A Stranger In The Fog Knocks On Craig's Door


Awakening said:
God Ginrai said:
I am not saying that a webcam would be a deterrent to getting the Pandora 2. I would still buy one even if it had a webcam. But I have to say that the Pandora does not need to try to compete with the handheld netbook market. If someone wants a netbook, then that is what they should get. The Pandora exists because Craig and Co. decided they wanted to make the gaming handheld that the GP2X should have been. The system was created with gaming as its function, so gaming controls on such a device would never be a gimmick. Also, if you suggest a wired joystick, you take away the most important feature of the Pandora. Mobility.

-God Ginrai
Carrying around a gamepad would be as mobile as carrying around a USB camera :)

A netbook is way bigger then a Pandora, there's little reason why someone interested in a Pandora would get a notebook just for a built in camera. However, a Pandora with a built in camera could potentially interest more people. I would say it's an interesting way to increase market share. The Pandora is already beyond being only a gaming handheld, there are so many around here that want to use it for more then playing games. Bloging and sharing experiences with others online is only increasing in popularity. For a next generation device OP must ask themselves how they can sell even more units.

Yes, there is a webcam in my netbook. I have never used it for anything else than the occasional video chat.
However, when I had my small digital camera in my pocket for a while, I found it VERY useful in taking pictures of things to not forget.
But to carry a camera around just for that... And the netbook hardly leaves the house because of the two hour battery life and the size, and if I had to lug the charger around as well...

I would carry a Pandora, as it DOES fit in my pocket, I can spend pretty much ALL of my waking hours with it running (not that I suggest I would) and if it had a camera as well, that would be very convenient.

It would be very for
120px-High_Capacity_Color_Barcode.png
these and
150px-Wikipedia_mobile_en.png
these as well.
 
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Vlynndar said:
I would carry a Pandora, as it DOES fit in my pocket, I can spend pretty much ALL of my waking hours with it running (not that I suggest I would) and if it had a camera as well, that would be very convenient.

It would be very for
120px-High_Capacity_Color_Barcode.png
these and
150px-Wikipedia_mobile_en.png
these as well.
It would also be useful for normal bar codes too. Software's starting to appear that can price check a product from multiple sources to find the best deal, just from a photograph of the bar code. Great when your out and about.

Although I would have preferred the Pandora just for gaming and audio/video, it's already evolved into more of a portable companion with its biggest selling point being the fact that it's easy/fun to code for, open source and open for experimentation. Even a basic webcam would open up some interesting coding possibilities :)
 
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Awakening said:
God Ginrai said:
I am not saying that a webcam would be a deterrent to getting the Pandora 2. I would still buy one even if it had a webcam. But I have to say that the Pandora does not need to try to compete with the handheld netbook market. If someone wants a netbook, then that is what they should get. The Pandora exists because Craig and Co. decided they wanted to make the gaming handheld that the GP2X should have been. The system was created with gaming as its function, so gaming controls on such a device would never be a gimmick. Also, if you suggest a wired joystick, you take away the most important feature of the Pandora. Mobility.

-God Ginrai
Carrying around a gamepad would be as mobile as carrying around a USB camera :)


Phawx said:
@God Ginrai

Read Awakening's first sentence.

I have never suggested use of a USB camera. I have suggested that if you want a camera get a good one that takes SD cards. What USB camera would take SD cards? Your argument doesn't stand.

-God Ginrai
 
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God Ginrai said:
I have never suggested use of a USB camera. I have suggested that if you want a camera get a good one that takes SD cards. What USB camera would take SD cards? Your argument doesn't stand.

-God Ginrai

The Pandora takes SD cards :p
 
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Vlynndar said:
God Ginrai said:
I have never suggested use of a USB camera. I have suggested that if you want a camera get a good one that takes SD cards. What USB camera would take SD cards? Your argument doesn't stand.

-God Ginrai

The Pandora takes SD cards :p
I think that's his point... ;)
 
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God Ginrai said:
I have never suggested use of a USB camera. I have suggested that if you want a camera get a good one that takes SD cards. What USB camera would take SD cards? Your argument doesn't stand.
-God Ginrai
Are you saying that unpacking my camera (yes I actually have one), taking the SD card out of my Pandora, insert it into my camera, turn the camera on, take a picture, turn the camera off, putting the SD card into my Pandora, packing my camera, finding the image on the SD card and open it is a convenient way of taking a picture? Or are you saying that a regular camera is more mobile then a USB camera?

