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Don't be evil!
if you dont have a gun you cant shoot someone with it.
All Americans Are Fat Retards
- Thread starter Viperman5686
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Magus- you know very weel that its impossible to prove guns cause more deaths. But just look at the statistics and apply some common sense.
Gun killings
Uk 310:11000 US
Murders per 1000 of population
UK 0.01:0.04 US
Thats four times more.
Gun killings
Uk 310:11000 US
Murders per 1000 of population
UK 0.01:0.04 US
Thats four times more.
M
Magus 86
Guest
Yeah... because you're only looking at gun-related deaths, and in one country, there aren't any guns for people to kill each other with, but there are still murders there. it has nothing to do with "applying common sense". Yeah, obviously if you have no gun, you can't shoot someone, but that doesn't mean you can't kill somebody with something else. That's like trying to find out which country has worse allergies by comparing a temperate country that actually has flowers and grass and other shit that you can even have an allergic reaction to with another country that's nothing but sand. Obviously more people are going to have allergies(or at least know about their allergies) in the country where there's more of a chance for them to even get the symptoms, but for all you know every single person in the desert country could be allergic to some flower that doesn't even grow where they live... There are more guns in America, so more people are killed by guns. In England, you can't even get the damn guns, so not as many people are going to be shot. But it doesn't mean that more people can't be killed... and even if less people are killed, that doesn't mean that guns cause violence.
We can all agree that killing = violence, right? Well... NO animal on this entire planet can create its own food thru photosynthesis. Only plants can do that. So in order for any animal to get energy, it needs to eat a plant or smaller animal. Well, what do you think happens when something is eaten? Does that plant or smaller animal stay alive? NO. It's digested. It gets broken down so that the animal that ate it can use the energy and nutrients found in the animal/plant that was eaten... Humans are animals. Humans have to eat. Since humans have to eat, humans have to kill, just like all other animals. Therefore, LIFE IS VIOLENCE, like I said before. Violence isn't caused by guns, videogames, television, movies, music, or anything else. Violence is just a part of life. It doesn't matter how the hell something dies because it still died. Guns are just one way in which something can be killed. If someone shoots you, it was that person's fault, not the damn gun's fault. And even if what I just said in this paragraph wasn't true, you still can't rule out the fact that we've been killing each other with knives, swords, spears, bows, arrows, fire, disease, catapaults, and many other things long before guns were ever invented. If you think you can prove me wrong, feel free to do so. But giving me "statistics" which don't even show half of the story and don't prove jack shit other than that Americans kill each other with guns more than most other countries isn't proving me wrong, no matter how much you want to think it is.
We can all agree that killing = violence, right? Well... NO animal on this entire planet can create its own food thru photosynthesis. Only plants can do that. So in order for any animal to get energy, it needs to eat a plant or smaller animal. Well, what do you think happens when something is eaten? Does that plant or smaller animal stay alive? NO. It's digested. It gets broken down so that the animal that ate it can use the energy and nutrients found in the animal/plant that was eaten... Humans are animals. Humans have to eat. Since humans have to eat, humans have to kill, just like all other animals. Therefore, LIFE IS VIOLENCE, like I said before. Violence isn't caused by guns, videogames, television, movies, music, or anything else. Violence is just a part of life. It doesn't matter how the hell something dies because it still died. Guns are just one way in which something can be killed. If someone shoots you, it was that person's fault, not the damn gun's fault. And even if what I just said in this paragraph wasn't true, you still can't rule out the fact that we've been killing each other with knives, swords, spears, bows, arrows, fire, disease, catapaults, and many other things long before guns were ever invented. If you think you can prove me wrong, feel free to do so. But giving me "statistics" which don't even show half of the story and don't prove jack shit other than that Americans kill each other with guns more than most other countries isn't proving me wrong, no matter how much you want to think it is.
M
Magus 86
Guest
Very true... but you can still get a knife and stab someone with it. Or you could get some cyanide and poison someone with it... Or you could pour gasoline on someone, light a match, and burn someone with it... Or you could tie a rope around someone's neck and hang someone with it... or you could stab someone with a sword, spear, fork, or lawn dart. You could kill someone with your fucking bare hands. Does that mean that hands cause violence? OH SHIT, CHOP OFF EVERYBODY'S HANDS!!!!
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Mark
Boris Johnson: Cuddly Conservative
Let's look at this gun issue.
