First generation games for OpenPandora?

[StreaK]

EDIT: Btw, you bring the GPH handheld incompatibility to the table, you know this was one major point of critique from the community about all GPH devices and still serves to split parts of the Caanoo and WIZ community, right? which is pretty stupid as both devices are nearly the same in hardware.

Yeah. It is stupid when you releasing new handheld [with no commercial games in mind] that is not compatible with each other. I mean incompatibility for reason to push indie-dev into OP2 envolvement. Of course OP2 will be open for community , but dev tools will be "hidden" for some time for porters, and "rewealed" for some time to indoe devs before launching OP2.. [this was the case when psx started in mid 90s].

 

[StreaK]

In this way, indie dev will be having "white card" to push some fresh commercial titles and not afraid of marked "doomed with all gpl-ready-compiled-apps-and-games"

They see me porting. They hatin.


No, really. Did you understand, what foxblock wanted to tell you? Aaaaall these "gpl-ready-compiled-apps-and-games" exist for PC, too. But nevertheless indie sells good. How do you explain THAT?

PC market couldnt be compared to handhelds [and especially with op handheld], even if theres the same system on it [linuxes]. Theres completely different tagrets [users]. It's just incompareable..

 

[Pickle]

since when as code sourcery toolchains been hidden? They are all based on gcc, so go theres no reason not to be able to build them from scratch.


Just want to also mention there are cases of full GPL apps being sold and also being released as free. Prime example being Frogatto, which is GPL, free for pandora, and sold for apple stuff.


Streak: It seems your arguing some attempt to attract commercial dev's to pandora. Its a nice idea, but frankly you can do whatever you want and its not to convience them. There have only been a few cases where a devopler has given the go ahead for a port, most other ports have happened because the source was made public.

 

[Ziz]

Why? Even a system like the pandora with a "normal" linux just with ARM processor is very good compareable.


If I can port free Software to the Pandora, Indie Devs can port their games to the pandora, too.

 

[StreaK]

@pickle


yeah, i know.. but its nice to chitchat about .. right?


@ziz


If you swich the ideas for OP2, you'll switch targets that will be involved in OP2 project with no harm to OP2 itself. the ideas of having PC are different form ideas of having OP.. so on.. so it is hard to compare targets for OP with targets for PC

 

[skeezix]

I'm just not sure.. are we being trolled here? Usually a troll is obvious, but I'm thinking StreaK is so masterful at it that its hard to tell


jeff


Back compatibility is a huge selling point imho. No, atytracting commercial (be they indie or not) devs is easy -- we've got the APIs and even harsdware; and shit hardware or not (many handhelds are garbage and sell well!) is entirely irrelevent. Hell, even very hard to code for platforms can sell, since customers don't care. Customers just want games, and devs just want customers. Tough problem, but if you sell units, both will come. Thats all. Thats it. All this talk about GPL or not.. its irrelevent. If you ship a pile of devices, theres a market right there. You ship few, no market cept for us hackers.

 

[StreaK]

What we have in here its like "orthodox linux syndrome" community, not really open for ideas. GPL & Linux uber alles. And this really kills real creativity in any way. Why not think about OP2 as a more commercial project than previous OP? I say , why not? Is it a community project ? Well , not

I'm just not sure.. are we being trolled here? Usually a troll is obvious, but I'm thinking StreaK is so masterful at it that its hard to tell


jeff

I just love drama in the evening..

 

[mcobit]

StreaK, you should merry craigix and your child would be a console...


No offense to any of you, I just think you share a lot of your ideals.

 

[StreaK]

Back compatibility is a huge selling point imho. No, atytracting commercial (be they indie or not) devs is easy -- we've got the APIs and even harsdware; and shit hardware or not (many handhelds are garbage and sell well!) is entirely irrelevent. Hell, even very hard to code for platforms can sell, since customers don't care. Customers just want games, and devs just want customers. Tough problem, but if you sell units, both will come. Thats all. Thats it. All this talk about GPL or not.. its irrelevent. If you ship a pile of devices, theres a market right there. You ship few, no market cept for us hackers.

Firstly create target users "on paper", create user "needs".. call indie devs and propose a deal with money "in the background".. sell the idea to "just created" users => everyone's happy.. every major corp doing this , so why not create this in here. blah.

StreaK, you should merry craigix and your child would be a console...


No offense to any of you, I just think you share a lot of your ideals.

I should marry craigix wife then [or girlfriend] to involve craigix


I bet craigix likes polish vodka's more than russian one, so it will be a lot easier to join the family

 

[craigix]

I like Vodka from Finland the best actually


But recommend me a Polish one and I'll try it!