According to you: "Also, if you suggest a wired joystick, you take away the most important feature of the Pandora. Mobility." That is why I compared it to a USB camera, something to plug directly into the Pandora itself. A USB camera would be just as mobile as a USB gamepad.
 
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Awakening said:
God Ginrai said:
I have never suggested use of a USB camera. I have suggested that if you want a camera get a good one that takes SD cards. What USB camera would take SD cards? Your argument doesn't stand.
-God Ginrai
Are you saying that unpacking my camera (yes I actually have one), taking the SD card out of my Pandora, insert it into my camera, turn the camera on, take a picture, turn the camera off, putting the SD card into my Pandora, packing my camera, finding the image on the SD card and open it is a convenient way of taking a picture? Or are you saying that a regular camera is more mobile then a USB camera?

According to you: "Also, if you suggest a wired joystick, you take away the most important feature of the Pandora. Mobility." That is why I compared it to a USB camera, something to plug directly into the Pandora itself. A USB camera would be just as mobile as a USB gamepad.

Heaven forbid we take the 20 extra seconds to take the camera out our pocket, use it, and put it back. Normally you take many pictures with a camera, and then you take out the SD card later, not one picture at a time. I'm saying that if you want a camera, then just use a real one. Swiss-army knives are cool, but when you try to apply that methodology to everything you own, then that's just a stupid waste. I would much rather carry around a cell phone, Pandora, and a Nikon than carrying around a Pandora with a bad built-in camera, and cell-phone support. (hello SideTalkin')

-God Ginrai
 
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God Ginrai said:
Heaven forbid we take the 20 extra seconds to take the camera out our pocket, use it, and put it back. Normally you take many pictures with a camera, and then you take out the SD card later, not one picture at a time. I'm saying that if you want a camera, then just use a real one. Swiss-army knives are cool, but when you try to apply that methodology to everything you own, then that's just a stupid waste. I would much rather carry around a cell phone, Pandora, and a Nikon than carrying around a Pandora with a bad built-in camera, and cell-phone support. (hello SideTalkin')

-God Ginrai
You have not understood the idea of a camera on the Pandora then. It is all about instantly taking a single picture, either for personal use or to share with others. The idea is not to replace a real camera which you would use for more serious photography.
 
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God Ginrai said:
Swiss-army knives are cool, but when you try to apply that methodology to everything you own, then that's just a stupid waste. I would much rather carry around a cell phone, Pandora, and a Nikon than carrying around a Pandora with a bad built-in camera, and cell-phone support. (hello SideTalkin')
I don't have enough pocket space as it is, and I don't carry any electronics in them yet. I agree that we don't need Swiss-army everything, but why not have only one device with you that does everything you want? What you've described sounds pretty ideal to me.
 
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Awakening said:
God Ginrai said:
Heaven forbid we take the 20 extra seconds to take the camera out our pocket, use it, and put it back. Normally you take many pictures with a camera, and then you take out the SD card later, not one picture at a time. I'm saying that if you want a camera, then just use a real one. Swiss-army knives are cool, but when you try to apply that methodology to everything you own, then that's just a stupid waste. I would much rather carry around a cell phone, Pandora, and a Nikon than carrying around a Pandora with a bad built-in camera, and cell-phone support. (hello SideTalkin')

-God Ginrai
You have not understood the idea of a camera on the Pandora then. It is all about instantly taking a single picture, either for personal use or to share with others. The idea is not to replace a real camera which you would use for more serious photography.

+1 to this and the above comments on augmented reality and barcodes (it's worth noting that some really interesting things, including games, are beginning to appear on that front). Speaking for myself, I feel like one of the key purposes of a UMPC-style device is to assist in capturing relevant information while on the go, and with modern technology, I think it's realistic to expect such a device to cater to the visual and aural senses (sound and vision, simply put), allowing both capture and playback on some level. The Pandora is well-endowed in terms of sound, with both a microphone and playback devices (speakers + audio jack); as for vision, the lack of a compact, convenient way to capture visual data is somewhat frustrating for me.