You have a written consitution that tells you that you have the right to bare arms. Now, cod Psychology would tell us that since the consitution is the framework that the US is based on, that owning a gun is the 'American thing to do'. Of course, not everyone will react to it like that, and this alone doesn't cause more deaths.
Now you've got the guns into the people's hands. What do they do? Why, they use them of course. Someone breaks into the home and the gun gets whipped out. But wait, the criminal also has a gun. Surely the sides are equally matched then, just as in the UK where a burglar is more likely to break in with a knife or baseball bat and be met with a golf club? The difference is you then have bullets flying around, and this frightening statistic taken fromthis website:
There's clearly something very wrong here. I'm not suggesting that guns are the causes of all these deaths, but when they are so widely avalible it hardly helps does it?
The homicide and unintentional deaths in America would surely more than half if guns were outlawed and recalled? You don't need guns anymore people. There's no bears or natives to worry about.
You have a written consitution that tells you that you have the right to bare arms. Now, cod Psychology would tell us that since the consitution is the framework that the US is based on, that owning a gun is the 'American thing to do'. Of course, not everyone will react to it like that, and this alone doesn't cause more deaths.
Now you've got the guns into the people's hands. What do they do? Why, they use them of course. Someone breaks into the home and the gun gets whipped out. But wait, the criminal also has a gun. Surely the sides are equally matched then, just as in the UK where a burglar is more likely to break in with a knife or baseball bat and be met with a golf club? The difference is you then have bullets flying around, and this frightening statistic taken fromthis website:
There's clearly something very wrong here. I'm not suggesting that guns are the causes of all these deaths, but when they are so widely avalible it hardly helps does it?
The homicide and unintentional deaths in America would surely more than half if guns were outlawed and recalled? You don't need guns anymore people. There's no bears or natives to worry about.
M
Magus 86
Guest
If guns were outlawed, a lot less unintentional shootings would occur, but the intentional ones would still be there. Like I said before, why would somebody obey a gun law if he's willing to commit murder in the first place, which is also against the law? And anyway, a lot of people hunt. It helps the economy, and it's fun to some of them. And I don't know if you've ever eaten deer meat or not, but it's delicious. Just because people have guns doesn't mean they're going around shooting people with them. People like to shoot at inanimate targets too. And a lot of people simply collect guns also. My friend's grandpa has a collection of Katanas, but he's not running around town in samurai armor, cutting people's heads off with them anymore than he's running around town shooting people with his gun collection. Guns are a problem in the hands of people who are willing to use them to kill other people, not in anybody else's. Nobody who's willing to kill you is gonna decide not to because of a law.
yes, they are a convenient way to kill, and that's why they're used as much as they are. They're convenient, not just because of availability, but also because of ease of use. Just cuz it's less convenient to drive by somebody and stab him with a pitch fork doesn't mean that it can't happen... and what does the fact that you can't drive past someone and do it have to do with anything? you don't need to drive past somebody to kill him.
yes, they are a convenient way to kill, and that's why they're used as much as they are. They're convenient, not just because of availability, but also because of ease of use. Just cuz it's less convenient to drive by somebody and stab him with a pitch fork doesn't mean that it can't happen... and what does the fact that you can't drive past someone and do it have to do with anything? you don't need to drive past somebody to kill him.
Mark
Boris Johnson: Cuddly Conservative
I've never heard of a drive-by poisoning or pitchforking to be honest. Guns are such a convient and satasfying way to kill, no?
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M
Magus 86
Guest
If there was never a desire to kill, guns wouldn't have been invented in the first place. The gun doesn't cause the desire to kill, and neither does any other inanimate object. it's just used as a way of expressing that desire to kill by going thru with it. It's the easiest and most convenient way, so it's the most common. If you somehow got rid of all guns in the world, people would still kill each other; they'd just use different methods... That's my point.
it's just like how everybody says Marijuana is a gateway drug... which is very true, in most cases. If you smoke pot, you're a lot more likely to do other drugs, but the reason you start with pot is because it's the easiest to get a hold of. And if you enjoy your experience with pot, you'd want to experiment with other things as well, but the same exact thing could apply to any other drug. Marijuana is the easiest to get a hold of, so it's the most common first drug. That doesn't mean Marijuana is particularly bad when compared to any other drug.
it's just like how everybody says Marijuana is a gateway drug... which is very true, in most cases. If you smoke pot, you're a lot more likely to do other drugs, but the reason you start with pot is because it's the easiest to get a hold of. And if you enjoy your experience with pot, you'd want to experiment with other things as well, but the same exact thing could apply to any other drug. Marijuana is the easiest to get a hold of, so it's the most common first drug. That doesn't mean Marijuana is particularly bad when compared to any other drug.
