ARM vs. X86. Lets vote

[Askarus]

This is the thread for hard facts.

Please vote and keep the discussion in the other threads.

The more people vote the better the result will be, so please vote.

To avoid further discussion: There will be Mini-SD slots in the successor .

It's a special Linux-Swat version and will cost 1000+ Euro.

Happy voting.

If you want to comment, please do so, but don't write what's been discussed in the other threads already.

 

[Linux-SWAT]

I want a Motorola 68000 (that wasn't discussed).

 

[mindlord]

I want a central processor (ARM, x86, who cares) and 6 FPGA processors that can be programmed to function as any of the various chips that are in emulatable machines. This should make for some beefy emulation possibilities. Could you imagine programming a bunch of FPGA's to work together in a common platform to emulate a target device, like an Amiga, Saturn, or 80486 PC. That would be something special.

 

[milkshake]

That's too dreamy to ever come true

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

Don't care.

 

[mindlord]

@Milkshake:

At this point I treat anything having to do with the P2 as too dreamy to come true.

 

[PokeParadox]

ARM - I don't want to be having recompile my old stuff...

 

[F_Slim]

x86, because it allows to install many different OS without major issues and enhances portability of software (even a lot of closed source software like old PC games would just work ootb).

 

[Klumpen]

I want both

and two different GPUs (Nvidia and AMD)

and 2x 2GB ram where you can deactivate one for powersaving

and a mini disc slot

and an inbuild VCR (true retro)

and a toaster perhaps?

 

[ghostpatch]

x86, same reason as F_Slim

Linaro has made a huge progress but who knows how long it takes to clear all the fragmentation in the ARM world

 

[MrConfusion]

I want a central processor (ARM, x86, who cares) and 6 FPGA processors that can be programmed to function as any of the various chips that are in emulatable machines. This should make for some beefy emulation possibilities. Could you imagine programming a bunch of FPGA's to work together in a common platform to emulate a target device, like an Amiga, Saturn, or 80486 PC. That would be something special.

I can imagine programming them, I'll probably have nightmares all week next week, thank's a lot to you...

Anyway, since discussion is headed "that way", I want the unit (with keyboard, of course) to be wrist wearable and have support for "Google glass"-like technology (for apps) and Oculus Rift (for games). Display? Naaah... secondary issue at that point...

Oh, and I want it to have a Z80... that way it'll be a smooth transition for me to do assembly coding :rolleyes: .

(That is along with the FPGAS and ARM for compatibility and The Stuff The Real Coders Do for the Pandora, of course.)

(Edit: Dang, I just remembered most people want something like a mouse too... and those knobs that must loose calibration all the time... well, ED is clever, he'd figure out where to put them in a wrist computer...)

 

[WizardStan]

x86, because it allows to install many different OS without major issues

No it doesn't. The XBox has an x86 processor. Know how you install Windows on it? By first installing linux and then running Windows in a virtual machine. You cannot boot Windows on Microsoft's own console, despite the fact that it is 99% desktop PC. There is more to a PC than the CPU and IO devices, that 1% is important. If the P2 is to have any hope of running Windows it needs to be designed from the start with that in mind, not just ARM vs x86 but all the other stuff that the Windows boot loader assumes about the hardware that isn't necessarily true outside of a desktop.As far as non-Windows OSs, that's almost exclusively going to be some flavour of Linux or other open source kernel, and if it can be built for x86 it can be built for ARM, so that's a wash.

If you want to vote ARM vs x86 do so without the expectation of running Windows natively. The best possible outcome you should assume is that it will let us run existing x86 Linux distros with access to their existing x86 repositories and maybe be able to run Windows games and applications through WINE.

If EvilDragon wants it, and MWeston can design it, they might add the extra bits needed to boot maybe Windows, but it would not be easy, it would not be a free feature (in terms of cost and space), and odds are it would only work up to XP anyway; 7 and especially 8 are entirely new beasts.

 

[EssoAir]

ARM - I don't want to be having recompile my old stuff...

So you're lazy?

I want both


and two different GPUs (Nvidia and AMD)


and 2x 2GB ram where you can deactivate one for powersaving


and a mini disc slot


and an inbuild VCR (true retro)


and a toaster perhaps?