That said, this probably doesn't matter much if at all to most of the people who want to use the Pandora for old-school gaming, but as one who belongs to the subset of people who wish to use the Pandora as a mobile general computing option as well/instead, it feels like a frustrating, if minor, loss - especially since the internet is such an intensely visual medium these days.

Features like accelerometers and GPS would be nice if they fit, but in terms of capturing useful information in a variety of situations, I don't see an accelerometer as being as useful. I don't know much about GPS systems, but my feeling is that there's so many dedicated options out there that, if you really need a good GPS service for travel, you're probably better off getting a specialized one - but that's probably a matter of much debate, too.

As for cell network services and such, I would really dislike seeing functions tied to what is fundamentally a paid service embedded in what's very close to an open source-style device, and with the way the network services change and upgrade and so forth, it's probably better to just rely on an external cellphone, in my mind, or to use tethering if you want to get the Pandora involved, as has been previously suggested. Hope I'm making sense. :huh:
 
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Mr.Confuzed said:
God Ginrai said:
Swiss-army knives are cool, but when you try to apply that methodology to everything you own, then that's just a stupid waste. I would much rather carry around a cell phone, Pandora, and a Nikon than carrying around a Pandora with a bad built-in camera, and cell-phone support. (hello SideTalkin')
I don't have enough pocket space as it is, and I don't carry any electronics in them yet. I agree that we don't need Swiss-army everything, but why not have only one device with you that does everything you want? What you've described sounds pretty ideal to me.

I would like a pandora with a basic VGA camera on the top of the lid so that it can be flipped to face either you (VOIP applications) or stuff in front of you,
and atleast an EDGE capable cellmodem, BUT i would not pay $400+ for it (and/or sacrifice a bigger device).
So i'm happy that i can get an usb webcam (the pandora has USB HOST, never forget this, its much bigger thing than one would think of actually) if needed,
and that it can tether via BT to my current "cellmodem", the N6630.

In short: what is this mess all about when the pandora has USB, etc?
 
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urjaman said:
Mr.Confuzed said:
God Ginrai said:
Swiss-army knives are cool, but when you try to apply that methodology to everything you own, then that's just a stupid waste. I would much rather carry around a cell phone, Pandora, and a Nikon than carrying around a Pandora with a bad built-in camera, and cell-phone support. (hello SideTalkin')
I don't have enough pocket space as it is, and I don't carry any electronics in them yet. I agree that we don't need Swiss-army everything, but why not have only one device with you that does everything you want? What you've described sounds pretty ideal to me.

I would like a pandora with a basic VGA camera on the top of the lid so that it can be flipped to face either you (VOIP applications) or stuff in front of you,
and atleast an EDGE capable cellmodem, BUT i would not pay $400+ for it (and/or sacrifice a bigger device).
So i'm happy that i can get an usb webcam (the pandora has USB HOST, never forget this, its much bigger thing than one would think of actually) if needed,
and that it can tether via BT to my current "cellmodem", the N6630.

In short: what is this mess all about when the pandora has USB, etc?

If the Pandora did have an outward-facing camera embedded in the lid, as I envision, I know I'd use it enough to really appreceate it in the long run. I'd rather not have to deal with an unweildy USB jack poking out of the Pandora in my pocket while simultaneously managing an awkward USB cam, or have to fill one of my pants pockets with a full-size camera when I don't really care about photo quality and just want to capture whatever's happening in front of me before it's gone, an approach cellphone-style embedded cameras have turned out to be very effective with. That's based on my personal usage habits, anyway. :p

But, hey, that's why I'm going to add one in, so... (I just hope I can rig up something that doesn't have some stupid dangly wire poking outside the case that I need to plug in when I want to use the camera...)
 
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I just realized that there might be room above the speakers for a camera that can be rotated in and out. For those who are interested in video chat. It would be off center but I think that's the best we could get.

I'm a bit surprised that there seems to be more people interested in a camera in a Pandora 2 then a larger screen with a higher (1024x600) resolution. The camera of course makes it possible to use the Pandora in a new way.
 
