An observation concerning bias


overgauss

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Oct 5, 2009
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So I was reading a little on how a forum member was getting heat for using CAPS to express herself.  I thought how ridiculous is that!  Really? CAPS?!  Then I thought back to the first time I came across this bias on these boards. 

I noticed a signature that one might call garish.  It stood out and annoyed me.  I then became annonyed with myself for being annoyed in the first place!  How dare I judge another person that expresses themselve in this fashion.  I remembered having that same "judgy" feeling when I came across users on other boards that always seemed to want to draw attention to themselve by posting in some non default colour. They always seemed to have some hippy name like Moonbeam, or Wayfarer.  Then I realized that I didn't have a problem with the DATA that was being presented.  The fault lay instead with my brain, and the fact that my own intelligence was not fluid enough to appreciate different and sometimes novel data types.

I took note that just the mere choice of colour meant I was prone to disregard whatever they said, although without the additional colour the post might have had supreme merit and insight.  I  decided to remove myself of this bias (and many others), and learn to appreciate the actual data itself regardless of what ever form it took.

So now for instance, it amuses me that people call my sig attention whoring, and that now there is this whole "sig purist" movement.  Heck there's even a caps limit, screenshot limit, etc etc.   Which I'm sure is for good reason.  To me these things, like my sig, are a test of bias. If the form of the post doesn't meet "community" standards then it is often disregarded.  Guidelines are useful, surely, but abject conformity takes the soul, or spirit out of the thing.

Hating on someone merely because of how they choose to express themselves is really about as low, and closed minded as one can be.  As it turns this particular bias is known as notational bias. Below is a social bias that you will find in my sig. As you can see, it can be both good and bad.


notationalbias.jpg
 
I wear rabbits, thus I'm not biased! (or maybe a little? :D )
 
The same and worse has been said about me.  Who am I to judge? I've been called an idiot and a "fuqqing" idiot by the mods before so take what I say with a grain of salt. Although caps and what you think of her are two separate issues, I can see how one can excacerbate the other.  I think what I'm trying to say is don't attribute to malice what can more easily be attributed to ignorance.  Be it social or otherwise.

I wear rabbits, thus I'm not biased! (or maybe a little? :D )
I'm biased too.  I'm certainly not trying to be holier than thou.  I just try to eradicate as much of the harmful biases I find in myself as much as possible.  For instance I'm biased towards likeing you because you wear rabbits, admit to maybe a little bias, and have a nice smile about you.
 
If someone has a right to express themselves, then why does someone else not have the right to express themselves by saying they don't like that expression?

And just because we express ourselves doesn't mean it's a good thing or acceptable.

And if we express ourselves and the majority of the people we come across dislike it, wouldn't it be a kindness to change so as to not offend the majority?

Why are our rights to express ourselves more important than others rights to not have to see or hear that expression

There's always two sides to things, sometimes three sides or more.  To bad we live in a world where everyone thinks they can do what they want and others be damned.
 
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Formatting of text is part of the information it supplies.

Pentile screens are a really bad idea (imo)
 
PENTILE SCREENS ARE A REALLY bad idea  ( IMO) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The latter tells you that:

  1. I  don't know how to express myself forcefully
  2. I feel strongly about the topic

Just as it is the responsibility of the author to say what they mean, it is their responsibility to format it to reflect the impression it is intended to give. If that impression is one of aggression and anger, that people are justified in objecting to it.
 
So I was reading a little on how a forum member was getting heat for using CAPS to express herself.  I thought how ridiculous is that!  Really? CAPS?!  Then I thought back to the first time I came across this bias on these boards.
Not here.
Everywhere on the entire internet, and before that.. BBSes. And whiteboards. And every texgt medium including books.

All Caps is to raise attention, to highlight; if used overmuch, it is shouting.

It always has been, in written mediua. Everywhere.

If someone wants to wear purple and green hair and have piercings, awesome, they can do whatever they want and have fun (thats me, btw, from years ago ;) -- but if someone is going to write it all caps.. they can do that too; just don't expect everyone to take them seriously too.

People have the right to do and say what they want; but if you come in and kick sand in peopels faces, those peopel have the right to ignore you, too, right? You get what you pay for :) If you're an ass, expect to be treated like one. If you're doign somethign you think is new, but its traditionally understood to be ass, well, you're going to be treated like an ass. Walk like a duck, talk like a duck.. you're a duck.

I'm not talking about certain people, just replying to the line above.

Its like blink tags .. they were universally hated.

ALL CAPS IS SHOUTING.

If you dont' like it.. fine, but argue with _the entire internet, books, bbses_ .. 40 _years of history at least_ :)

jeff

In my BBS, we even had 'b1ff' mode, which would turn a post to all uppercase, change i to 1, and put !!!111 after half the words. That was just one step more than all caps shouting.
 
Overgauss could try to tell me the one-word secret to unlocking my latent jedi mind powers and I wouldn't listen to him simply because of my perception of what he is.

Bias?  Hellz yeah.
 
If someone has a right to express themselves, then why does someone else not have the right to express themselves by saying they don't like that expression?

And just because we express ourselves doesn't mean it's a good thing or acceptable.

And if we express ourselves and the majority of the people we come across dislike it, wouldn't it be a kindness to change so as to not offend the majority?

Why are our rights to express ourselves more important than others rights to not have to see or hear that expression

There's always two sides to things, sometimes three sides or more.  To bad we live in a world where everyone thinks they can do what they want and others be damned.
Well,

I'll note that the American Constituion protects Freedom Of Speech.

By definition, it is unpopular speech that is protected; popular speech needs no protection.

I'll also note that, in America...you have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

You do not have the "right" to not be offended.

Now, while I know this is an International Forum..I'm well aware of how everyone else here cherishes THEIR right to free speech...to say what they wish...but far to often, disregard other people's same right.  and I know of no country on earth...where one possesses the right to not be offended.

And chastising someone for over-use of caps...as a means of expressing something...is trampling on that person's rights.  If you don't like what you see, ignore it...don't read it, move on.

Remmeber what our mothers taught us??  If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all!!  Why is this so hard for some people?

Oh, and Overgauss - I salute you...and anyone else who tries to overcome biases.

Bias and prejudice are learned behaviors.  The beauty of that is that they also can be unlearned.

However, far too many people seem way to confortable holding onto their biases, prejudice, and hate.

Sad.  This life is too short for that shit, if you ask me.

If you feel like saying something nasty...why not just say it aloud, to yourself...chuckle over your "cleverness" and then not type it and hurt another person's feelings.

Most people do not like their feelings hurt...but do not seem to have a problem hurting other people's feelings.  Especially when they think they are really "clever."  Well, for you "clever" folks out there...your moment of cleverness...may have badly hurt someone else''s feelings...so now, how good do you feel about yourself?  How "clever" do you feel now?

Think about it.  And think before you press the POST button.
 
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I'm confused op is mad about people being biased ? Or because people have a certain perception of a person? I feel some people on this particular board (boards?) take things offensively too easily and treats everything they do not agree with as a personal attack.

Also the whole caps things deals with how most people view text and how the brain processes it, and how as most cultures use it to show important or legal information like a stop sign is written like this "STOP" instead of this "stop". Just sayin'

On a sidenote I never realized you can type in different colors on this board. Thanks for pointing that out for me.
 
I would point out that in the context of a moderated forum (any moderated forum, not just this one) there is no "right to free speech"    You have a right to contribute constructively.  Otherwise you have the right to publish your thoughts somewhere else and exercise your right to free speech there. (eg  in a personal blog where you can say anything you like)

- Neelix
 
And chastising someone for over-use of caps...as a means of expressing something...is trampling on that person's rights.  If you don't like what you see, ignore it...don't read it, move on.

Remmeber what our mothers taught us??  If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all!!  Why is this so hard for some people?
I'm glad you remember now what your mother taught you, even if you were unable to previously. I'd say that the most useful quality on the internet is to be able and willing to practice what you preach - a skill you've yet to learn.
D.
 
There's free speech, and there's being polite.

There are loads of things I have the right to do, but don't because its offensive and antisocial.

People do, and always will use the way you speak or format your forum posts to suplement what you are saying; you may have the right to DO THIS but its bad form in the same way that slamming your fist on the counter and shouting at the cashier that you'd like to pay with cash is.

It would not be unreasonable to assume that someone who did that was angry and unstable - the shop would probably ask them to calm down or leave.

Same with forums on t'internetz.
 
It took thousands of years for the development of languages and how to read and write, punctuation, expression etc

In all the time do you not think that they created a set of rules for a reason so that it makes sense and is easy to read?

It had been proven that large chunks of text in caps is harder to read because of the way our brain processes it.

It is also widely known that caps is used highlight or express importance on a word. But it should only be used on words that need to be highlighted.

NO point IN expressing WORDS that DONT need IT all it suggests is that

1) I don't grasp the concept of writing clearly

or 2) I don't think people understands some words while they are not capitalised.
 
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Can't we just let this go?

Overgauss, I understand and appreciate your intention when you started this thread but we're just getting into the same discussion again.

I like Kumaki and ZXDunny both and the only result of this thread going on is that people are going to get upset again. No one is going to change his/her opinion and they are not going to kiss and make up.

If we can get them to co exist on the forum for a bit without getting into each others way this will blow over and nobody has to ragequit the community. If we keep putting them in a situation where both feel they have to respond, seeing as neither of them is capable of not responding, we're just going to get more drama.

And we've past the fun bit. It's getting old. We need new drama between other people over another subject so we can all chime in again. :)
 
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I would point out that in the context of a moderated forum (any moderated forum, not just this one) there is no "right to free speech"    You have a right to contribute constructively.  Otherwise you have the right to publish your thoughts somewhere else and exercise your right to free speech there. (eg  in a personal blog where you can say anything you like)

- Neelix
a bit weird to read that right before reading your signature
 
I think there are some misunderstandings here. 

