Craigs Preorder List Update

[Hồng Thất Công]

As someone who has no choice but to wait for a Rebirth unit due to no spare money... I hope you don't give up on us, ED. Maybe donors can help bridge the gap in costs. I hope to produce games for the Pandora... but without one, I can't build for it. :/

Umm... I know I'll be corrected if wrong, so I'll do the Reality Check:

Reading this thread it is becoming quite obvious that apart from a generous one time donation in the 50000 to 100000 eur range (of some Mad As a Hatter Filthy Rich Person) there is simply no way anyone, not even ED can fix this situation completely. Not without sacrificing their own business with 99.9% certainty.

So, unless someone knows a MAHFRP anyone wishing to stick to rebirth is out of luck.

Some more money will need to be paid to get a Pandora, the question now is how much and what you get for it. And I guess that's one of the questions that is thinning ED's hair at the moment (though judging from the Youtube videos he's got an envy invoking amount to start with ;-). When the survey was done I though there'd be a single price for all... not this messy "who can pay how much"-thing. It was supposed to be a survey, not an order form, right?

But like I said before: There are people in the "Rebirth please"-queue who can pay quite a bit, and people who for one reason or another absolutely will not.

I'm sure that there are, for example, people who already found a replacement and would not pay a penny, some would probably dump the Pandora to ebay the moment it arrives (which, by the way, can present a real problem since there are so many preorders)!

Having spread all this negativity I can only say: I feel your pain :-(.

For me it's more about "balance" really. It's not like our family has "spare change". There is no such thing: due to mortgage all we get always goes. But by putting a little aside every month it is possible to buy gadgets. If the gadget is for me the value for money has to be pretty great, because I got 3 children who also lust after the Nintedogs and iPads...

I already explained my motive for getting the Pandora and since March 2009 a lot has happened. The figure Schlee Dragon suggested, nearly 300 (without VAT, was it?) is more than I paid originally. Yes, I know that is the production price. No that does not make me feel any better. I would definitely Google ebay and see if anything else "workable" is available used before paying that much... I probably would not find anything, but I sure would spend hours looking!

For perspective: The most expensive computer our household has has cost us 700 euros, including tax.

Expressed another way: I wouldn't start discussing about respending 300 on a palmtop gadget with my wife... Until after sex. It's not like I'm stupid. OK, I'm stupid, I ordered the Pandora, but you know, after >10 years of marriage you kind of learn to anticipate some problems in advance ;-).

It works everytime .... for me 

 

[Esn]

Well my last post was deleted by someone.  Apparently they don't like it when you call out exactly what has happened.

 Which post?

As an admin, I can see any post that has been deleted in a thread, but I can't see any here.

What are you missing?

Maybe we're witnessing Craig's secret admin powers in action?
I do seem to recall something or other regarding that (Craig somehow being an admin on these forums without being visible as such).

 

[EvilDragon]

Maybe we're witnessing Craig's secret admin powers in action?

I do seem to recall something or other regarding that (Craig somehow being an admin on these forums without being visible as such).

Nope, I removed any single admin right from him a while ago.

 

[RuneIV]

Regarding the price and the technology. Though the hardware is dated, I think the device is far from obsolete. It is still one of a kind and still accomplishes what it was designed for perfectly from what I saw. It emulates all the "retro" console (maybe missing the Saturn) and provides a fully functional Linux desktop. Would it really needs/benefits from having something like the Tegra 4? Apart from emulating more recent non-retro consoles, it's not like you're going to want to run Blender on a 4.3" screen. So technically, the current Pandora still has the specs to accomplish its mission.

But... this clashes with the price a bit. Yes, as I've said, it is a one of a kind but everybody wants to have more for their money. At half price, you get the previously mentioned Tegra 4 in the NVidia Shield. Not the same device, not the same exact purpose but you get one hell of an emulating machine for half the price. And from around a quarter to a fifth of the price you can get a GCW-Zero. It also has an open Linux environment (though with a lot less polish), no keyboard but given time could emulate a bunch of retro consoles for a very affordable price.

This all leads to what your specific needs are. Do you want an open, ultra-portable computer with gaming control and a touch screen? Well then you're only option is the Pandora and it should be worth every cent. Do you want a portable system that lets you emulate as many consoles as possible so you have all your games in one place? Save 300$ and get the Shield. Do you want to play those older consoles on the go while messing around with a Linux on MIPS hardware but with no keyboard (not even onscreen)? Well then I'll guess you'll be pretty happy with a GCW-0.