The toaster is a must

 

[EssoAir]

x86, because it allows to install many different OS without major issues

No it doesn't. The XBox has an x86 processor. Know how you install Windows on it? By first installing linux and then running Windows in a virtual machine. You cannot boot Windows on Microsoft's own console, despite the fact that it is 99% desktop PC. There is more to a PC than the CPU and IO devices, that 1% is important. If the P2 is to have any hope of running Windows it needs to be designed from the start with that in mind, not just ARM vs x86 but all the other stuff that the Windows boot loader assumes about the hardware that isn't necessarily true outside of a desktop.As far as non-Windows OSs, that's almost exclusively going to be some flavour of Linux or other open source kernel, and if it can be built for x86 it can be built for ARM, so that's a wash.If you want to vote ARM vs x86 do so without the expectation of running Windows natively. The best possible outcome you should assume is that it will let us run existing x86 Linux distros with access to their existing x86 repositories and maybe be able to run Windows games and applications through WINE.If EvilDragon wants it, and MWeston can design it, they might add the extra bits needed to boot maybe Windows, but it would not be easy, it would not be a free feature (in terms of cost and space), and odds are it would only work up to XP anyway; 7 and especially 8 are entirely new beasts.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesnt the 360 have a Power PC processor?

 

[ZXDunny]

x86, because it allows to install many different OS without major issues

No it doesn't. The XBox has an x86 processor. Know how you install Windows on it? By first installing linux and then running Windows in a virtual machine. You cannot boot Windows on Microsoft's own console, despite the fact that it is 99% desktop PC. There is more to a PC than the CPU and IO devices, that 1% is important. If the P2 is to have any hope of running Windows it needs to be designed from the start with that in mind, not just ARM vs x86 but all the other stuff that the Windows boot loader assumes about the hardware that isn't necessarily true outside of a desktop.As far as non-Windows OSs, that's almost exclusively going to be some flavour of Linux or other open source kernel, and if it can be built for x86 it can be built for ARM, so that's a wash.If you want to vote ARM vs x86 do so without the expectation of running Windows natively. The best possible outcome you should assume is that it will let us run existing x86 Linux distros with access to their existing x86 repositories and maybe be able to run Windows games and applications through WINE.If EvilDragon wants it, and MWeston can design it, they might add the extra bits needed to boot maybe Windows, but it would not be easy, it would not be a free feature (in terms of cost and space), and odds are it would only work up to XP anyway; 7 and especially 8 are entirely new beasts.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesnt the 360 have a Power PC processor?

There was an XBox before the XBox360 came out. You might not have been born at that point.

D.

 

[EssoAir]

Oh! you mean the OG one. I remember playing that when I was little

 

[F_Slim]

If you want to vote ARM vs x86 do so without the expectation of running Windows natively. The best possible outcome you should assume is that it will let us run existing x86 Linux distros with access to their existing x86 repositories and maybe be able to run Windows games and applications through WINE.

I don't know where you got the strange idea that I want to run Windows natively on the device? but yes: I expect that it will become a lot easier to install your favourite flavor of Linux and/or to run closed software which only comes as pre-compiled binary. I mean even with open software it would already make life a lot easier for the normal user if they would not have to compile everything themselfes (which essentially means: wait for someone who has the knowledge and time to do it for them).

 

[EssoAir]

If you want to vote ARM vs x86 do so without the expectation of running Windows natively. The best possible outcome you should assume is that it will let us run existing x86 Linux distros with access to their existing x86 repositories and maybe be able to run Windows games and applications through WINE.

I don't know where you got the strange idea that I want to run Windows natively on the device? but yes: I expect that it will become a lot easier to install your favourite flavor of Linux and/or to run closed software which only comes as pre-compiled binary. I mean even with open software it would already make life a lot easier for the normal user if they would not have to compile everything themselfes (which essentially means: wait for someone who has the knowledge and time to do it for them).

I have alwayse wanted a UMPC. the first one that finally made me buy was the Pandora. And even though I love it, I wish I wasn't so limited by ARM. There is so much software for x86 that I just dont have access to.


So while I would /love/ to have Windows run on it like any other Laptop, I dont see this as an expectation of x86. I voted x86 because of the software already available for Linux x86 that isnt available to ARM. See my thread "MPLABX IDE on Pandora" for one of the many examples

 

[DaMummy]

i cant believe this is an actual topic worth discussing....

 

[Exophase]

This thread is basically making it sound like we get a choice between x86 or ARM where everything else (cost, performance, power consumption, GPU, peripherals, everything) is equal. No way is that going to be the case. The only meaningful poll you can make here is "do you demand ARM is used at all costs" or "do you demand x86 is used at all costs." Which are both extreme viewpoints.