Commercial Games/mainstream?

[Balzac2m]

engadget will do a new post when we see the first prototype and at release. No problem there. But I agree with you on /.
Leave that to the officials, please.

 

[MWeston]

Yes, I agree on keeping the press releases to a minimum. It just bogs the forum down and gives a few people reason to bash everyone and everything about Pandora while the pictures are just renders. Let's wait until the prototype is ready for its photo shoot debut.



...and that will be in the new year some time. I'm not giving any dates because we know how that seems to work out. I'd like to preview the hardware with some simultaneous Youtube videos so that means some interesting software will need to be ready as well.

 

[Tobriand]

As an addition to the commercial development question, I do wonder how mainishstream development houses will feel about making games for a machine where, whilst they'll be able to copy-protect their own games, they are competing for attention with ~20-30000 retro-games from the last 25 years.

Somehow I suspect the fact that you can easily run any PSX game and probably most N64 games on the handheld and have them look stellar (as they indubitably will on a small screen) may put some off, especially since a large number of us will almost certainly acquire the games to play from... unofficial sources.

However, don't forget that the OMAP3430 is mainly designed for used in next-gen mobiles, if you're to believe the Ti site.

Which means anything they make for us will probably run on whatever Motorola's flagship is in a year or two, thus giving whoever makes us commercial games a very good foot in the door for more mainstream products. This might be a good way to advertise it to commercial dev houses.

 

[pupnik]

It doesn't quite work as a gameplaying device, as plenty of posts testify,

It is the most promising, best thought-out, most usable, most flexible, most open, most powerful portable gaming device ever conceived. Citing some people's complaints about particular design decisions is not an argument that the best thing ever "doesn't quite work".

... Iif you're only getting 1 in 5 of those hardcore peeps who have been eagerly waiting for the Craiginator, giving the design the thumbs up, to my mind that equates to only a very small proprotion of joe public liking the design.

On the design poll, the votes in favor are over 2:1 vs those against (top two choices vs bottom two and 'meh' as neutral).

 

[Mr B]

On the design poll, the votes in favor are over 2:1 vs those against (top two choices vs bottom two and 'meh' as neutral).
Guess thats what we get from statistics. You see, "its ok" to me means "ok, i can live with it" and thats indifferent. That is potential users who wouldn't mind a different layout, for a more capturing experience. They alone are 37%.
The lower 3, are ranging from "meh" as in "not good, but not really a major issue, i rather get 2 more shoulder buttons then fight over the keyboard" And the dislike equals to "not really what i want." and the i hate it once, "i ain't getting this, and the only reason is the design"

That means we have just over 20% "yey, love it, 50% who pretty much haven't made up there mind and 25% who know they don't like it. Statistics are wonderfull, you can prove anything with it. And yeah, i know it doesn't add up to 100%, and i cut all the numbers slightly short, just to save on math.

Another great example is the thread asking if the darn thing needs a keyboard or not. Pretty much everyone said "yes" and offcourse it does. However, it doesn't take any notice of what sort of keyboard it would need. A onscreen keyboard is a keyboard, so is a T9 dictionary, and a 12 button pad.
As a side note, i actually think a T9 alternative would be better then the current keyboard, but I'm a extremist, and know it. I don't however argue for that. Wait until i start throwing explosive phones around, screaming "T9 dictionary's to the people".
The world record T9 typing is just shy of 40 words a min, (26 words, in 43.66sec, the text: The razor-toothed piranhas of the genera Serrasalmus and Pygocentrus are the most ferocious freshwater fish in the world. In reality they seldom attack a human.)And again, i clarify, i don't suggest that a T9 dictionary system was used here, it would more then fill my needs, but there are more then my needs to consider. As opposed to a few others, i actually don't use my own sole use for the device as a guide for the equipment it should have. No one mentioned, no one forgotten.
B!

 

[Tobriand]

It kinda makes sense to lump the Ok and Love people together, because whilst Pandora is pretty, she's an unconventionally beautiful woman, and you really do have to get to know her personality before jumping into a relationship with her. Peronally, I'm quite happy to be one of her many friends rather than taking that dive.