Mark
Boris Johnson: Cuddly Conservative
I don't get that point at all. We people in Britain get angry and at times want to kill other people, but we don't have access to a convient way of killing so in most cases we don't. No other method of private killing is as impersonal and as 'clean' as a headshot.
M
Magus 86
Guest
if you decided not to kill someone, then the desire must not have been very strong in the first place. I've said "omg, I'm gonna kill him" about lots of people lots of times, but it was never entirely serious. I do have access to a gun(my dad has a shotgun, but no shells. I'd have to go buy them myself... so I do have access to a gun, it's just not... "immediate," but the gun is still there, as are knives and the other things I mentioned), but I don't go around killing people. And besides, people killed each other long before guns were invented.
that there is reason enough to prohibit gun ownership.
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Klown
Trolling on the Spiderweb
HURRRRRRR.
M
Magus 86
Guest
No it isn't, because another way of preventing the same thing is to educate people on how to not be an idiot when there's a gun around... And it still won't prevent the intentional gun deaths, like I already said.
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loz_the_guru
i cant think of a good custom member title. Sugges
dear isobel, i hope your well, and what youve done is right
oh its been such hell i wish you well, and hope your safe tonight...
But on teh subject of guns:
Tall, jsut like a girafee, you have to climb to find its head
but if theres a glitch, your an osterich, youve got your head in the sand.
And on the subject of magus:
Seriously, its just not that important, why do you feel you have to argue with everyone, even when the original issue isnt contentious, e.g. seabrook crisps. Okay, so some day dont like the "wiggles", but cant we just live and let live? I think you should chill out, shoot up if thats what takes.
To everyone who isnt magus:
Seriously, ive seen it several times and he never shuts up, so just learn to ignore him as far as is possible. WE know hes wrong, he probably knows hes wrong, but cant accept it for some reason. Either that or hes the biggest troll ever. Lets spread the love and live and let live in his case.
oh its been such hell i wish you well, and hope your safe tonight...
But on teh subject of guns:
Tall, jsut like a girafee, you have to climb to find its head
but if theres a glitch, your an osterich, youve got your head in the sand.
And on the subject of magus:
Seriously, its just not that important, why do you feel you have to argue with everyone, even when the original issue isnt contentious, e.g. seabrook crisps. Okay, so some day dont like the "wiggles", but cant we just live and let live? I think you should chill out, shoot up if thats what takes.
To everyone who isnt magus:
Seriously, ive seen it several times and he never shuts up, so just learn to ignore him as far as is possible. WE know hes wrong, he probably knows hes wrong, but cant accept it for some reason. Either that or hes the biggest troll ever. Lets spread the love and live and let live in his case.
Magus86, I live in the U.S. so I think I can say that when I see the evening news reports on someone getting shot on a daily basis I get sick of it.
If you need a gun to feel safe and secure from the "bad guy" you think someday will come into your house and steal your belongings or worse make a sandwich and leave out the window then so be it. I don't agree with you.
People no matter what country they live in are prone to violence. Plain and simple. You just have to keep the tools for them to commit violence away from them. I remember seeing a report on the times in world history when mankind on every continent had a non-war non-conflict time period and I think it came out to about 80 years.
That's 80 years in the entire recorded human history when mankind hadn't been in an armed conflict with his fellow man.
It's unfortunate that TV is such a big part of growing up in the USA as I believe it to be huge reason for violence being so desirable to those who live here. If you check the TV listings we have about 4 different shows for CSI and 5 Law and Orders as an example. You don't have to look long to find a woman being raped or a guy being beat up if you are watching TV in the US.
I don't agree with guns. Plain and simple. If you hunt then use them during hunting season and lock them away(only a small part of the U.S. population actually hunts since in the states we have a Walmart on every street corner so only a small part of the U.S. population should have a gun). The police should only then be the ones who have guns.
Education is a good idea but not everyone has eyes and ears that are open to it so keeping the guns out of people's hands is the sure fire way to keep the people from using them. I mean, we all know that driving too fast on the highway is dangerous and we all have to take a test in the US to get a license and we all see advertisements and reminders to drive safely but there are still some who don't want to listen. See what I mean. Think it out don't just feel because you are simply used to feeling the way you do.
Joe.
