Bugs and Calculations

[matzesu]

As Mobile Internet, is a nice too have, but not necesaccy in 4 g for me, i think i would be happy whit the 3G Version..
2 Months (tm) in best case, seems like i will get it around my birthday, in July,
Would the restpaymant bevore shipping also work whit klarna ??

 

[Klumpen]

What exactly is the difference in speed between 3G and 4G?
Does it make any difference in browsing and sending/receiving eMail?

I've never used a mobile internet connection before but would just like to know.

 

[Black Sliver]

What exactly is the difference in speed between 3G and 4G?

Downlink 21Mbit vs. 150Mbit. But it really depends on the network load - as long as few people use LTE it is really fast. In areas where lots of people use 3G (most android users don't turn off their mobile data), 3G may be slow. In areas with good reception (and less than 100% load) the only difference is when streaming HD. Netflix, youtube, etc. may have to reduce the quality to serve over 3G.

Iirc the 4G module works in more regions/providers than the 3G module (but not in the US), which would make it more usable for most non-us citizens ?

 

[CommanderB]

Probably it would really make sense to make a recent poll to determine the percentage of people who would buy EU4G /US 4G and Wifi.

Are there any current estimations for this?

 

[EvilDragon]

Paypal are asshats that will freeze your account for 3 months for no apparent reason whenever they feel like it, usually at the most inconvenient of times when you really need the money. I can see why no business owner would want to touch them with a 30 foot pole.

Often they are, yes. But once your business is seriously making money, they are totally different. They call me up when something is wrong and we could solve all issues before, no freezing or anything.

They don't want to lose a customer who has about 10k-20k EUR per month in PayPal payments.

 

[Christoph.Krn]

Downlink 21Mbit vs. 150Mbit. But it really depends on the network load - as long as few people use LTE it is really fast. In areas where lots of people use 3G (most android users don't turn off their mobile data), 3G may be slow. In areas with good reception (and less than 100% load) the only difference is when streaming HD.

That's not the only difference, 4G usually has significantly lower latency than 3G. This difference can (very) noticeably affect website loading times, for example, and also on-the-go multiplayer games. I don't have exact numbers right now, sorry...

 

[Faust]

But the 4g module has also 3g capacity right? I mean if there isn't 4g around, I'll receive 3g? If the 4g is only US or EU, what about the 3g?

 

[Eight Bit]

I too would not want to be forced into a first batch 3G, sorry but 4G is a must if you want to play non-turn based online games or like watching video's. For mere browsing or emailing 3G would be good enough although a lot slower. Web pages seem to be so heavy lately, sometimes exceeding 5MB.
It's either waiting 3 seconds for 4G or 15 seconds for 3G before you can start scrolling down.

I wouldn't know about the mobile data chip in the Pyra but my 4G phone can do HSDPA, 3G, Edge and GPRS/GSM too.

When looking at this frequency table I see some frequencies used in the US are used on other continents too maybe it's just a matter of chosing the right provider?

Continent Frequencies 4G LTE
Europe: 800/900/1800/2600 MHz
America: 700/800/1700AWS/1800/1900
Afrika: 1800/2100/2300
Asia: 800/900/1800/2100/2600
Middle East: 800/1800/2300/2600
[doublepost=1460366769,1460366421][/doublepost]Just read that 4G LTE is not true 4G but actually 3.9G 3GPP... more info's on wikipedia about that, interesting stuff.

 

[zoranc]

It will most probably be 290 EUR (same as the pre-preorder), the rest doesn't need to be paid before the unit is in stock.
And yes, by that, you can choose when you want to get it. It'll ship once the payment is there.

If you are able to calculate exact final price (it seems you intend to do that), I would suggest that you accept also payments for the full price (including the shipping). Also payments of the rest of the price for the pre-preorders. Hopefully that way you could reduce the required size of the initial batch...

 

[EvilDragon]

But the 4g module has also 3g capacity right? I mean if there isn't 4g around, I'll receive 3g? If the 4g is only US or EU, what about the 3g?

That's a good question - it supports 3G, yes. So the EU 4G module should still be usable with 4G in the US.

