"estimated" Release Date

Would you rather wait for a completely working pandora or not?

  • Yes! I need fully working wifi!

    Votes: 2 50.0%
  • No, the updates will do.

    Votes: 2 50.0%

  • Total voters
    4

Right you are WizardStan. One of the guys wrote somewhere that they have a self-testing image of the OS, which handles the "raw mode" of wifi also. It initializes and detects APs, IIRC.

As for GUI I bet they're going to use the NetworkManager software :).

So yeah, work on the wifi driver is still in progress, but there doesn't seem to be anything from with the hardware as of now.
 
I hope they get it released soon, I'm going to use mine to control my Fusion Power Generator ;)
 
WICD is a good choice as well http://wicd.sourceforge.net/
+1

Wicd is dead simple. Supports the I don't know where my next wifi hotspot is gonna be mentality. Supports global DNS override for those of you that like OpenDNS or don't trust sketchy DNS server on random coffeehouse wifi network.

The daemon itself doesn't have any specific window manager requirements, so it could be integrated into the Pmenu frontend if Cpasjuste would want to do it. Not necessarily easily, I dunno it might be.

The standard GUI is wxPython, which is totally WM independant. No worries about QT, Gnome, or other dependancies. Just WxWidgets and Wicd, so it should integrate nicely into Matchbox.

I don't know what the devs are planning on using by default, but if it isn't Wicd... I'll probably be doing a port of it myself pretty quick.
 
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If you had listen to both of EvilDragon's and Pickles points, together they make valid argument as to why it's not as simple as you guys may think. Craig is a pretty smart guy and if he could do what you guys are requesting he would do it already.

Once all the moving parts are in place, and once they hit the assembly line, give it a month (after the initial 400 has passed) they will be as readily available as any other piece of hardware, in accordance with the budget. The "retail quality" manufacturing process does take long to adapt to, especially after the first batch; not to mention that this is most likely walk in the park for the experienced manufacturer. So don't mess with Texas...
 
I could not care less about the Wireless so please for the love of God, once the hardware is good please send it out. Probably the first preorderers can live with some software issues. I sure do. :)
 
I'm not so hyped about wifi as well. I will not use it for online gaming or internet (I'm using my G1 for mobile internet). It is just a problem when you receive a device and you can't be sure everything is working as it should. How can you test it then? I don't like the idea of something shipped without all drivers and with beta-software. The latest part of the process before Pandora's launch might be the most crucial for its quality.

I am interested in the self-testing image of the OS Wojtek Kanalia is talking about. What will this be testing, what kind of failures will it find, if there are any?
 
wifi is a requirement for me. It was not listed as an option, it was listed as a feature. I understand that initial applications may be limited, but I expect all the hardware to be fully functional. I've made some bad buys on w-lan adapters with half-assed linux support and some never have been fixed. I am more concerned about an arm distro as I expect it will be supported by an infinitely smaller group of developers. My take was that TI was fully on board with this effort so I am surprised that basic functions are not working. Bottom line is that non-working wifi is a deal-breaker for me.
 
wifi is a requirement for me. It was not listed as an option, it was listed as a feature. I understand that initial applications may be limited, but I expect all the hardware to be fully functional. I've made some bad buys on w-lan adapters with half-assed linux support and some never have been fixed. I am more concerned about an arm distro as I expect it will be supported by an infinitely smaller group of developers. My take was that TI was fully on board with this effort so I am surprised that basic functions are not working. Bottom line is that non-working wifi is a deal-breaker for me.
So you would prefer to get a fully functioning device with WiFi in (pulling an estimation out of thin air) September, rather than a mostly functioning device in July which needs to be updated in September? Why? You would have to wait the same time period to get the WiFi anyway, why not enjoy what is working when you can?
Or have I missed your point?
 
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QUOTE ("b_o_b")
I am interested in the self-testing image of the OS Wojtek Kanalia is talking about. What will this be testing, what kind of failures will it find, if there are any?


By testing image I meant the one mentioned by EvilDragon a few pages before in this thread (and, you yourself b_o_b, commented on it already):

QUOTE ("EvilDragon")
There's a minimal testing image which tests all the hardware (also raw WiFi is working there, it initializes fine and discovers other networks), however, doing a fully working driver for the normal OS is not that easy


So there :)
 
I am interested in the self-testing image of the OS Wojtek Kanalia is talking about. What will this be testing, what kind of failures will it find, if there are any?
By testing image I meant the one mentioned by EvilDragon a few pages before in this thread (and, you yourself b_o_b, commented on it already):

QUOTE ("EvilDragon")
There's a minimal testing image which tests all the hardware (also raw WiFi is working there, it initializes fine and discovers other networks), however, doing a fully working driver for the normal OS is not that easy


So there :)


Aha.. thanks for reminding me. I thought you might know more about the image, but I guess that's something ED could tell us. He is talking about 'minimal'.. that doesn't sound very full featured does it ;)
What does "raw WiFi is working" tell us, besides WiFi goes on and off? What should the driver do, what the image isn't?
 
