

 

[ZXDunny]

I just sure hope someone makes a doco out of all this one day.  Like Micro Men

Craig: Jet Set Fucking Willy!

Us: Wtf?

Craig: I make a remake of Jet Set Willy - don't you guys know who I am??

D.

 

[Klumpen]

I knew a similar guy like C, who did a great business, but he -took money where ever he could, and share around promises and nothing more... After some time, he got broken fingers every here and then, and then disappeared. I think somebody did something really bad to him.

Why do you think he needed the money so desperately in the first place...

The best reason I could think about for Craig holding his information back is also the worst case (for him) and regarding his investors...

Think about it. I will say no more and really hope, that Craig is not in that much trouble.

 

[darkborn]

I'm pissed off because this freak is gone for months, and now came back to tell us - f*ck you all, blame ED not me.

I know that it is show for other people, but I don't want to be part of it (more than I have to).

I gave money to Craig, not ED and I did it for this project, not for hearing this sh*t after... 4 years? OMG.

I'm sure that ED will make pre-orders fullfiled if there is any chance to do it completely... still I can't believe that Craig came to forum just to... wash his hands of any guilt.

So many lies, so many wrong decisions through years... and no shame! What a guy!
No info about cables, about list, about numbers... so we are all bunch of stupid naives...

I really want to Pandora goes on, and - why not - Pandora 2, with same team - just not Craig.

Funny is that I was surprised when people exploded like I did today, before 3 years, then 2 years ago...

Anybody remembers "Unofficial Pandora Blog", "PandoraPress" and Gruso now or we are all fishes?

Every now and then there were guys like me, proving that CR is Ostap Bender, lazy smart guy that lives for that to get something for nothing?

"Great combinator", in deed.

 

[darkborn]

I knew a similar guy like C, who did a great business, but he -took money where ever he could, and share around promises and nothing more... After some time, he got broken fingers every here and then, and then disappeared. I think somebody did something really bad to him.

Why do you think he needed the money so desperately in the first place...

The best reason I could think about for Craig holding his information back is also the worst case (for him) and regarding his investors...

Think about it. I will say no more and really hope, that Craig is not in that much trouble.

It is kind of mental disease, like kleptomania. You know why C is doing this? Because he can. This forum is prove for this. And ICP2 kickstarter. And future projects...

It is not about luck, business model or smartness. He _has_ to do it, no meter how succesfull or rich he is.

 

[vcoleiro1]

The people who are in Craig's lines are likely to receive an unit, in my opinion. Because of ED funding these units out of what could be his personal profit. To the people who are claiming that it's a bad thing to do - while I agree that being incapable of paying debts is a bad thing, what ED is doing here is commendable and noble, and as far as I know, his personal decision. I'm a bit fuzzy on the details, though, but I'm fairly sure that ED could stop sending these units to unhappy customers if he chose to.

Basically the agreement is documented in the Business Plan.  It says that after manufacturing starts at GC , the first 4 batches of 1000 Pandoras built will be used to clear the pre-orders in the following way:

Each batch of 1000 Pandoras built will be split three ways :

1) Some will be sold to fund the production of the next 1000 Pandoras

2) Some will go to EDs pre-orders

3) Some will go to Craigs Pre-orders.

At the end of the 4th batch it was anticipated according to the business plan , that all ED's(500) and Craigs(800) pre-orders would be  cleared.  Due to slow sales , we are not at the 4th batch yet from my understanding

 

[Null]

now craig will hide under his rock for a few more month before coming out again...

He would have done that anyway.

 

[darkborn]

now craig will hide under his rock for a few more month before coming out again...

He would have done that anyway.

Agree totaly. He just came to fake around newbies that stray here... "future customers" and soon-to-be-angry ICP2 supporters.

To put "cards on the table" and "denounce" "Ed's investors"... so it is "pretty much said what he wanted to say" - to cite himself.

 

[ShleeDragon]

now craig will hide under his rock for a few more month before coming out again...

He would have done that anyway.

Agree totaly. He just came to fake around newbies that stray here... "future customers" and soon-to-be-angry ICP2 supporters.

To put "cards on the table" and "denounce" "Ed's investors"... so it is "pretty much said what he wanted to say" - to cite himself.

Craig: not even twice!

If the iCP2 sucks - let's just make sure you buy all future products from ED and bypass Craig.

 

[notaz]

I know it's not productive, but as there is some venting going on here now I'll add a bit of my own. The latest Craig's posts fueled a lot of bad feelings in me too that I still can't get rid of, I'm too involved with pandora to just not care and some steam has to go.

I don't know who his 'investors' are, I don't know his business plan and have minimal contact with him.

Well you don't know because you didn't care and never asked, your goal was to get out of the sinking pandora ship ASAP and not even think about it. That is until ED cooks his first 1GHz board, and that's when we see you again. As it smells money..

It's Ed who has been in charge for well over a year... how can I provide units when I don't make them? I have absolutely no control of production and Ed does not update me on what is going on.

