Potential X86 (Non ARM) SoC Alternatives


TrashyMG said:
^All this talk about VIA makes me wonder what Transmeta are up to these days... oh.. well..nvm
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Gone... wikipedia would probably say for sure, but as I recall they tried to become armlike (design/ip only, no manufacturing of actual parts) then got sold, then the buyer "bought it".

Shame in the sense that it was academically interesting what they initially did.

Understandable for the exact same reason?-(

But no Intel compatibles from them for years in any case, I don't think they ever made anything other than the Crusoe...
 
It looks like that's mostly work for the 3D processor, not for the CPU. I don't think the latest PowerVR is a lot behind that (if it even is).

The VITA has pretty good graphics as well and uses a Cortex A9.

Is that high-quality 3D interesting for a Pandora successor? I don't think many homebrew / Indie stuff needs that complex graphics.
 
EvilDragon said:
Is that high-quality 3D interesting for a Pandora successor? I don't think many homebrew / Indie stuff needs that complex graphics.
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Only if apkenv or the android port get a lot of work

or if it's important for PSP, N64, Dreamcast or even Playstation 2 emulation.
 
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EvilDragon said:
It looks like that's mostly work for the 3D processor, not for the CPU. I don't think the latest PowerVR is a lot behind that (if it even is).


The VITA has pretty good graphics as well and uses a Cortex A9.


Is that high-quality 3D interesting for a Pandora successor? I don't think many homebrew / Indie stuff needs that complex graphics.
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It depends.  Does the Pandora successor need to just do just what the Pandora did and maybe a bit better?  Or does it need to totally re-define what a handheld device can do?

I think that high-quality 3D is more than interesting for a Pandora successor.  It's been a while, but that actually looked like Half Life 2 Episode 1.  It's far more demanding on a system than general Half Life 2 is.

The homebrew/Indie stuff can run on the existing Pandora.  Any successor, regardless of SoC has to be able to run that type of software as a given.

To have the Pandora successfully do what's in those videos or be able to go this far -beyond- the indie & home brew stuff would be outright amazing.

If the Pandora were on a Z3770, running a mainstream Linux distribution (Ubunt?  Mint?  Debian?) and have access to install Steam - and have the Steam for Linux games run (which it looks like they would), AND run all of the home-brew, AND be dual-bootable to full Android, AND be able to act as a full office computer replacement in your pocket...   THAT would be amazing.

It's a high bar, but the stars are aligned to make it possible.  But that combination might have a drawback - it could wind up being too popular.  You might have to scale from producing hundreds per month to tens of thousands per month.  Would it still be fun for you?
 
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Well, but ANY current SoC has a GPU that is capable of homebrew games, Indie games, Android games and probably also stuff like Half Life 2 (though the closed source would be an issue here).
 
Grench said:
If the Pandora were on a Z3770, running a mainstream Linux distribution (Ubunt?  Mint?  Debian?) and have access to install Steam - and have the Steam for Linux games run (which it looks like they would), AND run all of the home-brew, AND be dual-bootable to full Android, AND be able to act as a full office computer replacement in your pocket...   THAT would be amazing.
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Now that's a lot of ifs...

Is it not infeasible that some major player like Asus/Acer/Whatever decides to build a pocketable Steam Machine, which, it seems to me, you're after?

Assume Valve really manages to pull this off and their ecosystem becomes a viable alternative to owning the PS<insert some big number> or XBOX<insert some small number>. (Now THAT is a big if...).

It is pretty much inevitable that big OEMs building steam machines will make not only Steam laptops (a certainty!), but umpclikes eventually too.

Whether they have a copy of the controller Valve designed or a keyboard is then a totally different matter.

So is your "game" all about the Pandora successor being the first such device?

I don't think there's going to be any brand loyalty in the target audience of Steam machines if that's what you're after.

I know my brand loyalty on PC matters is very clear indeed: I avoid everything that has proven bad, but buy whoever sells me the cheapest stuff at the time of purchase.

Steam machines try to be consoles with PC market rules?

