Has *anybody* received a refund from OpenPandora Ltd (Craig's) in 2013?

[EvilDragon]

Okay, so this should mean that if someone ordered a Rebirth Pandora on Craig's store (from the stock of 2700 new sales) the entire customer purchase price (full margins) would be sent to you. Otherwise there would be no profit from which to manufacture the other 1300.This is a very different scenario from Craig buying 1GHz units at cost, and those units shouldn't have anything to do with the 4000 in the second batch (either the 2700 or the 1300).

Craig never sold any Rebirth. Those have only been sold by me.


He only sold 1GHz ones, and that should've been the very different scenario you mentioned above (though had been integrated into the other one later, as none of his customers would've received any units anymore otherwise).

 

[Exophase]

So before he sold the 1GHz units he had no means of selling units altogether? I guess it doesn't really matter who was selling from the 2700, if all of the profit went back to funding the 1300 and paying back the investors.

Okay, one other thing..

No one knows how many Pandoras Craig owes to people or how many refunds, but you know how many of the 1300 were allotted to him and how many of those have been sent out. Somehow there are surely going to be more outstanding Pandoras than those determined by the plan (according to Craig, due to people returning broken Pandoras). Despite this, you seem to still want to pay for them using profits from the 1GHz units, and pay for the 1GHz Pandoras Craig bought but never paid for. You're selling more 1GHz units than Rebirth units right now, and they make more profit than Rebirth units.. so I expect if you don't sell all the 2700 Rebirth units sales from 1GHz units will count towards that instead.. nonetheless, so long as you're using any profits beyond what the 2700 would have gotten to pay for more than those 1300 units you are paying for Craig out of your pocket. Just hope that part is clear, that idea goes beyond any agreements or contracts laid out.

 

[vcoleiro1]

Getting back to the thread topic, people who requested a refund have the foillowing choices

1)  Upgrade with ED and either keep or sell that unit.  - Probabaly lose $50 - $100 gauging from ebay sales , however, the benefit would be that you can get the Pandora and sell it now.

2)  Cancel their refund request and wait for there Pandora which will eventually be delivered under the current profit share agreement. They can then keep or sell that unit.  This will involve a wait. Based on ebay sales there will still be a small loss - probably slightly less than option 1 though.

3)  Hope that Craig starts communicating with ED again and takes him up on his offer (See post 141) of receiving cash some times rather than a Pandora, so that this could be used for refunds.  This will involve Craig actually contacting ED and giving this the green light. Somehow I doubt he will do that.

As for people who are still after their pre-order Pandora from Craig, the current profit sharing plan will continue to trickle Pandoras Craigs way until you get yours.  Your wait will be based on ED's sales rate.

 

[sepp256]

Getting back to the thread topic, people who requested a refund have the foillowing choices

1)  Upgrade with ED and either keep or sell that unit.  - Probabaly lose $50 - $100 gauging from ebay sales , however, the benefit would be that you can get the Pandora and sell it now.

2)  Cancel their refund request and wait for there Pandora which will eventually be delivered under the current profit share agreement. They can then keep or sell that unit.  This will involve a wait. Based on ebay sales there will still be a small loss - probably slightly less than option 1 though.

3)  Hope that Craig starts communicating with ED again and takes him up on his offer (See post 141) of receiving cash some times rather than a Pandora, so that this could be used for refunds.  This will involve Craig actually contacting ED and giving this the green light. Somehow I doubt he will do that.

As for people who are still after their pre-order Pandora from Craig, the current profit sharing plan will continue to trickle Pandoras Craigs way until you get yours.  Your wait will be based on ED's sales rate.

Well, no one knows how many pre-orders Craig has left because he hasn't shared the list with anyone. As ED hasn't promised an infinite # of units to Craig (only 800 units or equivalent cash for refunds), who knows if everyone will receive a unit or a refund.

The best solution is #1 (to upgrade and get  your unit now) if you want resolution. I also think it's better to enjoy your unit now (or re-sell it now) while there is so much software and uses for the system at present!

 

[Klumpen]

Pro upgrade!

 

[F_Slim]

3)  Hope that Craig starts communicating with ED again and takes him up on his offer (See post 141) of receiving cash some times rather than a Pandora, so that this could be used for refunds.  This will involve Craig actually contacting ED and giving this the green light. Somehow I doubt he will do that.

More importantly this will require Craig to give exact numbers of outstanding orders and refunds. If I were ED, I would not even start considering to agree on anything with Craig unless it is 100% known what you're looking at beforehand. After what happened I would also make absolutely sure that any future agreement involves a legal document signed by both, to ensure that there is no doubt from any side what the agreement was. And to ensure that no further liabilities whatsoever (e.g. claims after a possible bankruptcy of OP Ltd.) could be deduced from that agreement.

