And suddenly it works.

[FBnil]

@3XCL4M4t10N That is good news! Sorry to have derailed this thread into a keyboard thread... Good luck!

 

[TrashyMG]

@3XCL4M4t10N That is good news! Sorry to have derailed this thread into a keyboard thread... Good luck!

Yeah impressive that he received one at the exact time as EvilDragon and then posted the same message as EvilDragon's twitter feed...

 

[rygD]

*ahem*

...

If that was about me not paying attention, good call, I edited my post.

If it was about something else, I don't know what it was, but we need to have fun and make things how we like them. Just be careful if you are around things I have modified so you don't cut yourself.


Now, back to the keyboard stuff.

 

[FaeMinx]

^You got it.

Having fun is what it's aaaaall about.
Also, I like upgrading things... and achieving what is supposed to be impossible, especially when it comes as a surprise.

But I am extremely patient... some modifications are a real pain to implement, if you are unprepared for the task.

 

[der_gabe]

So, since this is now devolving into yet another keyboard thread, albeit an after-the-fact one, there is one thing that I've been wondering about for quite some time, especially considering the sometimes fierce debate on the whole best possible One True keyboard layout question:

How hard would it actually be for an interested party to make their own keymat, with all the keys in the places they want? What would that entail? Is there a way people could make their own custom keymats using, say, a 3D printer? Or some other machine or set of tools that's within the reach of the common person?

The keymat needs to be flexible and AFAIK it's made of rubber. I think that makes it unsuitable for 3D printing, but I may be wrong on that count and I've seen on a number of occasions how some people in this forum have amazing insights into all sorts of different technical fields, including manufacturing.

If there was a way for people to make their own keymats, it might go some way to making those who have serious gripes with the finalized layout happier. And even if it's very technically involved, there might still be someone capable and interested in making custom keymats and perhaps selling them to interested Pyra owners. A small after market, independent of the official Pyra distribution channels and based on the - often pretty amazing - community of enthusiasts could grow this way.

EDIT: I apologise if this idea has been discussed before. I did not read all of the keyboard layout discussion threads, because... well, frankly, I have a job and a family... ;-)

 

[Klumpen]

EDIT: I apologise if this idea has been discussed before. I did not read all of the keyboard layout discussion threads, because... well, frankly, I have a job and a family... ;-)

You wouldn't have if you had participated in those threads.

 

[der_gabe]

You wouldn't have if you had participated in those threads.

Yeah, that's what I figured...

 

[WizardStan]

How hard would it actually be for an interested party to make their own keymat, with all the keys in the places they want? What would that entail? Is there a way people could make their own custom keymats using, say, a 3D printer?

EvilDragon says he's going to open source everything, including the case and keymat. I can't think of any reason you wouldn't be able to do something. There's a material called "ninjaflex" used by 3D printers to get a soft, rubbery object. I haven't used it, only seen it, but in theory you could use that to print a blank keyboard, stamp your own letters, cap the tops with nailpolish or something. It wouldn't be nearly as good as the original, but it could be done.
Other alternatives would be cutting out and swapping letters, something some people did with the Pandora.
ED may even offer to sell "blank" keymats: they wouldn't have any letters or finished surface but they'd at least be the same material you could work with.
And of course, the ultimate goal, if enough people were interested he might be able to spin up a custom run of keyboard mats.

 

[Faust]

Other alternatives would be cutting out and swapping letters, something some people did with the Pandora..

Do you know if there is any known issue with cutting out and swapping letters?
Does the plastic tear apart or is it sturdy enough?

 

[Klumpen]

And of course, the ultimate goal, if enough people were interested he might be able to spin up a custom run of keyboard mats.

Localized keyboard mats would be really sweet.

 

[rygD]

Localized keyboard mats would be really sweet.

Yeah, but it seems the vocal active people here don't seem too interested in it. I assumed that meant all the keyboard threads were worth it.

 

[der_gabe]

EvilDragon says he's going to open source everything, including the case and keymat.

I knew that. It's one of the many things I really like about this project and why I even asked in the first place. I suppose people could make their own custom keymats without official 3D model files, but it would be way harder...

There's a material called "ninjaflex" used by 3D printers to get a soft, rubbery object.

Awesome, I didn't even know such rubbery filaments were a thing. I looked it up now and yeah... looks promising! Pretty cool, thanks for the tip!

Your comment's also a really good example of what I meant about this community having so many people with all sorts of interesting technical insights in it.

 

[Neelix]

Do you know if there is any known issue with cutting out and swapping letters?
Does the plastic tear apart or is it sturdy enough?