I too would not want to be forced into a first batch 3G, sorry but 4G is a must if you want to play non-turn based online games or like watching video's. For mere browsing or emailing 3G would be good enough although a lot slower. Web pages seem to be so heavy lately, sometimes exceeding 5MB.
It's either waiting 3 seconds for 4G or 15 seconds for 3G before you can start scrolling down.

Most users in Germany have 10 - 15MBit/s maximum internet at home, so that's slower than 3G

If you are able to calculate exact final price (it seems you intend to do that), I would suggest that you accept also payments for the full price (including the shipping). Also payments of the rest of the price for the pre-preorders. Hopefully that way you could reduce the required size of the initial batch...

The problem is not the downpayment, the problem is the final profit made. A lot is needed to start the second batch without anymore preorders

 

[Eight Bit]

Most users in Germany have 10 - 15MBit/s maximum internet at home, so that's slower than 3G

I know I'm spoiled with my 100Mbit cable connection and spiffy 4G mobile data in Amsterdam

My wife her parents have a house in Sauerland near Willingen where we reside for short vacations a couple times per year... I know by experience that mobile data coverage in germany isn't up to par everywhere yet, I'm lucky to get Edge reception there if anything at all, it annoys the hell out of me
Germany is a big country with lots of mountains and hills... I get why it's difficult to get good coverage.
Tip: When chosing a provider, chose one that's on the 800MHz band as that radiates through matter better than the higher frequencies.

 

[Msquared]

Paypal are asshats that will freeze your account for 3 months for no apparent reason whenever they feel like it, usually at the most inconvenient of times when you really need the money.

Often they are, yes. But once your business is seriously making money, they are totally different.

I hope you don't end up with the same experience that Neo900 had: https://neo900.org/news/paypal-trouble-delays-project

tl;dr: Neo900 is a project to put new innards in the Nokia N900 case; the way the project is running seems quite similar to Pyra, but PayPal froze all of Neo900's money just when they need to use it for purchasing. PayPal claimed it's some policy thing to guard against charge-backs; they never reneged on the freeze even though everyone pre-ordering knew that Neo900 was a risky venture and (as far as I know) would even have willingly stated as much to PayPal. In the end, Neo900 only got their money from PayPal because they waited out PayPal's 180-day "timeout" for the freeze, not because PayPal came to their senses or changed their mind. ie: there was no negotiating for PayPal to reverse their decision; they brought their decision down like the fist of the gods, and that was that.

 

[matzesu]

My Note 2 supports only 3G, and once i watched Youtube on it on a long drive on german "autobahn" ( not as driver)..
So 3G also is not that bad at all..,
my dataplan is only 300 mb, and when i reach the 300 mb i only get 2G Speed until the end of the month..

So 3G in Blue for me please..

 

[benoitb]

That's not the only difference, 4G usually has significantly lower latency than 3G. This difference can (very) noticeably affect website loading times, for example, and also on-the-go multiplayer games. I don't have exact numbers right now, sorry...

Indeed, the round-trip-time (RTT) is much improved on LTE. For such a device, it makes a lot of sense to use LTE.

Usages that benefit a lot from an improved RTT:
SSH, multiplayer gaming, web browsing, VOIP, video game streaming

Usages where RTT performance doesn't matter too much:
Video streaming, audio streaming, large file downloads
[doublepost=1460371841,1460371463][/doublepost]

Does the EU 4G one support US voice only networks? If so I'm fine with that. I was hoping to be able to get rid of my phone and carry less stuff.

I had a look at the specs and frequencies here:
http://www.gemalto.com/brochures-site/download-site/Documents/M2M_PLS8_datasheet.pdf

The important part is:
PLS8-E:
Penta Band LTE: 800/900/1800/2100/2600 MHz;
FDD-Band (20,8,3,7,1); Tri Band UMTS (WCDMA):
900/1800/2100 MHz; FDD-Band (8,3,1);
Dual Band GSM/GPRS/EDGE: 900/1800 MHz

PLS8-US:
Quad Band LTE: 700/850/AWS (1700/2100)/1900 MHz;
FDD-Band (17,5,4,2); Tri Band UMTS (WCDMA): 850/AWS
(1700/2100)/1900 MHz; FDD-Band (5,4,2)
Quad Band GSM/GPRS/EDGE: 850/900/1800/1900 MHz