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I am interested in the self-testing image of the OS Wojtek Kanalia is talking about. What will this be testing, what kind of failures will it find, if there are any?
By testing image I meant the one mentioned by EvilDragon a few pages before in this thread (and, you yourself b_o_b, commented on it already):

QUOTE ("EvilDragon")
There's a minimal testing image which tests all the hardware (also raw WiFi is working there, it initializes fine and discovers other networks"], however, doing a fully working driver for the normal OS is not that easy[/quote]So there :)


Aha.. thanks for reminding me. I thought you might know more about the image, but I guess that's something ED could tell us. He is talking about 'minimal'.. that doesn't sound very full featured does it ;)
What does "raw WiFi is working" tell us, besides WiFi goes on and off? What should the driver do, what the image isn't?


Minimal means there is no GUI or usable OS, it simply boots and test the hardware :)
 
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Just to add to ED statement there are a couple 'images' we can use on pandora at the moment.
Notaz builds an image which is a bare bone kernel/binaries image (the one for hw testing)

Then theres the images DJWillis puts together based on the angstrom source. This is split into a core image and a full image. The core would be a console only image where the full will have your X windows.
 
wifi is a requirement for me. It was not listed as an option, it was listed as a feature. I understand that initial applications may be limited, but I expect all the hardware to be fully functional. I've made some bad buys on w-lan adapters with half-assed linux support and some never have been fixed. I am more concerned about an arm distro as I expect it will be supported by an infinitely smaller group of developers. My take was that TI was fully on board with this effort so I am surprised that basic functions are not working. Bottom line is that non-working wifi is a deal-breaker for me.
So you would prefer to get a fully functioning device with WiFi in (pulling an estimation out of thin air"] September, rather than a mostly functioning device in July which needs to be updated in September? Why? You would have to wait the same time period to get the WiFi anyway, why not enjoy what is working when you can?
Or have I missed your point?[/quote]I think he might be trying to say that the OpenPandora crew will be able to fix the WiFi issues in a more timely manner if they wait until the issues are fixed before shipping. I think he's concerned that if they just ship the units out without WiFi fixed, then they may get lazy (?) about fixing the WiFi (or may not have the same work ethic?) and there's a possibility that it may never get up to 100%.
 
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I don't like the idea of something shipped without all drivers and with beta-software. The latest part of the process before Pandora's launch might be the most crucial for its quality.
The whole point of first batch was to put the hardware out with beta quality software so that the community could start hacking and improving it. Now because of the delays we're getting a much better software than we thought, with just one single missing (core) feature.

I wouln't worry that OP could stop developement as soon as 1st batch is out and leave us without working wifi: they still have the later batches to sell, and those will expect fully working software.
 
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I'm trying hard here to limit the negative vibe of my posts, becaue they could easily sound a lot less positive than I would like just by including facts/thoughts, but here goes... happy thoughts...

I believe much of the problem from a users perspective here stems from the fact that OpenPandora have been optimistic in the past, and had that optimism dashed. The bank crisis wasn't going to affect the Pandora project, the LCDs were ordered so wouldn't be a delay, the case redesign(/s?) would not cause a delay (some onths ago, it feels) and so on and so forth.

At each step the optimisms (like board design #2 would be final - then #3 would be final, then...) have proven just a touch TOO optimistic. My point being that prediction is a whole specialist area in and of itself, and thus far OpenPandora, whilst highly skilled in other areas, do not seem to have a natural talent for prediction. Things tend, it seems, to go wrong for them. The Wizzley game development project - which will not detract from Pandora development - has taken somewhat longer than its original 30 day promise, as just another from the catalogue of woes that affect these chaps.

That's the background against which we are now told that the WiFi problem - however it manifests, we are told they are having a problem with WiFi - won't affect the Pandora long-term. It is software based, they are sure, and can/will be fixed after shipping.

It's easy to be gloomy and wonder why this prediction should be more accurate than all the failed predictions which have come to pass. I am, myself, not entirely sure who is going to be providing the "fix" to this particular problem. After all, the second batch is supposed to happen about 2 months after the first batch. If all drivers were supposed to be ready for the second batch, then the WiFi driver situation is already 4 months late, and counting... Who are we waiting on for this? If Craig should be writing the fix then there seems to be room to wonder if side projects like Wizzley Presto and Pandora Box have cut into his Pandora software dev time. If TI or Nokia or (and so on) are the ones we're waiting on for "the fix" then what guarantee do we have that they will EVER produce the fix that OpenPandora (and we) need? Bearing in mind that others have mentioned that various other products released without WiFi working still do not have WiFi working, and it looks like they never will.

Prediction is problematic. Diagnostic procedures can narrow down the likely problem but, IMHO, until you've fixed it you don't KNOW how you'll fix it or when...or possibly even "if". You can have estimates, predictions, guesses even - but you don't KNOW. With the pattern of delays to date, what is the compelling reason to believe that the problems will be fixed shortly after release when they have not been fixed in the 6 months since the product was supposed to be released?

There's a LOT more upbeat stuff to consider - personally I'm seriously anticipating playing some fo the game sPickle has been porting... looking forward to that a great deal!
 
Agree we are first batchers - know how to run a firmware/software update so get it released - July would be great (even if it was 31 July 2009)

WIFI or any other non hardware issues can wait.

Second batch should go out perfect (or as near as possible) giving the team focus to sort out the non hardware issues.
 
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