But I'm looking forward to being one of her friends. And as an "ok" voter, I assume other such voters have similar views. It does make sense that the top two options are both broadly positive from such a point of view - unless, of course, you were an ok voter too, but somehow I doubt that.

Incidentally, on another issue, don't know if you can be bothered to go back through the thread, but I suspect any indications of sliding keyboards or tablet designs were actually speculation based on an assumption. Namely, that it was the obvious way of managing a keyboard. This is prior to any announcements about patents being an issue - which, again if you read the thread, you'll find subtly hinted at by both Craigix and MWeston, though I don't believe directly stated until after design info was released. And not everyone will have noticed that, or believed it, simply because, as a tablet was the assumed design (by general support at the time), a sliding keyboard made so much sense.

Unless you can find a quote from ED, MWeston, Craigix, or, possibly, Squidge saying otherwise, of course.


Oh, and idd, an onscreen keyboard is NOT a keyboard. By that logic, the GP2x, GP32, and I presume, NDS all have keyboards, when, obviously, they don't! Well, except for the GP32 chatboard, but that wasn't exactly stellar. In addition, a T9 entry system is not a keyboard either - at best it is a key-pad. The average mobile does not have a keybaord, which, by your logic, they would. Keys, yes. Keyboard, no.

 

[Mr B]

It kinda makes sense to lump the Ok and Love people together, because whilst Pandora is pretty, she's an unconventionally beautiful woman, and you really do have to get to know her personality before jumping into a relationship with her. Peronally, I'm quite happy to be one of her many friends rather than taking that dive.
I wont argue with your opinion, it just goes to show that statistics do prove anything... If we wanna keep going with parallels of females, the idea of beauty changed a lot since she was supposedly around. And, add to that, that males are rather known to end up in bed with females they would rather cut there arm of and sneak out of bed rather then waking her up the morning after... Guess that means we got what? 90% that would follow this Pandora of ours home, 5% that would screw her in the park, and leave her there just to humiliate her, and the last 5% the more honest of the once that hate her, would simply try to ignore her.

Unless you can find a quote from ED, MWeston, Craigix, or, possibly, Squidge saying otherwise, of course.
I might actually go back, if i find i have spare time for it, but more importantly, if they already had entirely different design spec'ed, the first none clamshells, and first mentions of a sliding keyboard should be meet with a "not happening, we have this instead" and this wasn't done, apparently to see if any other radical design ideas would spawn... Not that they would do it anyway, but the true reason is more likely letting people wish and hope builds hype. Then it sudently makes sence to go with decisions already ruled out by design.

Oh, and idd, an onscreen keyboard is NOT a keyboard. By that logic, the GP2x, GP32, and I presume, NDS all have keyboards, when, obviously, they don't! Well, except for the GP32 chatboard, but that wasn't exactly stellar. In addition, a T9 entry system is not a keyboard either - at best it is a key-pad. The average mobile does not have a keybaord, which, by your logic, they would. Keys, yes. Keyboard, no.
I don't know what the GP's have, or don't have. Last time i checked, a keyboard was described as a physical input device for mainly text and numbers. With that description, both a T9, and a onscreen keyboard, are keyboards. The T9 is a crude one at best but what isn't compared to this then? Yeah, i know, that wouldn't fit on the Panda, no mater what, and i suggest that idea is dropped at once.

So, who gets to decide what size is a keyboard?
B!

 

[Tobriand]

I don't know what the GP's have, or don't have. Last time i checked, a keyboard was described as a physical input device for mainly text and numbers. With that description, both a T9, and a onscreen keyboard, are keyboards. The T9 is a crude one at best but what isn't compared to this then? Yeah, i know, that wouldn't fit on the Panda,



Well, put it like this: if I were to buy a mobile, told it had a keyboard, and then discover they meant T9 input on a numpad, I'd be pretty pissed off, and, rightly I think, feel cheated.