So the question is, what do the possible remaining clients wants? If what they want is gaming and emulation well then 600$ is definitely too expensive as there is now a more powerful half-price option as well as a really cheap open device.

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

Pandora is a collector item.  I will pass it down to my kids and my kids will pass it down to their kids and their kids will put my Pandora on Ebay 100 years from now for $100,000,000 

Really, people pay ridiculous money for the AES NeoGeo.  What does it do?  Just play Neo Geo games and that's it.  So Pandora is NOT, and I repeat, NOT expensive.  If people don't want to spend money go somewhere else and stop complaining.

Sorry, ekianjo has infected me 

 

[narls]

EvilDragon,

When I filled out the survey I initially chose the cheapest upgrade option for 1Ghz.

About a week later I replied to the survey again and selected two options, "cc unit"   or wait for "rebirth unit"  - my financial situation has changed and I can't afford to pay any more.

I just want to make sure that there is only one entry for my order number and that I haven't artificially skewed the total units needed by replying to the survey twice.

 

[Mr_Loon]

Well my last post was deleted by someone.  Apparently they don't like it when you call out exactly what has happened.

Do you mean this one?

 

[RuneIV]

Pandora is a collector item.  I will pass it down to my kids and my kids will pass it down to their kids and their kids will put my Pandora on Ebay 100 years from now for $100,000,000 

Yeah and in their time $100,000,000 should be approximately worth 600 of our dollars 

 

[MrConfusion]

Do you want a portable system that lets you emulate as many consoles as possible so you have all your games in one place? Save 300$ and get the Shield. Do you want to play those older consoles on the go while messing around with a Linux on MIPS hardware but with no keyboard (not even onscreen)? Well then I'll guess you'll be pretty happy with a GCW-0.

So the question is, what do the possible remaining clients wants? If what they want is gaming and emulation well then 600$ is definitely too expensive as there is now a more powerful half-price option as well as a really cheap open device.

Gaming and emulation of consoles, yeah, but I for one am not and never was interested in consoles. C64, Amiga, PC. That's my list of emulations, because that's what I have on my shelves.

And quite a few of the games I own (YES, original manuals, boxes and all - 100-200 of them) are games in which you need a keyboard. You could still do old Sierra games or some RPGs with an onscreen keyboard. But try something like Elite on the Amiga (superb, if not best version IMHO) without a physical keyboard and it's simply not playable. I had a work related Nokia 770 at my disposal once, I tried, it sucked.

Anyway, ED has been awfully quiet now about what is going to happen. I guess it's a bit difficult situation, because he already wrote that the 200 and 150 queues would be served and then after already writing that finally got the full list that showed serving them will come with a pretty devastating cost... If those units are delivered, there definitely is not going to be enough money left to serve everyone.

But still, please ED, conclude this saga one way or another. We're all tired of waiting. Not waiting for the Pandora itself, because those who still want one probably want one forever. But waiting for The Official Conclusion to this whole fiasco.

 

[MrConfusion]

It works everytime .... for me 

What do you...? Oh... right... I'm flattered by your interpretation, sir, but unfortunately I need to correct you.

My point was: since it's going to be Midwinter at bedtime for some days after the discussion, you need to time the discussion right... h34r:

Cruel? Selfish? Goodness sir, I did say >10 years now didn't I. By that time there's bound to be a little Al Bundy living inside every one of us :rolleyes: .

 

[b_o_b]

Anyway, ED has been awfully quiet now about what is going to happen. I guess it's a bit difficult situation, because he already wrote that the 200 and 150 queues would be served and then after already writing that finally got the full list that showed serving them will come with a pretty devastating cost... If those units are delivered, there definitely is not going to be enough money left to serve everyone.

But still, please ED, conclude this saga one way or another. We're all tired of waiting. Not waiting for the Pandora itself, because those who still want one probably want one forever. But waiting for The Official Conclusion to this whole fiasco.

I think he already explained the situation. See this post 

Basically, we'd need everyone to pay at least production costs to continue in a proper way...


This is a pretty hard thing to decide.

 

I agree with this idea. Give everyone the opportunity to buy a Pandora for production cost. Seems like a very good deal to me. He doesn't have to do anything for Craigs customers, so this is already more than fair.  

Customers that don't agree should try to get their money / Pandora from Craig. 

 

[hitbyambulance]

at this point (as a 2009 pre-orderer), i'm willing to just pay production costs for a 1GHz unit and be done with it.

however... the fact that this would mean i lost near $400 (unit + TV cable + currency conversion + shipping) just like that - it is not an easy issue to forget.