P.S. not ALL or MOST Americans are this and that so I wish people would stop the BS categorizing. It does little good to say one type of person is better than another type depending on where their feet are on planet earth, what food they eat for breakfast, or what douche bag was elected as "figurehead" for their country.
If you need a gun to feel safe and secure from the "bad guy" you think someday will come into your house and steal your belongings or worse make a sandwich and leave out the window then so be it. I don't agree with you.
People no matter what country they live in are prone to violence. Plain and simple. You just have to keep the tools for them to commit violence away from them. I remember seeing a report on the times in world history when mankind on every continent had a non-war non-conflict time period and I think it came out to about 80 years.
That's 80 years in the entire recorded human history when mankind hadn't been in an armed conflict with his fellow man.
It's unfortunate that TV is such a big part of growing up in the USA as I believe it to be huge reason for violence being so desirable to those who live here. If you check the TV listings we have about 4 different shows for CSI and 5 Law and Orders as an example. You don't have to look long to find a woman being raped or a guy being beat up if you are watching TV in the US.
I don't agree with guns. Plain and simple. If you hunt then use them during hunting season and lock them away(only a small part of the U.S. population actually hunts since in the states we have a Walmart on every street corner so only a small part of the U.S. population should have a gun). The police should only then be the ones who have guns.
Education is a good idea but not everyone has eyes and ears that are open to it so keeping the guns out of people's hands is the sure fire way to keep the people from using them. I mean, we all know that driving too fast on the highway is dangerous and we all have to take a test in the US to get a license and we all see advertisements and reminders to drive safely but there are still some who don't want to listen. See what I mean. Think it out don't just feel because you are simply used to feeling the way you do.
Joe.
P.S. not ALL or MOST Americans are this and that so I wish people would stop the BS categorizing. It does little good to say one type of person is better than another type depending on where their feet are on planet earth, what food they eat for breakfast, or what douche bag was elected as "figurehead" for their country.
digitaljez
Member
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2005
- Messages
- 210
The U.S. has a high gun murder rate, whereas a country like England with strict gun controls has almost no gun murders and a very low murder rate. Prior to having any gun controls, England already had a murder rate much lower than the United States .
The Swiss with 7 million people have hundreds of thousands of fully-automatic rifles in their homes and the Israelis, until recently, have had easy access to guns. Both countries have low murder rates.
The U.S. has a higher non-gun murder rate than many European country's total murder rates.
This seems to indicate that it is the culture that produces the high number of individuals prepared to kill not the availability of firearms. A nation bred on stories of cowboys and gangsters and that has been taught it's constitutional right to bear arms is almost divine, is going to have a different outlook than a society where the only people with guns are criminals. You have to bear in mind that everyone, to a greater or lesser extent are easily influenced by their enviroment. That is why advertising works. If your culture condones guns then most people will be for them.
Guns have only one purpose, and if you condone guns you implicitly condone what they are used for. If you condone taking another life you do not value life as highly as someone who does not. A society that wants the right to carry a gun will undervalue life and its murder rates will be high.
If an American holds a gun he can imagine he is any one of hundreds of historical or fictional gun totin' heroes. If a European finds himself holding a gun he knows he is in trouble or is on the wrong side of the law.
If America was isolated from the rest of the world it would be fine. They could have their guns and use them on each other to keep the population growth under control. Unfortunately their culture is seeping out into the rest of the world through tv and films and the rot is setting in all over.
Guns are not the cause it is the attitude towards them.
(Anyway, what do you expect if you give guns to a bunch of fat retards ? ) :lol:
The Swiss with 7 million people have hundreds of thousands of fully-automatic rifles in their homes and the Israelis, until recently, have had easy access to guns. Both countries have low murder rates.
The U.S. has a higher non-gun murder rate than many European country's total murder rates.
This seems to indicate that it is the culture that produces the high number of individuals prepared to kill not the availability of firearms. A nation bred on stories of cowboys and gangsters and that has been taught it's constitutional right to bear arms is almost divine, is going to have a different outlook than a society where the only people with guns are criminals. You have to bear in mind that everyone, to a greater or lesser extent are easily influenced by their enviroment. That is why advertising works. If your culture condones guns then most people will be for them.
Guns have only one purpose, and if you condone guns you implicitly condone what they are used for. If you condone taking another life you do not value life as highly as someone who does not. A society that wants the right to carry a gun will undervalue life and its murder rates will be high.