Worse still, that definition would catch the little square on old palm-pilots for entering text via their specialist letter recognition. And whatever else is a keyboard, that just isn't - for one there are no keys!

QUOTE
no mater what, and i suggest that idea is dropped at once.


You're right there. Last post on the subject since it's very OT anyway!

 

[dodgyville]

Yes, I agree on keeping the press releases to a minimum. It just bogs the forum down and gives a few people reason to bash everyone and everything about Pandora while the pictures are just renders. Let's wait until the prototype is ready for its photo shoot debut.

...and that will be in the new year some time. I'm not giving any dates because we know how that seems to work out. I'd like to preview the hardware with some simultaneous Youtube videos so that means some interesting software will need to be ready as well.



There's no such thing as too much publicity. The gp2x had zeitgeist in the linux community before it was released. Pandora needs the same.

A /. story on how "plucky users of the gp2x, tired of botched job by big corporation, have banded together to create own unit" would be great publicity, and does not preclude another story when it's released. Face it, every update to ubuntu, the kernel, the PSP, the wii,the iPhone, etc is pre-announced on /., and then re-announced when it happens.

 

[Mr B]

Well, put it like this: if I were to buy a mobile, told it had a keyboard, and then discover they meant T9 input on a numpad, I'd be pretty pissed off, and, rightly I think, feel cheated.
If i bought a Panda, and got a T9 keyboard, and the gaming controls placed so i could game hour after hour, I'd be more then pleased. It's not complete removal, but close enough. However, i somehow doubt that will happen. I still think the best way would be a onscreen keyboard, and a button to bring it up.

Worse still, that definition would catch the little square on old palm-pilots for entering text via their specialist letter recognition. And whatever else is a keyboard, that just isn't - for one there are no keys!
No, thats letter recognition. Key's you select by pressing, or touching. not writing, whitch is what the palms your referring to use.

You're right there. Last post on the subject since it's very OT anyway!
Right.. The fact that the link was to a keyboard of a huge size was apparently wasted, since you never looked at the link. The addition of THAT keyboard was the one i thought better be dropped. But it was still a valid reference, since, who gets to decide what is a proper keyboard?
B!

 

[kfuse]

heh the title of subject is commercial games/ mainstream and we're still complaining about the keyboard...man people get a grip...

 

[OrR]

Mark:

I'm sure Craig and co are well aware of your points but they're not competing with Sony and Nintendo and Pandora is an entirely different beast to the Zodiac.

The Wii/ DS and XBOX360 are nothing other than games consoles. Pandora is a powerful PDA (or micro-laptop, whatever) AND gaming device (well, emulation device at least) and it is unfair to try to compare the Zodiac or DS to Pandora.

IMO the Pandora is exactly the same device as my beloved Zodiac.

The Pandora will never reach mainstream adoption. There are the DS and PSP who do mainstream games for everyone well. However, the GP community has been hiding in the emulation / homebrew niche for too long. There is a lot of market potential for independent handheld games. They were what made the Zodiac great. There are a lot of awesome PDA games out there. And maybe we can convince people in the PC indie community to support an indie spirit handheld, especially if it does not involve too much effort.

The argument that emulation/freeware makes commercial games obsolete is bullshit. There are polished high quality games made for PDAs that don't have to hide from anything. They have got fresh content, new ideas, lots of love in them. Of course people buy good games!

I feel it's necessary that Pandora customers are encouraged to buy commercial games. Ship the unit with demos, sell games at the official website, spam people with new game releases. Both the official people and the community need to be open and positive towards commercial games, then it can work.

I want games by Toyspring, Redshift, Introversion, Astraware, PDAmill etc. on this device as well as commercial games from the homebrew communtiy.

 

[PokeParadox]

Of course commercial games can work. This community is very understanding towards commercial endevours on GP2X. Just look at the reception of Wind and Water...
Also none of the commercial games released have been put on that torrent site.
Majority of people, will buy a game if they think it's good, it's at a reasonable price and the people that made the game are not part of some stupidly big, evil corporate conglomerate! :lol: