Commercial Games/mainstream?


Yrx

the Happy Conqueror
Joined
Aug 3, 2007
Messages
528
Age
35
Website
Visit site
We all know that Pandora is going to be powerful, probably more so than a PSP. So I've kind of been wondering about where you want this to go. If you get the word out to more than just our little community, and provided the UI is easy to use, then this has the potential to go mainstream, or close to it. If that happens, commercial developers might get interested. This might actually get some good commercial games. But because of the media format, DRM would be necessary. In addition, assuming this gets popular, these forums are going to be swamped with people asking the same questions over and over again, including questions on where to get ROMs.

These are just some thoughts I'm having, so I guess they're nothing huge to worry about. I mean, I'm even kind of assuming that this thing is going to take off like a rocket, which it might not. But just out of curiousity, do you have a plan on how to implement commercial games should the oppurtunity arise?
 
You won't really need DRM for online Games. One could provide the binary for "free" and authenticate against the server. Since there is WiFi, online play is not that unlikely.
 
Well hey, not like I know these things, I just play the games, lol. Just so long as something will work. I guess companies could even release games on small SD cards and just boot to the game.

Still, what I said before is a little worrying. This is a nice little community, and it would be really miserable if a bunch of noobs ruined it. I mean, we get a couple every once in a while, but not too many. But yeah, I'm probably just paranoid.

>.>
 
Well, idiots come and go no matter what you do.

I'd like to see commercial games, for example a port of DEFCON:
http://www.everybody-dies.com
There is already a linuxversion, so I guess it uses OpenGL, not DirectX, so it would be portable. The question is whether introversion wants to port it.
It's a great game and should be playable on Pandora without major tweaks in gameplay so you could even play against ppl using fullsize PCs.

ahh, the dreaming.
 
We will have to see how many people are actually buying. Also if there is any marketing to be done. As the pandora is planned as an opensource platform for homebrew and community stuff as far as I understand, I doubt that it will create enough fuss to make commercial developers interested. But who knows, maybe we are lucky.
 
I too would like to see commercial apps (esp. games) for the Pandora, but this has nothing to do with DRM- that's only really for people like Apple and Big Media who want to sell you music and video that you can only watch a few times if you're part of their 'club' (their DRM/corporate friendly OS and apps) and then you find out a few weeks later that you can't watch your files anymore thanks to DRM. No thanks!

Quick! Someone unleash Stallman! ;)
 
Imo indie developers would be the best bet in getting some commercial games. There are already some that have linux versions of their games and being a small team makes it easy for them to decide to port it. Of course this also depends on the ease with which games will be portable to pandora (but given the full opengl support this should be better than gp2x), of course if it takes too much time being a small team will make them decide not to port.

It may be a good idea to compile a list of games/developers we would like to see on pandora then selecting a few to approach (possibly bribing enticing them with a sample, committing to buying the game if it is released). This way it may be possible to get some extra (launch) titles ready.
 
PomPom- Mutant Storm and SpaceTrooper!

gawd I wish more people were making OpenGL retro-style arcade games for Linux!
 
Yrx said:
We all know that Pandora is going to be powerful, probably more so than a PSP. So I've kind of been wondering about where you want this to go. If you get the word out to more than just our little community, and provided the UI is easy to use, then this has the potential to go mainstream, or close to it.

This is an interesting area, not touched on in all the posts so far. At the moment there are a small group of people enthusing about a proposed piece of kit, which has got to the stage of speccing and so forth, by an even smaller group of dedicated enthusiasts. In order for Pandora to be a success, that small group of enthusiasts will have to have a sound business plan, finances in place, systems for dealing with orders, returns, marketing, managing the accounts etc. Whether the kit is close to or better than a PSP isn't relevant, what is is that PSP has Sony behind it, and you just aren't going to get mainstream developers buying into it, as they're focussed on Sony, Nintendo handhelds. They just won't bother with Pandora. Same thing happened with the Zodiac a few years back - excellent bit of kit, but couldn't compete with the big players in the market.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mark:

I'm sure Craig and co are well aware of your points but they're not competing with Sony and Nintendo and Pandora is an entirely different beast to the Zodiac.

The Wii/ DS and XBOX360 are nothing other than games consoles. Pandora is a powerful PDA (or micro-laptop, whatever) AND gaming device (well, emulation device at least) and it is unfair to try to compare the Zodiac or DS to Pandora.

OK, so the PS3 does run Linux but Sony SEVERLY crippled it by not allowing people access to the GPU, which also resulted in less RAM being available under Linux. Myself and many other hobbyists and homebrew devs were immensely disappointed by this decision and we will NOT forget it in a hurry.

Pandora will be a genuinely usable pocket computing and gaming device the likes of which the world has never seen - don't tell me there isn't a massive potential market for this!
 
