microSDXC, SDXC, and mixed configurations

[Binky]

I'm going to declare victory of SD over microSD in this debate and cease replying to him.

Thats not a good way to end an argument.


Its also largely meaningless.


Both fullSD and microSD are compromises, it just depends weather/how much you value performance/capacity over physical space.


That question probably can't be answered before Craig&team unveil teh awsomes.

profanity and name calling rather than arguing the merits or flaws of types of hardware under various usage scenarios, it's time to stop.

Seems sensible -_-

 

[Grench]

I'm going to declare victory of SD over microSD in this debate and cease replying to him.

Thats not a good way to end an argument.


Its also largely meaningless.

True, but trying to debate hardware functionality with someone who grinds the debate down to profanity, name calling, demanding 'supporting evidence' rather than a counter solution or argument - that gets tiresome and pointless too.

Both fullSD and microSD are compromises, it just depends weather/how much you value performance/capacity over physical space.
That question probably can't be answered before Craig&team unveil teh awsomes.

I give performance & capacity the edge on 'need' in the case of a device's primary boot device. I would rather remove the physical dial, slider switch, microphone before purposely making the device perform less than it can.

profanity and name calling rather than arguing the merits or flaws of types of hardware under various usage scenarios, it's time to stop.

Seems sensible -_-

Thank you.

 

[Exophase]

Let's recap what actually happened here.


1) I say that I think if internal (micro)SD is used its replacement should be discouraged because the original card should be in if it needs to be RMA'd


2) Grench says that upon RMA the internal card SHOULD be removed to protect sensitive data, and that he removes harddrives from computers before he RMAs them


3) I say that I'm surprised that the companies let him do this, and note that one seller wouldn't accept a computer I tried to return for repairs because it had a different video card that I forgot about


4) Grench says that I didn't actually forget anything (putting it in quotes) and that I either deliberately was trying to defraud the company or already knew I voided the warranty and wasn't eligible for repair


5) I'm outraged by the accusation and give him "fuck you", then quickly edit it out because I didn't want to escalate it there


6) Grench responds to show everyone that I edited it out


7) I stand back by the fuck you and add that he's an asshole (in no short part because he decided to make my edit public rather than let it go)


8) Grench declares that he's won the argument on microSD vs SD (not sure what specific argument exactly)


How the flying fuck does that work Grench? And why are you allowed to make searing personal attacks but "fuck you" in response is crossing the line?


It sounds more like you were just waiting for an excuse to not have to respond to me anymore. And that you hold a lot of value in "winning" arguments. If you really didn't want this to escalate you shouldn't have posted my edit, regardless of how you might think it makes you look like the bigger man.

 

[bismuthdrummer]

I'm going to declare victory of SD over microSD in this debate and cease replying to him.

The winning vote - summarizing categories - is that people WANT at least two SD slots in the device - and don't care much whether it has microSD in addition to those or not.

If Grench said it, it's official. You can just add up the number of votes in each category to tell you the most preferred configuration.


Folks, the results are in and at this time we show for the internal storage category:


57 for microSDXC


32 for SDXC


28 for NAND


19 for no internal media


So in complete contradiction to Grench's conclusion, we see the people prefer microSD over SD for internal storage even though they prefer SD over microSD. Are they all crazy?


Don't trust what the poll shows in its fancy graph, its math is totally wrong.

 

[Grench]

I'm going to declare victory of SD over microSD in this debate and cease replying to him.

The winning vote - summarizing categories - is that people WANT at least two SD slots in the device - and don't care much whether it has microSD in addition to those or not.

If Grench said it, it's official. You can just add up the number of votes in each category to tell you the most preferred configuration.


Folks, the results are in and at this time we show for the internal storage category:


57 for microSDXC


32 for SDXC


28 for NAND


19 for no internal media


So in complete contradiction to Grench's conclusion, we see the people prefer microSD over SD for internal storage even though they prefer SD over microSD. Are they all crazy?


Don't trust what the poll shows in its fancy graph, its math is totally wrong.

And 75% of people demand two full sized external SD ports.


This is a preferences poll - with options that will logically not work in a device. Use it to understand how they trend, yes.


You can say, that if the device is going to have 3 slots, that microSD is preferred as the internal port - but only in scenarios with full sized external SD ports.