 

[grydholt]

So before he sold the 1GHz units he had no means of selling units altogether? I guess it doesn't really matter who was selling from the 2700, if all of the profit went back to funding the 1300 and paying back the investors.Okay, one other thing..No one knows how many Pandoras Craig owes to people or how many refunds, but you know how many of the 1300 were allotted to him and how many of those have been sent out. Somehow there are surely going to be more outstanding Pandoras than those determined by the plan (according to Craig, due to people returning broken Pandoras). Despite this, you seem to still want to pay for them using profits from the 1GHz units, and pay for the 1GHz Pandoras Craig bought but never paid for. You're selling more 1GHz units than Rebirth units right now, and they make more profit than Rebirth units.. so I expect if you don't sell all the 2700 Rebirth units sales from 1GHz units will count towards that instead.. nonetheless, so long as you're using any profits beyond what the 2700 would have gotten to pay for more than those 1300 units you are paying for Craig out of your pocket. Just hope that part is clear, that idea goes beyond any agreements or contracts laid out.

Exophase, thanks for trying to make sense of all this, much appreciated. It's been good to have these things condensed in a few posts. However I couldn't follow the last part of the monster sentence starting at "Despite this,". Can you please repeat the arguments since you point out that it is important that this part is clear.

Thanks

[Edit: It's actually the sentence after "Despite this," that I'm not following, it starts at "You're selling" - sorry about that ]

 

[Exophase]

Yeah I don't really get what I'm saying either I'm too tired to make very good sense and I was hesitant to even post that mess :/ I think what I was saying was:

1) ED is selling more 1GHz units than Rebirth units now

2) If not all of the 2700 Rebirth units are sold or sold quickly enough then I expect profits from 1GHz unit sales will pay for the "extra" 1300 units instead

3) If ED ends up paying for more than 1300 units then he's paying using profit that he's entitled to

It's kind of fuzzy to me on where the line, if any, should be drawn between "ED uses sales from the planned 2700 Rebirth units to fund the 1300" and "ED uses sales from newer, more expensive 1GHz units to fund the 1300." Since the 1GHz units make more profit then not quite 2700 Pandoras will have to be sold to pay for the 1300.

 

[davidgro]

I know it's not what most people waiting want to hear...and some it's not an option.. but probably the best option is to pay to upgrade..

and as (sorry I forget the username) is doing... if you want a refund... probably best to buy an upgrade... then resell it... you will loose some money but at least you'll get some of it back...

Just to refresh my memory, how much again is it to upgrade (and is there more than one option or is it just to 1GHz)?

(In USD$ if possible)

 

[konqithedragon]

You can get a (new/refurbished) Rebirth unit or a refurbished "classic" unit for less.

 

[sepp256]

Yeah I don't really get what I'm saying either I'm too tired to make very good sense and I was hesitant to even post that mess :/ I think what I was saying was:


1) ED is selling more 1GHz units than Rebirth units now


2) If not all of the 2700 Rebirth units are sold or sold quickly enough then I expect profits from 1GHz unit sales will pay for the "extra" 1300 units instead


3) If ED ends up paying for more than 1300 units then he's paying using profit that he's entitled to


It's kind of fuzzy to me on where the line, if any, should be drawn between "ED uses sales from the planned 2700 Rebirth units to fund the 1300" and "ED uses sales from newer, more expensive 1GHz units to fund the 1300." Since the 1GHz units make more profit then not quite 2700 Pandoras will have to be sold to pay for the 1300.

ED is putting profits from ALL sales (rebirth units, 1GHz units, Everdrives, etc...) from his shop into the pandora rebirth until the 1300 pre-orders are cleared.

 

[darkborn]

WHAT A LIAR. IF I GET TO NEWCASTLE, YOU'LL BE LEFT ABANDONED OF SOME CRUCIAL PARTS OF YOUR BODY!

darkborn, would you like to live in the medieval period?

I don't mean to defend Crag's behavior, but I think that this threat is not better -- In fact, I deem it as seriously not acceptable. And I assume (and hope) I'm not the only person in here.

Agree with you. Please, don't get me literally. I did not mean to hurt anybody. This is just (bad joke) expression because I cite/paraphrase Craig (and you did not):

I won't let it go if it means people will just be left abandoned with no Pandora.

This is Craig's explanation why he don't want to give ED exact numbers and list of pre-orders! From a guy who achived to get even more money for "rebirths", from people that are literally left abandoned with no Pandora.  And after that no answers to email for refunds (= back to topic). And NOW, he "cares" and not trust ED...

I don't care how much is he frustrated or disordered. I will repeat what I said somewhere before:

Craig is a bad person. And bad actor. I don't care for his troubles because he doesn't care when he _intentionally_ hurts other(s).

I just wanted to show how _mean_ and _not_ _acceptable_ this behaviour is.

Btw, I still did not seen here any "sorry folks" from Craig. For him, we're sheeps, he is shepherd.

 

[EvilDragon]

It's kind of fuzzy to me on where the line, if any, should be drawn between "ED uses sales from the planned 2700 Rebirth units to fund the 1300" and "ED uses sales from newer, more expensive 1GHz units to fund the 1300." Since the 1GHz units make more profit then not quite 2700 Pandoras will have to be sold to pay for the 1300.

Yes, if I make more profit, I can afford to send more units to Craigs old customers.

The main goal is: Get all the money back to be able to pay back to all investors.

Anything above that can be used for more preorder units, but I need to make that cut here.

 

[darkborn]

That crosses a very clear line - to personal physical threats.  It should probably be turned over to the proper authorities in the author's country of residence.

You're wellcome. Please, get some stuff to burn all witches around too.

Because, when somebody suck your blood for years and act as a good fellow, this is quite allright.

But if somebody paraphrase somebody else - to show how _not_ _acceptable_ original statement is - this should be taken as literally as could, obviously.

Dear, I wrote at post before, I did not mean nothing serious. There is subtle distinction between virtual and real life, you know.

So long, mr. Obvious. Get some witches, hang them high.

EDIT: Sorry, I did not see your other post, about *real* threats you experienced. At other parts of Earth is not common to have some James Holmes twice a month.

 

[neko]

No one knows how many Pandoras Craig owes to people or how many refunds, but you know how many of the 1300 were allotted to him and how many of those have been sent out. Somehow there are surely going to be more outstanding Pandoras than those determined by the plan (according to Craig, due to people returning broken Pandoras).

It seems likely that this will happen.  We'll reach the end of the 800 units, and Craig will still have outstanding orders.  How will this be dealt with?

 

[EvilDragon]

It seems likely that this will happen.  We'll reach the end of the 800 units, and Craig will still have outstanding orders.  How will this be dealt with? 

Not much I can tell you right now.

Donations might work, profits from other stuff I sell could help as well.

Also, if I ever create a successor, I could offer upgrades to the remaining customers to the new device as well.

But there's nothing fixed yet, we have no clue how many are left, how much profit I'll still make of the remaining orders nor how well they continue to sell.

I can also not tell you when or if there will be a successor... but I hope this all works out somehow and will truly do my best to help as good as I can.

 

[Timstertoo]

It seems likely that this will happen.  We'll reach the end of the 800 units, and Craig will still have outstanding orders.  How will this be dealt with? Not much I can tell you right now.Donations might work, profits from other stuff I sell could help as well.Also, if I ever create a successor, I could offer upgrades to the remaining customers to the new device as well.But there's nothing fixed yet, we have no clue how many are left, how much profit I'll still make of the remaining orders nor how well they continue to sell.I can also not tell you when or if there will be a successor... but I hope this all works out somehow and will truly do my best to help as good as I can.

However much this sucks for me personally as I'm most probably on the wrong side of the division between who'll receive and who won't I fully understand, respect and applaud your position here.

It's sound business sense you're showing here and you'll do well in the future. Especially with the help of the investors who'll happily join you on another adventure with the good mix of responsibility and drawing a line you show here.

So I take my hat of to you ED.

 

[Orion4874]

Speaking from experience, the best and most logical thing to do is upgrade if and when you can. I actually cancelled my preorder late last year, waited a couple months, cancelled my cancellation, waited a couple months and then upgraded via ED's store when I finally had the extra cash. Best decision I could have made IMO since it's all just a big question mark as to when/if we get our refunds/preorders. Plus, you're helping clear the que a little faster.

BTW, a big thank you goes out to ED for even making this option available to us. He didn't have to do that but it just shows how much of a good person he is and how much he cares for this community! I placed my order on the first and received it yesterday so don't worry about ordering from ED's store.

 

[rohezal]

It seems likely that this will happen.  We'll reach the end of the 800 units, and Craig will still have outstanding orders.  How will this be dealt with? 

Not much I can tell you right now.


Donations might work, profits from other stuff I sell could help as well.


Also, if I ever create a successor, I could offer upgrades to the remaining customers to the new device as well.

 

[vcoleiro1]

How many free Pandoras has Craig recieved under the current agreement? 

I'm asking because I would like to know how many he still has coming to fulfil pre-orders

ie 800 minus what he has recieved to date = remaining Pandoras he can receive under the agreement.