 

[HelenF]

I get the impression the rate of donations has increased. Though maybe it's just catch-up from people waiting for the target to be reset before donating.

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

CRAAAAIGGGGGG!!!!! Why are you doing this to ED!!!!! ED does NOOOOTTTTT owe you AAAAANYYYYTTHING!  Come one and deal with your customers CRAAAAIGGGGG!!!! and leave ED alone

 

[dooble]

Let's figure this out..   There are 500 people who paid for a Pandora and have lost that money.. but the original preoders were $330ish (247euro)... and that money is GONE. *POOF*  

I can only think that the reason to post like this is to inflame the pre-orders.  I know it does that for me.  

Ed/Craig, I think the survey was done badly.  It should have been made clear if there were options that were not going to be supported, and which ones they were.  People may have picked other options including myself.

People on this forum should remember that the pre-orders were part of what got this project moving.  I would bet it covered some IP, NRE charges, and other design work.  

I had tried PMs to both Ed and Craig.  The one to Craig sat for months unread before I deleted it (unread).  The one to Ed which was sent after the survey sat for a few weeks before I deleted it (unread).

The last part of the PMs basically stated that I wanted to forgive the obligation for the pre-order and consider it as a donation... at least I will think of it as a donation.

This was not part of the PM... last Christmas time I found a much more important electronic device, a PM (pacemaker).  The electrical signals were not being transmitted from the top of the heart to the bottom 2 chambers.  I need to save my extra funds to replace it when the battery dies about every 8 years.  

Good luck with the project and with Pandora.

Making this a donation in my mind should help cool the flames I fell from some posters.

doob

 

[RuneIV]

Gaming and emulation of consoles, yeah, but I for one am not and never was interested in consoles. C64, Amiga, PC. That's my list of emulations, because that's what I have on my shelves.

And quite a few of the games I own (YES, original manuals, boxes and all - 100-200 of them) are games in which you need a keyboard. You could still do old Sierra games or some RPGs with an onscreen keyboard. But try something like Elite on the Amiga (superb, if not best version IMHO) without a physical keyboard and it's simply not playable. I had a work related Nokia 770 at my disposal once, I tried, it sucked.

Good point.

 

[rohezal]

Good luck with the project and with Pandora.

Good luck with your health. And thank you. Maybe when the donation keeps going in, you are one of the people who will get one.

 

[EvilDragon]

Ed/Craig, I think the survey was done badly.  It should have been made clear if there were options that were not going to be supported, and which ones they were.  People may have picked other options including myself.

My suggestion were only the upgrade options.


The Classic Pandora and Refund-Option was Craigs idea.


And I wanted to accept and support the options I explained above.

People on this forum should remember that the pre-orders were part of what got this project moving.  I would bet it covered some IP, NRE charges, and other design work.

The sad thing is, I have no idea what money went where, that has all been handled by Craig.


No IP had been registered, so nothing has gone there.


The design costs had only been paid to MWeston, not to DaveC (as I paid him later), so not a huge amount of money should've been used up here.


I can't tell you where it went, though. 

I had tried PMs to both Ed and Craig.  The one to Craig sat for months unread before I deleted it (unread).  The one to Ed which was sent after the survey sat for a few weeks before I deleted it (unread).

Sadly, Craig doesn't really seem to respond to PMs.


I usually do, but it can take weeks - and IPB is not really suited for getting a lot of PMs. You easily lose sight which one you replied to and which one still needs a reply, etc.


You can't easily mark them as "handled" while reading them, so I might've overseen it.


Sorry about that.

The last part of the PMs basically stated that I wanted to forgive the obligation for the pre-order and consider it as a donation... at least I will think of it as a donation.

Thanks a lot! 

This was not part of the PM... last Christmas time I found a much more important electronic device, a PM (pacemaker).  The electrical signals were not being transmitted from the top of the heart to the bottom 2 chambers.  I need to save my extra funds to replace it when the battery dies about every 8 years.

Sorry to hear that


All the best wishes to you.

 

[elwing]

I'm disgusted by the number of people who received a preorder for quite sometime and tells that ED should just let us down, losing our money... we paid exactly the same as them and only hours appart in some case...

a fairer solution would be to ask them to send their pandora back to other preorders, that would be fairer... they got them for long enough...

 

[rohezal]

People on this forum should remember that the pre-orders were part of what got this project moving.  I would bet it covered some IP, NRE charges, and other design work.

No IP had been registered, so nothing has gone there.

Does he mean IP addresses or IP (Interlectual Property, like using a patented jpeg decoder in the chip design)?