Yeah right, no control whatsoever. But suddenly you appear out of nowhere and post this (less than 10 months ago):
http://boards.openpandora.org/index.php?/topic/8510-1ghz-boards-fancy-one

This run of 150 is expensive, which is reflected in the price. These simply exist because there is a demand for them, even at this price. We know it's expensive and not for everyone - but they will help OP.

Oh how uninfomed and uninvolved you look in that thread! Just wow.
And sure this latest preorder thing of yours helped, but nobody knows what. We all know how that ended.

(in a response to ED)

yes you did some things we suggested, but all far too late. Christmas was the last real chance to promote the Pandora and you just did nothing.

Yeah sure, as you are incapable doing anything yourself ED must be the one to blame here as he must be sitting and doing nothing all day long, right? And yet when it comes to things like announcing 1GHz and directing people to your shop all your capabilities suddenly come back and ED is no longer needed..

Shame you never speak to any of us anymore

As if you ever did, over the whole years you absolutely *never* had interest or any talks about software matters, except skeezix in a few occasions.. If ED doesn't speak to you, it's because you don't show interest yourself, as it has been for years and years with certain aspects of this project..

And I told you over and over again when you were taking this over that the returns were coming in at an alarming rate, and yet here you posting that somehow that took you by surprise ...

This is a pure lie, no such posting exists.

There are a few hundred remaining outstanding orders at the last count.

it usually hovers around ~500

Oh man, make up your mind... Make up your miiiind..

 

[Mr_Loon]

From my perspective, after reading through this thread, the issue raised here i.e. that core team do not communicate enough, or possibly effectively enough, appears to be pretty accurate.

Hopefully Craig & ED can find some common goals to work towards, such as : everyone who paid for a Pandora should eventually either get a Pandora or their money refunded.

There is little to be gained pointing the finger at the lack of marketing / a website that is truly fit for purpose etc. You can't change the past, but with a bit of communication and goodwill the future for those awaiting units / refunds could be made a little brighter or at the very least a little clearer.

@ Darkborn : I can understand your anger but I'd repeat the stuff mentioned in the thread linked above : 'being a bad communicator / prone to offhand remarks does not make you a bad person. Also remember that the Pandora has so far been a financial disaster for Craig. He's not sitting on huge piles of cash'

Craig is not a 'bean counter' however to run a successful business you've got to be willing to count the beans, or at the very least have someone count them for you.

Sad to say but it does seem like ego has a part to play in the problems raised by this thread, suggesting that ED (and the investors) are not 'the saviour of the community' is just plain ridiculous. Where would we be if ED had not taken over production? The fact that ED (and the investors) saved the Pandora project does not in any way lessen the fact that there would have been no project to save if Craig had not put in a lot of time and money.

 

[Maquis196]

The best thing for people expecting refunds to do is to switch back to getting a pandora, then at least when you have the physical device you can sell it. It's what I did.

Facts remain, theres no end in sight for those expecting monetary refunds from craig, the reasons why have been discussed to death and without proof its all conjecture. What is a fact is that ED is sending out units to Craigs customers (again, regardless of why).

So, get a unit, sell it. Otherwise wait for a solution that might never come, we can all hope that icp2 actually works, becomes real and profits used to wind up OP ltd. However that's just theory and wishing.

my 2 pence.

On this note however, I'll soon have a 1ghz pandora to sell if anyone is interested (I'll post it for free within UK/EU as well)

 

[Exophase]

I didn't read any of darkborn's post (tl;dr), but to be fair, things can change a lot in four years. Things might have been more cushy back when the order was placed. Granted you still wouldn't have the money, but you would have a unit you could sell if things were really bad.

True, but if things are really that bad you should probably focus your energies on something better than raving like mad here. That isn't going to get you a refund any sooner. We've all made purchases years ago that we probably didn't need to (I'm sure Pandora wasn't the one and only thing for anyone), for the most part that money is gone forever.. Pandora shouldn't be that way but at some point you have to start thinking of it like that.

It really astounds me that some people can't distinguish between a person like Craig and an outright con-artist who takes your money with no intention of giving you what you paid for. Or whatever other crazy things people make up, about feeding a disease that compels him to compulsively lie and steal. It's all totally baseless and shows a serious lack of critical thinking, instead retreating into total fantasy..

What people should start understanding is that screaming and making up crazy accusations dilutes the impact of any valid points you make, and taking the mindset that anyone who isn't as extreme as you is wrong and being taken in just makes things worse..

 

[Christoph.Krn]

WHAT A LIAR. IF I GET TO NEWCASTLE, YOU'LL BE LEFT ABANDONED OF SOME CRUCIAL PARTS OF YOUR BODY!

darkborn, would you like to live in the medieval period?
I don't mean to defend Crag's behavior, but I think that this threat is not better -- In fact, I deem it as seriously not acceptable. And I assume (and hope) I'm not the only person in here.