Much of the rest of discussion has been around understanding what the use scenario is that one internal microSD and two exposed SD slots can handle that can not be equally done on a machine with one internal SDXC slot and one external SDXC slot.


So, instead of attacking -me-, could you please help me explain what the usage scenario is that makes you require a 3 slot machine?

 

[bismuthdrummer]

And 75% of people demand two full sized external SD ports.

Totally wrong, you don't understand statistics.


There's no way to tell from your poll who ONLY posted for 2 full size external SD. That's the only way you can even possibly conclude they "demand" it, otherwise they logically may have chosen an option without 2 full size external SD as acceptable. Which would imply they don't "demand" it.


The users who voted for options 7, 9, and 11 may all have been totally different people, meaning that you could sum them up and get 28 users out of 56 at this time, 50% of voters who find less than 2 external SD acceptable. Your poll would better if people had just voted for "the most acceptable option", but even still that wouldn't mean they "demand" one aspect of what they chose.

You can say, that if the device is going to have 3 slots, that microSD is preferred as the internal port - but only in scenarios with full sized external SD ports.

And your poll presents all possible configurations? I think not. You can't generalize on the scenarios because there may be acceptable configurations that go against that criteria but are acceptable.

Much of the rest of discussion has been around understanding what the use scenario is that one internal microSD and two exposed SD slots can handle that can not be equally done on a machine with one internal SDXC slot and one external SDXC slot.


So, instead of attacking -me-, could you please help me explain what the usage scenario is that makes you require a 3 slot machine?

Done. (a bit of a while ago, actually...)

 

[diligentcircle]

Jesus Christ, Grench, how can you not understand this?


Guess what: I voted for 2 SD + 1 internal MicroSD. Assuming that, therefore, I care more about the SD is bullshit. My second choice would actually be 1 SD + 1 MicroSD + 1 internal MicroSD, and my third choice would be 2 MicroSD + 1 internal MicroSD.


Stop using your biased assumptions already as if they're arguments, will ya? You're a fucking joke right now.

 

[slaeshjag]

I'm starting to think the storage media will be the least of our worries. Craigix said on IRC that the screen will be capacitive, for example.

 

[Null]

Craigix said on IRC that the screen will be capacitive, for example.

Could you post his comment here for us non-IRCians, would be much appreciated.

 

[Exophase]

I'm starting to think the storage media will be the least of our worries. Craigix said on IRC that the screen will be capacitive, for example.

Doesn't surprise me. I know resistive multi-touch is brought up a lot here but that doesn't necessarily make it practical for Pandora 2. And multi-touch is going to be important if they're serious about Android support. Although I still think a Pandora 1 like clamshell design will degrade that, if they're sticking with one.

 

[slaeshjag]

03:30:36| < ixix> the Pandora2 will be a mix of metal, plastic and glass

03:30:44| < slaeshjag> glass D:

03:31:02| < slaeshjag> sounds too much like capacitive touch screen to me

03:31:17| < ixix> have you tried the one on the Note?

03:31:28| < ixix> it's better than the Pandora one.

....

03:33:04| < slaeshjag> And uh... I assume the P2 won't be a clamshell?

03:33:18| < ixix> it is a clamshell

03:33:34| < ixix> it's instantly recognisable as a pandora, just more modern

No idea of how that's going to work.

 

[Null]

03:30:36| < ixix> the Pandora2 will be a mix of metal, plastic and glass

03:30:44| < slaeshjag> glass D:

03:31:02| < slaeshjag> sounds too much like capacitive touch screen to me

03:31:17| < ixix> have you tried the one on the Note?

03:31:28| < ixix> it's better than the Pandora one.

....

03:33:04| < slaeshjag> And uh... I assume the P2 won't be a clamshell?

03:33:18| < ixix> it is a clamshell

03:33:34| < ixix> it's instantly recognisable as a pandora, just more modern

Thanks very much.

 

[Binky]

03:31:17|

< ixix> have you tried the one on the Note?

This is the important bit.


Capacitive touchscreens with posh touch sensing designed for styli are approximately as good as resistive ones

 

[Grench]

So, instead of attacking -me-, could you please help me explain what the usage scenario is that makes you require a 3 slot machine?

Done. (a bit of a while ago, actually...)

The referenced post has one paragraph of actual on-topic information.