You've also got to remember that every other PDA available (with the exception of the Zaurus which is twice the price of the Pandora, half the spec and only available in Japan / mail order) today is running Windows Mobile, which is an absolute joke compared to Linux/X11, which of course many people are dumping XP and Vista in favour of and for many good reasons. I would imagine the main reason for this has been that it has only really been big PC vendors like HP, compaq and Dell who have been making PDAs and they get bullied by MS not to support or advertise Linux, or else they'd start charging them silly money for licensing XP/Vista for their desktops and WM for their PDA's
 
danboid said:
Mark:

Pandora will be a genuinely usable pocket computing and gaming device the likes of which the world has never seen - don't tell me there isn't a massive potential market for this!
Yes, there would be a huge market for this, but I don't think Pandora will be reaching that market.

I'm not sure that you -can- have one device that covers both pocket computing and gaming, and I think the Pandora design evidences this. It doesn't quite work as a gameplaying device, as plenty of posts testify, and it simply won't work as a laptop replacement. It's just too small for a laptop replacement/substitute. I've tried several sub-micro laptops in the past, including the smaller Sony Vaio's from c2000, and there's a point below which they are just too small.

I have to, at present, disagree with it being a 'genuinely usable pocket computing and gaming device'. For my money the hardware should follow the open software principles, and give people the option. Have a form factor like the GP2x/Zodiac, that allows it to be a game machine, but also a PDA that can be used vertically, and also a media player for both vids and for music, and a wifi web browser. But give users the options for a USB keyboard if thats what they want, and a cradle if thats what they want etc.

I've been waiting to give up my Zodiac, and I had hoped that the craiginator would be the beast, but I just feel its trying to be too many things at once, and will end up not doing any of them as well as it could. I think what Craig and the guys (and gals?) are doing is great, but take a look at the poll results, if you're only getting 1 in 5 of those hardcore peeps who have been eagerly waiting for the Craiginator, giving the design the thumbs up, to my mind that equates to only a very small proprotion of joe public liking the design.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I really do think that Pandora is being mostly designed from a gaming standpoint. That's definitely what pops into my head every time I think about it. I think we can trust CraigIX and Co. to make the controls work, since they're all gamers.

The UMPC aspect of Pandora only really gets into my head if I start thinking about it more. For me, that's just going to be a nice little addition that justifies and then some whatever reserves I have about the price.

Also, you mentioned people not liking the design. First of all, there are a good chunk of people that initially hate the design, and then it grows on them. Give it a few days, maybe even a week. Also, it isn't finalized, and the end result is very likely to be ergonomic for both gaming and computing.

Oh, and to reply to what you said earlier, I'm not even sure this is meant to try and hit mainstream, after thinking about it. Certainly to draw a larger following, but I can't picture a bunch of little kids running around with a Pandora, you know? Or the typical PSP guy.
 
Obviously many of you speed-read, so I've bolded the important parts. Read all the way through if you have the time.

Mark Watson said:
Yes, there would be a huge market for this, but I don't think Pandora will be reaching that market.
Not if they don't get the proper advertisement out there, they won't. If the world doesn't know, the world doesn't buy. Unfortunately everyone knows about Nintendo and Sony, but Pandora? And unless there's a proper library of good games (essential for good console sales) Pandora won't be reaching that particular market.

However, the users in the same market as the Nokia, or other such devices, will not be able to resist this magnificent device, once presented with it. :)

Mark Watson said:
I'm not sure that you -can- have one device that covers both pocket computing and gaming, and I think the Pandora design evidences this. It doesn't quite work as a gameplaying device, as plenty of posts testify, and it simply won't work as a laptop replacement. It's just too small for a laptop replacement/substitute. I've tried several sub-micro laptops in the past, including the smaller Sony Vaio's from c2000, and there's a point below which they are just too small.
Well, here's a guy to prove you wrong. I am completely planning on this replacing my laptop. Not only will it play games better than the GP2X, it provides the basic essentials for a laptop. E-mail, web browsing, and instant messaging are all there. And if I need something else, I'll just SSH/VNC home to my desktop and work from there. And, since it plays movies pretty much in whatever form they'll come in, I don't need to bring my Zire 71 around.

Let me give you a few of my experiences with a laptop, if you'd like to hear them:
  • Whenever I know/guess I'll be sitting around for long periods of time, I always bring my laptop with me. When I get on it, I always do one of two things: Pull up BZFlag, Globulation2, or some other Linux game, and play around with that
  • Pull up SSH, turn on my VNC server, pull up VNC, and start reading my mail, working on my PHP software, and instant messaging from there.
[*]Recently a college had presented a collection of classes to "outsiders" they could take during the weekend. It's a fairly laid-back event, where friends go to learn new things while having fun. Laptops are almost always brought for those computer sessions in which some new language or some new functionality is presented. Even in a pharmaceutical class, it was nice to be able to take notes and look up long words we didn't understand.
Obviously I could use my laptop a lot more, but I use my desktop the most because I like to keep all my data (IM logs, e-mail, files) in one location. Right now I am using my laptop because we have family over and they are sleeping in the same room as my desktop. What am I using it for? Browsing! Can the Pandora do that? Absolutely!