I don't think anyone but ED has had access to the keymat material yet, and I doubt he's tried cutting one up yet.
That said I can think of two possible issues with the cut and swap method. The first is that when you move a letter you are also (apparently) moving the secondary symbol associated with that letter, as the method gives no way of separating them. The second is that it may have unpredictable effects on the backlighting which relies on dispersion of light from points between the keys through the keymat material.

Of course if these issues are not important to you then there isn't really a problem.

-Neelix

 

[Drake51]

Since I am happy with the standard layout, I can't judge my own opinion, but would a key plate, like on some office phones that say what the key actually does, be an acceptable solution?

 

[Grench]

I believe the keymat material is also conductive - I'm not sure whether the above mentioned 3d printable flexible compound is or not.

Everyone thinks they can do a 'better design'. That is a major reason why the keyboard threads were so lengthy. What we have, though, is VERY good. You/someone may or may not agree with that statement. However, everything on it - and where it is on it - was thought out and fought out in excruciating detail. What you/someone might see as a flaw will most likely have a very direct and intended use/effect/capability. It is also a balance between function, aesthetics, multilingual capabilities, gaming and office-type uses.

If you want to gripe about it, open up a thread specifically to, "Keyboard Gripes and Explanations" in /General and we can all go through it again. Just keep in mind that at this point the only way there could/would be any changes to the production keymat is if someone can find a catastrophic flaw in the current one - which has been thoroughly vetted already in the prior process.

There are/were reasons for everything on the current layout. The end result is from a long and boisterous collaboration and debate. In the end it is much better for more people than any of us came up with independently.
[doublepost=1457626519,1457626369][/doublepost]

Since I am happy with the standard layout, I can't judge my own opinion, but would a key plate, like on some office phones that say what the key actually does, be an acceptable solution?

IMHO, all of the keys are labeled very well EXCEPT right/left click mouse which uses the nub-presses reversed left/right to normal mouse buttons. Sounds confusing, but it makes perfect sense if you give it proper thought.

What did you have in mind that would/should be printed on this key plate?

 

[TrashyMG]

I believe the keymat material is also conductive - I'm not sure whether the above mentioned 3d printable flexible compound is or not.

well only the bottom of the keypads are conductive with some special rubbery conductive material that is added or glued to the keymat, not the entire keymat is conductive. with ninja-flex some kind a similar solution would need to be done.

 

[oskda]

Yes: Where is the Yen, Euro, Pound key? (let's start a keyboard discussion....). Why isn't there a ñ ?

That is a closed question: they have decided to use a VERY GERMANIC KEYBOARAD, instead of using a more INTERNATIONAl and NEUTRAL keyboard. And I think this can hurt some Pyra sales and market, as some people would see a GERMANIC keyborad for Germans, not something international.

In my mother tongue we use á, é, í, ó, ú, ü, ñ... but we introduce all them (except ñ) with a combination: we first introduce dead key simbol ( for example ¨ ) and then letter (for example u, so we obtain ü). In this way we can introduce lots of combinations, only with some punctuation keys.

Normally I use US International Layout (I like US keyboard because it is more ergonomic than European keyboards). With that US INTERNATIONAL layout I can introduce all symbols (or near all) from western languages. And then you can use dead keys or "Alt GR" key. With that keyboard we can introduce ALL those letters with symbols with total easy: for example á ä à ã baáäåé, even ß ð œ æ , etc, etc) and this is a standard (even with this keyboard I can compose ñ as ~+n (or type AltGR+n). For me this is the correct way: it is international, it is neutral, it doesn't frighten no one. But in Pyra they gave decided to use a keyboard overloades with GERMANIC letters (I don't know why Geramns can't compose those letters with dead keys like some other European Westerns do; In my mother language we use lots of those symbols and we introduce them with dead keys without any problem). And I think that layout/symbols would frighten some people: even, although I don't get frighten, it is very unpleasant for me. It is one of the worst Pyra aspects for me.

This is yet decided and Pyra will have Germanic keyboard.

 

[slaeshjag]

This was answered a billion times in the keyboard layout wars.

Composing them is how it was done on the pandora. It was way too slow to be usable in regular typing, the characters are used too often for that.

 

[oskda]

The current keyboard layout is suitable for English, German and French use

I think that a US International Layout would be the best solution as it is a STANDARD and you can use it for all (or very near all) western languages (of course with latin alphabet base), not only 3 of them.

Even I think that a lot of English speaking people would look a keyboard with those symbols with frighten, while an US International keyboard doesn't frighten and it can introduce even more symbols, is more versatile and more international.

 

[TrashyMG]

@oskda well time travel aside, the best solution is just to live with the current solution, most of us here are sick of the Keyboard layout arguments in the past. The current layout was selected by this community.