And I'm not willing to give up an external facing port just to make an SD internal, I'm perfectly happy with microSD. In fact, I think the performance of microSD is such that I would never use the full-size SD capabilities that we'll assume for argument's sake you're correct about. Since I don't see a difference, might as well make it a smaller size. I don't need a large or fast system card, and probably most users that posted for the configuration think the same way.

You state that you're happy with microSD, even if it is slower.


You state that you would never use the full-size SD capabilities.


Therefore, if your needs are satisfied, everyone else's no longer matter.


You state you need X - but you don't actually give an idea of what actions or usage you're doing that require X. Just that you need it. Can you help explain WHY?

 

[bismuthdrummer]

Therefore, if your needs are satisfied, everyone else's no longer matter.


You state you need X - but you don't actually give an idea of what actions or usage you're doing that require X. Just that you need it. Can you help explain WHY?

Now you change my answers instead of my questions. I never said that or implied it. Do you wear glasses with random words pasted all over them??


Your analysis objectively sucks and you keep changing what I say.


You expect anyone to have a serious debate with you..?

 

[Grench]

Therefore, if your needs are satisfied, everyone else's no longer matter.


You state you need X - but you don't actually give an idea of what actions or usage you're doing that require X. Just that you need it. Can you help explain WHY?

Now you change my answers instead of my questions. I never said that or implied it. Do you wear glasses with random words pasted all over them??


Your analysis objectively sucks and you keep changing what I say.


You expect anyone to have a serious debate with you..?

I did not change a single word you said.


Do you deny this statement?

I don't need a large or fast system card, and probably most users that posted for the configuration think the same way.

YOU don't need the device to have a fast system card.


THEREFORE you think that, "probably most users that posted for the configuration think the same way."


So as long as it is fast enough to meet your needs, and supposedly those just like you, that should be adequate for us all. Is that correct?


Then could you please define what those needs actually are? What is your usage scenario that you are using to make that statement?

 

[Binky]

We need a poll asking:


Which of the following is most important to you (tick any that apply):

• The P2 should be able to read full-size SDXC cards (for convenience of swapping, compatibility with cameras etc)
  
• The P2 should be small
  
• the boot media being high performance/capacity
  
• all media being high performance/capacity
  
• the boot media being prevented from accidental eject
  

 

[bismuthdrummer]

I did not change a single word you said.


Do you deny this statement?

I don't need a large or fast system card, and probably most users that posted for the configuration think the same way.

Therefore, if your needs are satisfied, everyone else's no longer matter.

SPOILER ALERT! DON'T LOOK YET IF YOU HAVEN'T FINISHED THE GAME!!!1!!

Spoiler

 

[Grench]

We need a poll asking:


Which of the following is most important to you (tick any that apply):

• The P2 should be able to read full-size SDXC cards (for convenience of swapping, compatibility with cameras etc)
  
• The P2 should be small
  
• the boot media being high performance/capacity
  
• all media being high performance/capacity
  
• the boot media being prevented from accidental eject
  

I'm not sure why anyone wouldn't want any of those things. I thought I'd found the magic combination to have all of it - but I'm being fought tooth and nail over it.


You're welcome to make your own poll though - I'd vote in it.

I did not change a single word you said.


Do you deny this statement?

I don't need a large or fast system card, and probably most users that posted for the configuration think the same way.

Therefore, if your needs are satisfied, everyone else's no longer matter.

SPOILER ALERT! DON'T LOOK YET IF YOU HAVEN'T FINISHED THE GAME!!!1!!

Spoiler

I rolled a 20. It's dead.

 

[jasay]

Much of the rest of discussion has been around understanding what the use scenario is that one internal microSD and two exposed SD slots can handle that can not be equally done on a machine with one internal SDXC slot and one external SDXC slot.

I recently had an experience where the ability to read from two external cards that didn't have any of the OS stuff on them was very handy. My brother had a surprise wedding while we were visiting for other reasons. I was able to transfer pictures back and forth from the two main cameras that happened to be there (one from each family) so we all had a complete record of the event. Since it was a surprise no one had brought a computer and I didn't have enough space on my pandora cards to play the transfer from camera card 1 to pandora, swap cards, transfer to card 2, delete from pandora, copy from card 2, swap cards, transfer to card 1 game.


Not claiming this one example is reason to have the same setup for P2, but even when I didn't have a use case in mind, one presented itself.


TL/DR: Anytime you want to transfer data between two non main/OS cards.