 

[diligentcircle]

StreaK, you should merry craigix and your child would be a console...

Erm, "merry" is an adjective, not a verb.

 

[StreaK]

For example:


Sobieski Vodka

I'm just not sure.. are we being trolled here? Usually a troll is obvious, but I'm thinking StreaK is so masterful at it that its hard to tell


jeff

back to topic:


Getting good attention is a first part to success, right? [no matter what .. good or bad.]

 

[StreaK]

Back compatibility is a huge selling point imho. No, atytracting commercial (be they indie or not) devs is easy -- we've got the APIs and even harsdware; and shit hardware or not (many handhelds are garbage and sell well!) is entirely irrelevent. Hell, even very hard to code for platforms can sell, since customers don't care. Customers just want games, and devs just want customers. Tough problem, but if you sell units, both will come. Thats all. Thats it. All this talk about GPL or not.. its irrelevent. If you ship a pile of devices, theres a market right there. You ship few, no market cept for us hackers.

You cant get dev's even if you sell a lot of units, first example for it : well known case about atari jaguar in mid 90s. if you dont convince dev'ers about success of hardware. You couldn convince users to buy hardware without devers on board on your side..


So everything you'll need to do is convice initial devers firstly.. just to get ball rolling. And nobody convinced devers about hardware with GPL'ed code and open community


So.. fight for users with price , fight for dev'ers with "easy money earnings"

 

[Stephane Hockenhull]

You cant get dev's even if you sell a lot of units, first example for it : well known case about atari jaguar in mid 90s. if you dont convince dev'ers about success of hardware. You couldn convince users to buy hardware without devers on board on your side..

the Jaguar was a major pain in the ass to code for, that's why no developers wanted to work on it.


the machine's hardware was buggy and limited,


it had too many different CPUs,


the SDK was crap.


the work involved to develop a title for it wasn't worth it.


that's why.

 

[foxblock]

So everything you'll need to do is convice initial devers firstly.. just to get ball rolling. And nobody convinced devers about hardware with GPL'ed code and open community

Come again? This is THE ONLY REASON most devs are here.


But okay, this is getting silly, I feel like I am talking to a bread, gonna tune out. It was nice discussing with you while you made some sense...

 

[StreaK]

So everything you'll need to do is convice initial devers firstly.. just to get ball rolling. And nobody convinced devers about hardware with GPL'ed code and open community

Come again? This is THE ONLY REASON most devs are here.


But okay, this is getting silly, I feel like I am talking to a bread, gonna tune out. It was nice discussing with you while you made some sense...

indeed it is silly since im talking about commercial devs, and you about devs /porters.

 

[StreaK]

You cant get dev's even if you sell a lot of units, first example for it : well known case about atari jaguar in mid 90s. if you dont convince dev'ers about success of hardware. You couldn convince users to buy hardware without devers on board on your side..

the Jaguar was a major pain in the ass to code for, that's why no developers wanted to work on it.


the machine's hardware was buggy and limited,


it had too many different CPUs,


the SDK was crap.


the work involved to develop a title for it wasn't worth it.


that's why.

Dont forget it as an 16 bit era [ long before psx ] and these limitations was'nt that visible and hard to deal with. Nobody thinks about doing tekken on Jag. instead of that we have 2 mk ripoffs [because mk was "trendy" in that time] From perspective, yes jaguar is a bitch to code [thats what some people told me] but then, SDK's wasnt that popular and userfriendly [like psyq on sony psx.. ]. More machine code stuff , less c coding..


Anyway PS3 seems to be hard to get with as well, but coders needs to get used with it, and there was no real major rant about it. SONY get this ball rolling because dev knows wether yes or not, the games will sell on PS3, if they like it or not..


After all dev studios goes where money lays, not where is a place for easy coding..

 

[Ziz]

No, foxblock is talking about the community and you about money -_-'

 

[mcobit]

StreaK, you should merry craigix and your child would be a console...

Erm, "merry" is an adjective, not a verb.

I know, typo, sorry.

 

[Tempel]

You couldn convince users to buy hardware without devers on board on your side..

There's the flaw in your argument. We have every open-source dev on our side. Everything that's ever been open-sourced* can end up on a Pandora, from the Linux kernel to Doom 3. And that has brought users. The prospect of a full Linux desktop with all the software that I use at home is certainly what brought me. Trying to restrict its use with deliberate backwards-incompatibility and a custom SDK cuts off decades of hard work from this machine. Just so we can convince new people to do it again in a different way for money? That idea makes so little sense that I can only hope skeezix is right.


*a little exaggerated, yes.