If you point is all about being the first pocketable steam machine, then I do not think it is always best to be the first in everything. Let someone like Archos mess up in that area first...

But I'm sure I'm just totally missing something here, because I thought Atom branded stuff is not "quite" speedy enough to get called a Steam Machine in any case and thus this is all "academical" at this point.

If I were interested enough, I might actually be able to figure this out (what is needed to brand as Steam Machine) by browsing, but since I'm not I'm sure you or someone else will enlighten me on this in a minute :).

I simply read this Steam Machine whoopeedoostuff to be kind of like the old, old, old, ooooooold "MPC" sticker you were allowed to put on an OEM PC once it fulfilled certain specs and criteria... In this case that would then be some minimum specs and SteamOS...
 
I think if the Pandora 2 could play the current Pandora titles + all Loki Games (like Heroes of Might and Magic 3, Rune) and new Linux Games (savage 1+2, heroes of newerth, prey, doom3, half life 2) it would be more interessting.
 
EvilDragon said:
Well, but ANY current SoC has a GPU that is capable of homebrew games, Indie games, Android games and probably also stuff like Half Life 2 (though the closed source would be an issue here).
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Closed source X86 compiled Linux programs is a missing piece that this one SoC could get us that no other one can.

Yes, Steam is a huge chunk of that - their 200+? games that are currently in their Steam for Linux library.

However, there are others - Neverwinter Nights 1 has a full Linux client (and server) that include multiplayer networking.  Think mORPG with user generated worlds/maps/monsters/etc...  (Little m as each server has a practical limit of around 32 players.)  It's a native Linux game that shipped with a world builder and a headless stand-alone server component.

Do I think it should be advertised as, "The first portable Steam Box"?  No.  I think that it would be fine to list as one of it's many many many capabilities though.  It shouldn't even ship with Steam on it, but nothing should prevent a user from installing it.

Not just ANY current SoC will have a GPU with FOSS support.  As far as we can tell, the Z3770 does.

I understand your hesitation to consider a non-ARM alternative.  I see the z3770 as a way to get expanded capabilities without loosing any current capabilities.  Yes, there would be some transitional pains.

Thank you for giving it some consideration and thought.  I know it's tempting to dismiss it outright because it isn't ARM.  However, I think you'll find that it meets every other criteria that has been found to throw at it.
 
Grench said:
...

Yes, Steam is a huge chunk of that - their 200+? games that are currently in their Steam for Linux library.

...

However, there are others - Neverwinter Nights 1 has a full Linux client...

...

Do I think it should be advertised as, "The first portable Steam Box"? No.

...
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And now I understood it :). It seems I mixed up two somewhat different things here...

An x86 CPU would cause a major stirrup with all Wineable games too, though. Steam is only different because it is so "trivial" for the end user. That ease of use might also be achievable for a pretty sizable amount of budget titles with a nice looking Wine.pnd. That is budget titles you don't need to find from GOG, but you can actually go into a brick and mortar store to buy. I still suspect their practical playability on such a small screen, but people have different tastes, varying eyesight and I certainly don't "get" smartphone gaming in this respect either... so that's just me...
 
notaz, just a hypothethical question.  Would you consider putting yourself in the position to support P2 with x86 SoC?  I know you don't like x86 as mentioned somewhere, but would you rethink and perhaps, I don't know, make your own OS on P2 in x86?  
 
Impressive performance this new Intel chip :)

This is Half Life 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUVNy1_k8Xs
 
Okay the Gamecube emulation there isn't what I'd classify as playable with that SKU and platform given the severe sound distortion, but I must admit the others are impressive.  Although the village and after the island is frozen would be a more meaningful test then the initial beach if one wants to advocate it can run Crysis reasonably well. 

To be fair that is the Z3740 in the ASUS T100, and the Z3770 people are dreaming we could swing has a 10% higher base CPU frequency and a 28% higher turbo frequency.  Dolphin would require some more optimization, but I could see an argument for future performance.

However

https://www.youtube.com/embed/Y6O3EtTJlJc?feature=oembed which does appear to actually be further along in reaching that goal.
 
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