You will have to do some research on the frequencies used by each mobile phone operator in the US.
I believe that at least GSM 900 must be supported by at least one of your operators. It would mean you will be able to place phone calls and send/receive SMS.
edit: I had a look here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellular_frequencies
It looks like you really don't have any GSM900 operator in the US
However, it looks like you have Sprint on LTE800. It seems to be their only low frequency for LTE, which could be good news since it might mean they are relying heavily on it for 4G coverage. However, I think the Pyra module doesn't do VoLTE (4G voice over IP), meaning for phone calls we're likely to do a CSFB (circuit switch fall back). This requires 2G or 3G access to establish a voice call. This won't be possible with Sprint's GSM and WCDMA frequencies.

And having traveled quite a bit, I can tell you the PLS8-E will be usable in almost all of Europe, Africa, Asia. It really is the "most-worldwide" option for LTE.

 

[Mr_Loon]

Luckily, no hardware bugs, but some more software quirks that make the hardware look bad.

Thanks for the update ED, now I understand why we're not seeing benchmarks for things like performance of SD card vs eMMC etc.

Talking of 'software quirks' what is the score with 3D drivers for Pyra? I know there were some problems but lost track if there was a definite plan for a solution / how that plan was going.

Regarding the 3G / 4G question do you have any solid data regarding how many people are interested & willing to pay for mobile data direct from Pyra, for instance what percentage of the 200 pre pre orders would be for a unit with mobile data?

 

[EvilDragon]

Talking of 'software quirks' what is the score with 3D drivers for Pyra? I know there were some problems but lost track if there was a definite plan for a solution / how that plan was going.

Will be done by one of the developers who hasn't got a Pyra prototype yet

Regarding the 3G / 4G question do you have any solid data regarding how many people are interested & willing to pay for mobile data direct from Pyra, for instance what percentage of the 200 pre pre orders would be for a unit with mobile data?

No, not yet.

 

[WizardStan]

I hope you don't end up with the same experience that Neo900 had: https://neo900.org/news/paypal-trouble-delays-project

Didn't the Pandora also have frozen paypal issues with the original pre-order and that's why all later ones were made with money transfers? Or was it just the bank Craigix was dealing with?

 

[EvilDragon]

Didn't the Pandora also have frozen paypal issues with the original pre-order and that's why all later ones were made with money transfers? Or was it just the bank Craigix was dealing with?

Yes, that was PayPal.
However, my status was VERY different at that time. No huge business account, I only had a couple hundred EUR sales per month at that time.
Now I got 10k - 20k per month and I even got a personal business contact person for PayPal.

 

[Swordfish II]

So I plan on buying two Pyra's. I don't want to be greedy about it during pre-orders and bump someone else out.... but I know you can use the cash. So which would you prefer; I order both at the start to get your numbers and cash up or just one?

Also I can pay the whole price upfront (actually preferable to me) if that would help.

Side note: Are colors locked in?

 

[Mr_Loon]

Regarding the 3G / 4G question do you have any solid data regarding how many people are interested & willing to pay for mobile data direct from Pyra, for instance what percentage of the 200 pre pre orders would be for a unit with mobile data?

No, not yet.

It seems like this would be very useful to know when it comes to deciding what to to with the whole 3G / 4G / US / ROTW question, it makes a lot of sense to me to directly contact (via email) the 200 to find out if they want & are willing to pay the necessary premium for mobile data. As well as this an official poll for those here who are not amongst the 200 would also help.

If that poll / direct inquiry also included questions about whether people wanted & were willing to pay the necessary premium for a 4GB Ram / 64GB eMMC model it would be even better, again I must stress I'm not saying you should make a 4GB / 64GB premium model just to find out if the idea makes sense in terms of profit / complexity / meeting customer desires etc.
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+1 for wanting to pay the full price (inc VAT & Delivery) up front as I don't want to budget for a certain price and then find this has changed due to currency fluctuations, even though my gut feel is the UK will vote to stay in the EU & the £ will rise in value against the Euro after June 23rd.