Awakening said:
I just realized that there might be room above the speakers for a camera that can be rotated in and out. For those who are interested in video chat. It would be off center but I think that's the best we could get.

I'm a bit surprised that there seems to be more people interested in a camera in a Pandora 2 then a larger screen with a higher (1024x600) resolution. The camera of course makes it possible to use the Pandora in a new way.

How would you connect a camera mounted inside the top of the case? I highly doubt there would be enough room to snake the cable through the hinge, there is barely any room in the NDS which has just the LCD cable, a wire for the antenna and a single wire going to a board in the top for the speakers. The Pandora's LCD cable may be thicker because of the foil shielding, and you don't want to put any pressure on it inside the hinge.

Larger screen or resolution might not be better, I haven't heard any glowing reviews of the screens on those devices which have them, as opposed to how good I know the 605's screen is (as in the Pandora) and it's slightly larger (4.8") but higher contrast ratio 800x480 screen in the Archos 5.
 
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fischju2000 said:
How would you connect a camera mounted inside the top of the case? I highly doubt there would be enough room to snake the cable through the hinge, there is barely any room in the NDS which has just the LCD cable, a wire for the antenna and a single wire going to a board in the top for the speakers. The Pandora's LCD cable may be thicker because of the foil shielding, and you don't want to put any pressure on it inside the hinge.
The LCD ribbon is rolled so there should be some space inside to put thin wires through the hole, I suppose.
 
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fischju2000 said:
How would you connect a camera mounted inside the top of the case? I highly doubt there would be enough room to snake the cable through the hinge, there is barely any room in the NDS which has just the LCD cable, a wire for the antenna and a single wire going to a board in the top for the speakers. The Pandora's LCD cable may be thicker because of the foil shielding, and you don't want to put any pressure on it inside the hinge.
The DSi have a camera in the lid IIRC.

fischju2000 said:
Larger screen or resolution might not be better, I haven't heard any glowing reviews of the screens on those devices which have them, as opposed to how good I know the 605's screen is (as in the Pandora) and it's slightly larger (4.8") but higher contrast ratio 800x480 screen in the Archos 5.
When it's time for a Pandora 2 I'm sure there are better screens out there. Like those new ones that can turn off the backlight and become like an e-book reader without the speed issue, they will probably be too expensive though.
 
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The Pixel Qi display does look very nice, but Pandora 2 might want to go AMOLED for quality of picture, sacrificing some battery life. And they will probably be much cheaper.

The DSi was designed with a camera in mind, in fact the cameras are on the same ribbon cable - Not something a modder could easily do.
 
@Awakening

I originally thought of having a larger screen for Pandora 2, but if you look at the videos, a screen can only get wider. I.E. instead of the current 16:9 or 16:10 aspect ratio, it would be more like 2.39:1. Which would then be a custom screen and cost a bunch more. I was thinking that there was more room to grow diagonally with the Pandora, but there really isn't. If OP went to a larger (diagonal) screen we would start sacrificing pocket-ability.

Truthfully, a webcam I wouldn't use for *Pictures*, I would only use it for video chat. But more power to you if you prefer it.

@God Ginrai

I agree with Mr.Confuzed. Also, side-talking was just a bad design decision, Nokia did fix it. Something like a PSPgo(+1 more nub) / Multitouch screen / Cellphone running Android/Maemo 6/Zune/iPhone honestly sounds like the best piece of kit. This particular device would cost well over $600 (probably $300 with contract (Also if a big manufacturer made it) but this would be my ideal handheld.

Until then, my current solution was just to use my phone for browsing / video chat / emergency camera use and my DSi for handheld gaming. So the only thing I am swapping is my DSi with my Pandora and everything still is fine for me. However, one day I would like to only carry one device. My i8910 proves that you can have a small cheap webcam on the front for video-calling and a nice 8mp camera on the back for actually pretty decent day-time pictures + 720p video recording. And that's today. So two/three years down the line, yea, I would prefer to have one device with me rather than 2 devices. I, and others like me, prefer to sacrifice quality for convenience (mobility). Neither of us are wrong.
 
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11677

sku_11677_1.jpg


Clip it to the lid and away you go. Sorted.


EDIT: Or this one: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1330
 
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