This will completely and utterly replace my laptop. :)


I haven't mentioned gaming yet, but I'm not sure how you can say this is not going to work out for gaming after seeing the pictures and specs. Look at the community, their games, and the device they developed it for, and then look at the Pandora. I'm pretty sure it's a much-needed upgrade, and nothing but.

Mark Watson said:
I have to, at present, disagree with it being a 'genuinely usable pocket computing and gaming device'.
We'll have to give the Pandora time, then, to prove itself. ;)

Mark Watson said:
I just feel its trying to be too many things at once, and will end up not doing any of them as well as it could.
First and foremost in the minds of Craigix and Co. has to be emulation for them to really go anywhere in the short term. Please show me where the emulation part has been thinly executed (besides the shoulder buttons - the jury is still out on that). Not only that, but merely providing a touch-screen and keyboard would appear to have covered the basics needed for a PDA.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
QUOTE

I'm not sure that you -can- have one device that covers both pocket computing and gaming, and I think the Pandora design evidences this. It doesn't quite work as a gameplaying device, as plenty of posts testify, and it simply won't work as a laptop replacement. It's just too small for a laptop replacement/substitute. I've tried several sub-micro laptops in the past, including the smaller Sony Vaio's from c2000, and there's a point below which they are just too small. I have to, at present, disagree with it being a 'genuinely usable pocket computing and gaming device



By saying this I instantly know that you haven't had the pleasure of running pdaXii13, a Linux distro for Zaurus c3x00 devices? Everythings all pre-configured and I can:

Run Firefox and OOo, Abiword, Gnumeric etc.
p2p with amule and bittorrent
play any kind of media file under mplayer and its guis
Play Atari ST, NES, SNES, Neo-geo games full speed with sound and PSX about 2/3rds speed
Acces my PCs files easily via gftp
burn CD-ROMS with gnomebaker
The GIMP for graphics and then use GCC to compile ANY Linux app I want - sounds like a full desktop to me! Just a shame it lacks 3D accel, more memory and USB2... not Pandora!


QUOTE

For my money the hardware should follow the open software principles, and give people the option. Have a form factor like the GP2x/Zodiac, that allows it to be a game machine, but also a PDA that can be used vertically, and also a media player for both vids and for music, and a wifi web browser.



You could use Pandora vertically by folding the screen out all the way, but why would you do that when its much more comfy to put it on a surface and ANGLE THE SCREEN. See?


QUOTE

I've been waiting to give up my Zodiac, and I had hoped that the craiginator would be the beast, but I just feel its trying to be too many things at once, and will end up not doing any of them as well as it could. I think what Craig and the guys (and gals?) are doing is great, but take a look at the poll results, if you're only getting 1 in 5 of those hardcore peeps who have been eagerly waiting for the Craiginator, giving the design the thumbs up, to my mind that equates to only a very small proprotion of joe public liking the design.



Yes, why don't YOU look at the poll results? I've just checked them now at as it stands ~57% of people like of love the design and only 10% hate it. On top of this, the person who started the original thread on not liking the design (Nova) has now received his cardboard copy of the design and loves it instead. He has now also come to the rational decision that clamshell is the one and only true path to pocket computing/gaming enlightenment.

EDIT

Ooh, and I also forgot to mention what amazing vnc/rdp clients the Zaurus and soon Pandora make. I can run both XP (with sound) and Ubuntu full speed and very usably on my Zaurus and it will be just as good or better on Pandora
 
Just in addition to what's already been said, I'd like to point out that trying to be too many things is only bad if it FAILS at being those things. This is clearly a device that can pull it all off. Like javaJake said, I think it just needs time to prove itself.
 
My opinion is probably irrelevant, but I'll air it anyway:

I think a release brand should be put into place, kind of like Nintendo's golden seal of old, and then a standard contract that benefits both the developers and publisher should be set up. Something like a flat fee for finishing the release candidate and then a percentage of the sales, perhaps. To get the contract, the developer would have to submit an application that involves an outline of the project and a resume of earlier projects.

Of course, you could have a tiered model for contracts so that well-known developers like Moonpod and Puppygames would get the flat fee (and even a difference depending on the project being a port or an original game) and beginning developers without a "brand" name would only get the percentage.

I also feel that Craig and the others should approach various indie developers with successful games to gauge interest in developing for the Pandora, maybe giving out free kits to those of them who seem to be interested. I don't know how big the marketing budget would be for the Pandora, but a few free units to well-known developers (and particularly ones that keep well-trafficked blogs) would be cheaper than a small boxed ad in some magazine, and it would make the magazines take notice anyway once people start talking about the thing in their blogs, etc. Think Amazon's Kindle and the way they've been giving away free ones to certain tech-interested authors.

I dunno what kind of traffic John Romero gets to his site, but he blogs a lot and he seems to be all up in the mobile gaming gig. Not too far from there to the Pandora. Now, his name is mud to a certain degree these days, but at the same time he IS a name, and if people say "John Romero is developing for some thing called Pandora!" then at least that is a point of interest.

I dunno. Maybe I'm crazy. I tend to only see these ideas from one perspective, so feel free to infuse it with your own perspectives.
 
Back
Top