Has *anybody* received a refund from OpenPandora Ltd (Craig's) in 2013?

[vcoleiro1]

I got the distinct impression that Craig's refund queue isn't restricted to cancelled pre-orders. I also got the impression that there are also more pre-orders than ED had accounted for.

Any plan that involves making ED responsible for the debts of OP Ltd, rather than OP Ltd generating an income of its own is only going to end in trouble later.

I also haven't seen any indication that either ED or Craig would be willing to execute this plan so please stop saying "Lets make it happen"   There's nothing any of us (other than ED or Craig themselves) can do to make it happen, so it's rather pointless. 

As for whether anyone would buy from Craig again,   sure they would.   One thing he *is* good at is sales,  if he's motivated to do so. Look at the iCP2 kickstarter,   he had no trouble getting supporters for it.  He *could* still get back on track if he really wanted to,

- Neelix

I'm afraid you have not read the post where ED said he would be ok with sending  Craig refund cash in lew of using that money from purchases to build a Pandora to be sent to Craig.   Please read prior posts before commenting in future ie read post 141 in this thread

In regards to refunds, they can only happen via a canceled order, do you know of other  situations where this can occur?

I'm not saying ED is responsible for Craig's debt's , just that the current agreement should be adjusted to equally fulfill refunds for the pre-orders etc that have now shifted into refunds .

If it turns out that Craigs lists are bigger than what they should be at this point in time given the 800 starting point when the agreement was made. Then ED certainly has the right to refuse going any further with it. We won't know that until the lists are provided by Craig.

If you think anyone would purchase a Pandora from Craig again in any meaningful numbers , despite: what everyone has been saying after recent incidents and his comments that he doesn't want anything to do with P1 anymore.  Well then Sir, it's pointless arguing with you.

 

[ZXDunny]

If ED and Craig are ok with this plan ?,  lets make it happen and get Pandora back on it's feet. 

I think it's really cute that you think Craig will take any notice of you whatsoever. This must the fourth or fifth time you've suggested some plan or other to Craig and ED to get "Pandora back on its feet"

They're not listening, you know. Well, ED might be but without Craig nothing's going to happen - you might as well give up.

D.

 

[vcoleiro1]

If ED and Craig are ok with this plan ?,  lets make it happen and get Pandora back on it's feet. 

I think it's really cute that you think Craig will take any notice of you whatsoever. This must the fourth or fifth time you've suggested some plan or other to Craig and ED to get "Pandora back on its feet"


They're not listening, you know. Well, ED might be but without Craig nothing's going to happen - you might as well give up.


D.

I thought it was my first plan (not that its anything more than an adjustment to the current agreement) on this subject - in any event you are probably right about Craig not coming to the party. One can only try to help but  of course it's up to them , particularly Craig.  I just hope he does do something for the sake of those who requested a refund.  

 

[Wally]

Damn it'd be nice if Atari Lynx was built in 

 

[Timstertoo]

I think it makes much more business sense for ED to get maximum units out there first. Every unit that's being used is an ambassador that might generate more sales and thus create a snowball effect for the rest of the remaning orders.

Seeing as Craig won't give an exact number, which is a bad thing as why wouldn't you if it isn't something really bad, I don't think ED will be able/willing to finish all the remaining pre orders. I read earlier, I think it was Skeezix mentioning it, that there was a hard total of 800 units he'll send to Craig's customers. If so, I might have misunderstood, fully understandable (although I should cry bloody murder as I'm late batch 1 and in that scenario can probably forget about ED sending me one) as at a certain point you start giving away more to Craig then he ever put in so basically you're giving him a salary for screwing up whilst not keeping any profit for yourself because you want to do the right thing.

So until the pre order queue is cleared I think the whole refund discussion is rather pointless. Especially since I believe the 1GhZ special super duper get it first for way too much money because I need to pay my Leaf queue isn't even taken care of yet.

I seriously hope that some guys on ED's side, like the investors, are keeping track of the totals and see if it all adds up. I'd be suprised if they don't come to the conclusion that Craig is taken the piss and ED is paying his mortgage and plenty of pints in the local pub too.

It's not as if Craig's been busy doing stuff lately to help ED or even himself if I look at the drama that's starting to surround the ICP2 too. Plenty of time for a pint and a bit of wallowing in self pity. 

 

[ZXDunny]

Damn it'd be nice if Atari Lynx was built in 

What? Built into the Pandora? Or somehow incorporated into Craig's plans? Actually... Maybe things wouldn't be such a mess as they are now if Craig had just inserted an Atari Lynx... Where he inserted it, I'll leave to your imagination.

D.

 

[ekianjo]

If ED and Craig are ok with this plan ?,  lets make it happen and get Pandora back on it's feet. 

I think it's really cute that you think Craig will take any notice of you whatsoever. This must the fourth or fifth time you've suggested some plan or other to Craig and ED to get "Pandora back on its feet"


They're not listening, you know. Well, ED might be but without Craig nothing's going to happen - you might as well give up.


D.

I thought it was my first plan (not that its anything more than an adjustment to the current agreement) on this subject - in any event you are probably right about Craig not coming to the party. One can only try to help but  of course it's up to them , particularly Craig.  I just hope he does do something for the sake of those who requested a refund.  

Craig does not care. He does not even care about his current projects (ICP2 project management seems to be another good joke) so don't expect him to take care of his previous "promises". Remember when the ICP2 was said to be delivered to its customers?

For all we know he may have bought himself a nice car with the pre-orders money, and now he's pretending ED has to take care of his mess. WHat a great guy.

 

[PokeParadox]

Can we just wait and see what happens from here and not continue putting words into Craig's mouth. Everyone is pissed off with the "preorder situation" and it's easy to point fingers. But let's see what Craig and ED decide to do...

 

[Neelix]

What is the point of being good at sales when you cant deliver anything ? You end up looking like a snake oil merchant. except that in this case he does not even deliver the snake oil. Look at the ICP2 disaster. Craig is the one-man army who can destroy a whole community just by himself. 

 
Hence drop-shipping.  In such a situation He wouldn't be involved in the delivery phase to begin with.

I'm reserving judgement on iCP2... I wouldn't call it a disaster just yet though.

If you think anyone would purchase a Pandora from Craig again in any meaningful numbers , despite: what everyone has been saying after recent incidents and his comments that he doesn't want anything to do with P1 anymore.  Well then Sir, it's pointless arguing with you.

I don't expect anyone who knows the story to ever deal with him again. It is however a big world, with lots of people who don't know the story, who couldn't be bothered reading the forum history before making a purchase decision, so yes, I absolutely think he could make sales again if he made an effort at it.

I don't expect him to actually do this mind you. He had his chance to do so some time ago, but he's burnt many more bridges since then. I just happen to think it would still be his best option.

- Neelix

 

[ElPoco]

So if I understand correctly, according to the plan there should be 210 pandoras left in Craig's queue, but it's possible there actually are 600 of them?

 

[Timstertoo]

Can we just wait and see what happens from here and not continue putting words into Craig's mouth. Everyone is pissed off with the "preorder situation" and it's easy to point fingers. But let's see what Craig and ED decide to do...

Let's see what ED decides to do.

As far as Craig is concerned: Beggars can't be chosers.

 

[Exophase]

Craig does not care. He does not even care about his current projects (ICP2 project management seems to be another good joke) so don't expect him to take care of his previous "promises". Remember when the ICP2 was said to be delivered to its customers?

For all we know he may have bought himself a nice car with the pre-orders money, and now he's pretending ED has to take care of his mess. WHat a great guy.

More likely it's just taking longer than he thought it would because he's not great at estimating how long things will take. And because of the backlit keyboard. No reason to start speculating that he's poorly managing the KS money or will start blaming ED for anything.

 

[konqithedragon]

I gave this warning to Craig when the debate about wether to go ahead with the iCP2 as it was or do add back lighting:

"Beware the Ides of March"

 
I believe my warning was correct.

 

[sswam]

Well, this is the first thread I posted in, which I am no longer happy to follow.

All that needed to be said here was "No, there is no money"

 

[Klumpen]

So if I understand correctly, according to the plan there should be 210 pandoras left in Craig's queue, but it's possible there actually are 600 of them?

It seems, that C. just mentioned a number to Ed and Ed calculated his business plan according to these numbers.

If i understood this right, Ed has not got any proof for this number and since he delivered anyway,

"someone" might have noticed, that he could make up more numbers...

I would never take a business partner for his word for it alone.

 

[davidgro]

Well, this is the first thread I posted in, which I am no longer happy to follow.

All that needed to be said here was "No, there is no money"

Well, yeah, but on the other hand Craig and ED might actually be talking to each other. There's a very slight chance of a positive outcome for some of us, so I'm happy about that much.

 

[moxie]

I am not very happy about the continued more-or-less-veiled accusations that Craig is somehow embezzling money to other projects. If you have proof (and that is proof, as in receipts, witnesses, or something else that would stand up in court) then bring'em. If not, you're being libelous. And that goes whether you're naming names, or just using convenient ellipses like "someone" in the post above me.

"I feel a slight discomfort at the continued lack of refunds to my bank account" - OK

"Effin' CRAIG! I HATES HIM! Where is MY MONEY, you no-show no-good excuse-for-a-person??!?" - OK, well, it's your feelings, bud, although I'd recommend some therapy or something for your own sake. 

"Well, someone is using my money to buy a new car" - Not OK. Well, not unless you have proof.

So, keep it non-libelous, or eat some warning points. OK?

 

[mmKALLL]

Good stuff.

Maybe I should grab some popcorn as well.

Personally, I don't really have any qualms towards Craig - I ordered my unit from him, and I got it delivered within two weeks. I can understand why the potential loss of 200-400e would make someone upset, but I don't feel like judging him just because of a lack of completely loyal commitment. In my opinion, it would be inhumane to think otherwise - but hey, that's just my opinion. Of course, it would be better to know what you're getting into - but that also applies to those who invest large sums of money.

In a way, I totally agree with Neelix here. Also, I like the degree of clarity which Moxie shows in these posts about discussion. Additionally, I'm interested in the thread about optimization, with people arguing over the internet!

Just some status update. 

 

[Timstertoo]

I am not very happy about the continued more-or-less-veiled accusations that Craig is somehow embezzling money to other projects. If you have proof (and that is proof, as in receipts, witnesses, or something else that would stand up in court) then bring'em. If not, you're being libelous. And that goes whether you're naming names, or just using convenient ellipses like "someone" in the post above me.

"I feel a slight discomfort at the continued lack of refunds to my bank account" - OK

"Effin' CRAIG! I HATES HIM! Where is MY MONEY, you no-show no-good excuse-for-a-person??!?" - OK, well, it's your feelings, bud, although I'd recommend some therapy or something for your own sake. 

"Well, someone is using my money to buy a new car" - Not OK. Well, not unless you have proof.

So, keep it non-libelous, or eat some warning points. OK?

Are you referring to this part of my post? :

So until the pre order queue is cleared I think the whole refund discussion is rather pointless. Especially since I believe the 1GhZ special super duper get it first for way too much money because I need to pay my Leaf queue isn't even taken care of yet.

Because if you really think the money Craig got from these people has been used by him to order and pay the 1GhZ units from ED and he then promplty mailed them to those customers thus clearing that queue as soon as they could get produced I don't really know what to say to you besides that I look forward to my day in court and slap on those warning points.

No indeed, I'm pretty sure Craig has set that money aside and it's all a mistake ED is sending those units out without getting paid 

 

[moxie]

I am saying that "I'm pretty sure" is not good enough. I'm not particularly referring to you (others are more over the line) but I do not find that appropriate. And that is completely unrelated to what I believe or do not believe about Craig and money - It is a far more practical question. I'm not sure about the law in germany, by all means, but I do know that if the forum server would be standing in Sweden, then whoever is responsible for running the forum server is also responsible for the legality of the contents. Distributing libel is illegal. So, unless you have proof that would get ED out of court should someone decide to sue, I suggest you don't.