If an American holds a gun he can imagine he is any one of hundreds of historical or fictional gun totin' heroes. If a European finds himself holding a gun he knows he is in trouble or is on the wrong side of the law.
If America was isolated from the rest of the world it would be fine. They could have their guns and use them on each other to keep the population growth under control. Unfortunately their culture is seeping out into the rest of the world through tv and films and the rot is setting in all over.
Guns are not the cause it is the attitude towards them.
(Anyway, what do you expect if you give guns to a bunch of fat retards ? ) :lol:
M
Magus 86
Guest
THANK YOU!
"if you condone guns, you condone taking the lives of other humans."
Not quite... Guns have purposes other than killing other humans.
I never said I need a gun to feel safe. What I said is that taking the guns away from law abiding citizens isn't going to solve anything because other people who don't care about the law will still be able to get them anyway. So while I don't personally feel the need to have a gun in the house, I can understand why some people would. The shotgun in my basment is my Dad's, not mine, and he has it because he used to hunt. It's not loaded, and there are no shells in the house. It's no more deadly than a baseball bat.
Loz, why the hell should I shut up when people are trying to use inanimate objects as scapegoats on which they can blame their problems? You don't believe that videogames make people violent, do you? So why should you think that guns do it? Neither one has control over humans. Nothing else does either. Humans are responsible for their own damn actions.
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Mark
Boris Johnson: Cuddly Conservative
So the gun, as a symbol has no effect on people? When you pick up that gun don't you feel a surge of masculinity, the fact that you're exercising your right as an American to own and shoot anyone that attacks you? Don't you feel that the gun needs to be used? The buzz that you get when a bullet tears through flesh?
There's something about guns that set them apart from any other weapon. They do have a control over people; they are impersonal, don't rely solidly on your actions (as jabbing a knife into a victim at close range does) and are involved in sports.
When you say 'Nothing else (has control over humans)' what exactly do you mean? I'd argue that very little of what we percieve as 'free will' is all that free.
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humans are responsible for their own actions, but having guns around makes it easier to kill.
it's much easier and 'cleaner' to just shoot someone than to knife or club them to death.
taking the guns away from everyone, including good old law-abiding citizens, would really bring down the murder rate here in the US. without guns, criminals won't be able to do things like rob gas stations as easily, and if they were to, they won't be as likely to kill the clerk afterwards. guns just makes it too easy to kill somebody.
sure you can't just blame guns, but in this society it's too big of a problem to ignore.
also, most advocates for guns don't live in high murder rate urban areas, but in the nice, quite suburb areas where the only gunshots that are likely to go off are from a hunter's rifle. most people don't need guns to protect themselves, either, so advocating guns on this alone doesn't make sense.
seriously, it's not hard to see that guns are the problem here in the US.
it's much easier and 'cleaner' to just shoot someone than to knife or club them to death.
taking the guns away from everyone, including good old law-abiding citizens, would really bring down the murder rate here in the US. without guns, criminals won't be able to do things like rob gas stations as easily, and if they were to, they won't be as likely to kill the clerk afterwards. guns just makes it too easy to kill somebody.
sure you can't just blame guns, but in this society it's too big of a problem to ignore.
also, most advocates for guns don't live in high murder rate urban areas, but in the nice, quite suburb areas where the only gunshots that are likely to go off are from a hunter's rifle. most people don't need guns to protect themselves, either, so advocating guns on this alone doesn't make sense.
seriously, it's not hard to see that guns are the problem here in the US.
Viperman5686
Still Fresh
- Joined
- May 26, 2005
- Messages
- 72
America has the most gun related deaths, yes, but I think you all should read this. http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/lott200508190817.asp
I don't think that guns should be banned. They aren't to blame - society is. Firstly, most deaths are related to gangs trying to get a profit (usually from drugs). If a gang wanted to kill someone, they could just get a guy with a baseball bat to whack someone in the head and then finish them with a knife once they're down. All of these gangsters would probably find some other way to kill people with ease, anyway. One such way being the act of smuggling in bullets with drugs, and making your own guns (not that hard to do); or even smuggling in guns as well.
I don't think that guns should be banned. They aren't to blame - society is. Firstly, most deaths are related to gangs trying to get a profit (usually from drugs). If a gang wanted to kill someone, they could just get a guy with a baseball bat to whack someone in the head and then finish them with a knife once they're down. All of these gangsters would probably find some other way to kill people with ease, anyway. One such way being the act of smuggling in bullets with drugs, and making your own guns (not that hard to do); or even smuggling in guns as well.
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