Let's start off with free speech. The right to free speech is something that a citizen has in regards to the state/government. This is a check that needs to be held, since the government (usually) has the monopoly of violence in a nation, and thus we state rights of free speech, rights of assembly, rights to organize in different ways and so on to make sure that the government does not misuse its monopoly. 

Most interactions, however, are not between the citizen and its government. As has been exemplified above, a lot of the things that the government has guaranteed that it will not sanction are not necessarily accepted behaviour in a social setting. You can be ejected from a shop or café for going around and loudly proclaim religious dogma, even though you have the right to freely choose and spread your religion, and there is nothing unlawful in this. An owner of a private institution is not bound to allow most anything at all on his own premises (subject to countrary laws about i.e. discrimination, where applicable). 

Even so, there are quite a lot of things you are allowed to say in many places (usually as long as you behave somewhat properly, i.e. don't scream or bully other people). Some of these things may be heard by other people (often kind of the point) who disagree, or even finds these things to be wrong, stupid, impolite or generally a sign of uncoutness and bad manners. They might even openly comment on this. And - get this - this is also part of the "free speech" thing. Quite often, people invoke the idea of "Free Speech" when someone criticizes them, saying "You're trying to trample my right of free speech". No. The right to free speech and free expression is just that - You are allowed to say what you want to say. It does not follow up with "...and be free of the consequences of doing that". You are free to make a complete ass of yourself, just as others are free to point out that you're making an ass of yourself, and are free to make up their minds on you based on this. Freedom bites both ways.

But, as I said above, there are rights which the government assures you of, and there are social standards and manners that are applicable in particular situations. What is acceptable when hanging out with your mates down the pub may not be acceptable when you're visiting your elderly grandmother. What is par for the course on the stand-up section of a football stadium might be cause for instant ejection from your university lecture hall. This is not a question of "free speech" (except, possibly, the university lecture hall, where we might need a deeper analysis if the university is governmentally financed), but a question of the kind of social environment and standards in these places. So, when it comes to "what can we say and do on the forums", it is not a question of free speech, but a question of how we want the forum interactions to be.

I will try to interpret the moderators positions here, and I hope the other mods jump in and correct me if they feel I'm misrepresenting the general view:

We want the forums to be a place of rational and calm behaviour. We imagine that most people here are grown ups, and that we want a standard of communication that reflects this. We want this place to be accessible to everybody, no matter their religion, gender, sexual orientation, politics or whatever. This means:

* We prefer that people do not spout sexist, racist or homofobic crap on the forums. 

* Due to the inflammatory nature of the subjects, we prefer that people leave politics or religion out of it, more or less. If people manage to keep a calm and rational tone, fine, but if people don't, it is not the place for it here.

* We prefer that people do not do the in hominem thing. Remarking on how people are ugly or stupid or whatever do not have a place here. Note, though, that there is a big difference between "You're stupid" and "That idea is stupid" - Criticizing someones ideas is not the same thing as criticizing the person. Once again, it may be a question of tone  - If a couple of friends joke about each others hairy armpits, so be it, but if someone seems to take offence, it is out.

* We prefer that people have a grown-up way of communicating. That is, doesn't shout, makes an effort to write complete words and complete sentences, doesn't willfully interrupt and disturb other peoples conversations, and so on. Behave in a socially acceptable way.

That last bit might be a problem for someone that is completely new to a social situation - How does one behave here? And the usual way to solve this here is the same as in every social situation: If you behave in a way that is not considered acceptable, you'll be told by the others. If you go into the theatre, talking loudly to your mates, making noises with your candy wrappers and putting your feet up on the backs of the chairs in front of you, you will (to begin with) be told by the people beside you that you're being to loud and need to respect the rest of the audience. If you don't straighten up, some kind of...(my english is failing me here)...uh, steward? Host? Ticket collector? will come to your spaces and inform you in slightly more formal tones that you are being a disturbance and would you please tone it down and check your behaviour. And, if that doesn't help, you will in the end be ejected. Certain behaviour is not accepted in a theatre.

Note that this does not violate your rights to free speech. You are quite free to stand in the square outside the theatre and protest. 

The situation here is quite similar. You may have missed that typing IN CAPITAL LETTERS is considered to be shouting and rather bad form - Well, someone will tell you. Several people will. This is the way you learn the social codes on the net just as in face-to-face situations. If this doesn't help, the stewards - that is, the mods - will bring the more formal note that you are really not behaving in a way that is acceptable in this situation, sir (or madam, as the case might be). If you still don't get it, there will be warning points and posting bans. That is how the desired social codes are enforced, here as in other social situations.

And that doesn't impact your right to free speech, either. We are not your government. ED is not your head of state. 

And what if you think that the standards are strict, prissy, censorious, stupid or, alternatively, far too lenient? Well, you tell us (the mods) in a proper, reasoned way. If we don't agree, we'll tell you. If you think we are in the wrong, you tell ED - After all, he is the one that has appointed us, and he is the one that can un-appoint us if we are taking it in a direction that he doesn't like. It is, in the end, his call. And, conversely, it is our call (the moderators) and EDs call to not accept behaviour of one kind or the other. 

None of this, again, impacts your right to free speech. 
 
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