A date with the Pyra

[Not_a_Nick]

Guess this is a vicious cycle of comments regarding the Android in Pyra, at the end it's a lot of repetition with no consensual conclusion and that says a lot by itself regarding the subject. B)

 

[bzar]

Guess this is a vicious cycle of comments regarding the Android in Pyra, at the end it's a lot of repetition with no consensual conclusion and that says a lot by itself regarding the subject. B)

Please, share your findings. Don't be so vague.

 

[Grench]

Given that ED has already stated that he's willing to put money into getting Android working, (after the Pyra is released and is selling well) I'm sure we'll end up with a solution that gives us the best of both worlds.  It just won't be available on launch.

-Neelix

Sounds entirely reasonable, from a personal perspective I'm in no rush to have a fully functional version of Android on the Pyra, as long as it comes one day I'll be happy. However I do think that having the option of Android available at launch would prove favourable with reviewers and would therefore help to boost sales.
 

Any reviewer who would grade the device less favorably without Android is not the right person to receive a device to review.  That would be someone who, "doesn't get it".

 

[TeDaDeS]

What would you think a reviewer will say if linux and android are both not working correctly. I think mentioning android is coming and linux is running okay will sound better (and getting linux with 3D is already a challenge for launch).

 

[Not_a_Nick]

What would you think a reviewer will say if linux and android are both not working correctly. I think mentioning android is coming and linux is running okay will sound better (and getting linux with 3D is already a challenge for launch).

The Pyra is and will forever be a work in progress and not a finished product per se. Isn't that the appeal of the thing? Well it is for me. Of course that isn't much marketing friendly, there will always be a misshape somewhere and tweaking to do. And it's a lazy world outside.

 

[ible]

I agree that we have to argue that the Pyra is what you make it, not what others make.  (though there are a lot of community contributions.)  most people have the consumer mentality, not the creator mentality.  we definitely have to make it clear the market is towards the latter.

 

[levi]

Maybe that's a good way to advertise it, but personally I've enjoyed consuming a lot other people's music and other people's games on my Pandora, and I expect similar from my Pyra.

 

[Yoyobuae]

The Pyra is and will forever be a work in progress and not a finished product per se. Isn't that the appeal of the thing? Well it is for me. Of course that isn't much marketing friendly, there will always be a misshape somewhere and tweaking to do. And it's a lazy world outside.

A little tweaking to do is not that bad. The problem is when the amount of tweaking required goes beyond what I'm capable of (or what limited free time allows). :wacko:

 

[bismuthdrummer]

I liken the Android requests on the Pyra to a child begging for his/her treat while the parent struggles to fulfill a basic task.

"Daddy, Daddy! Can I have this Lollipop Daddy?"

"Groceries first, kiddo."

Right after this delicious golden Arch sandwich...

 

[TeDaDeS]

What would you think a reviewer will say if linux and android are both not working correctly. I think mentioning android is coming and linux is running okay will sound better (and getting linux with 3D is already a challenge for launch).

The Pyra is and will forever be a work in progress and not a finished product per se. Isn't that the appeal of the thing? Well it is for me. Of course that isn't much marketing friendly, there will always be a misshape somewhere and tweaking to do. And it's a lazy world outside.

If you want to reach a large public that want to use Android, it should work out-of-the-box.

 

[FaeMinx]

^ Unless Android is pretty much perfect at launch, I think we would rather NOT reach the larger public that use Android.

 

[Yoyobuae]

^ Unless Android is pretty much perfect at launch, I think we would rather NOT reach the larger public that use Android.

If "perfect Android" implicitly requires Google's stuff (Google Play Services, Store, Youtube, Maps, etc) then there might be some problems with including those out of the box:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Play_Services#Concerns

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CyanogenMod#Licensing

So at best Pyra could include an open source Android version and then the user would have to download (ie. pirate) Google's stuff if desired. Kind of like getting an emulator and then having to download some BIOS file separately.

 

[FaeMinx]

^ Unless Android is pretty much perfect at launch, I think we would rather NOT reach the larger public that use Android.

If "perfect Android" implicitly requires Google's stuff (Google Play Services, Store, Youtube, Maps, etc) then there might be some problems with including those out of the box:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Play_Services#Concerns

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CyanogenMod#Licensing

So at best Pyra could include an open source Android version and then the user would have to download (ie. pirate) Google's stuff if desired. Kind of like getting an emulator and then having to download some BIOS file separately.

I personally feel that's how Android should be on the Pyra... in which case it *shouldn't* be advertized as a device that runs Android...

I believe that aiming to appeal to the Android market is folly, at least in an official capacity.

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

Well adding Android later can't do any harm but the Pyra OS should be prioritised. Why? There is a gazillion android gaming consoles and compatible devices and many are cheap to buy. There is no possibility for the Pyra to compete as an android device due to the deluge of android devices.

But I'm not against it at all in a secondary capacity.

It's clearly most important to get the Pyra OS as good as possible at launch and beyond. Personally I would like the Pyra to sell more units than Pandora and at least dip its toe, however briefly in the mainstream - 10,000 units+ - then hopefully ed makes a solid return.

 

[Mr_Loon]

^ Unless Android is pretty much perfect at launch, I think we would rather NOT reach the larger public that use Android.

Who is the 'we' you are talking about here? Are you speaking as an investor or do you mean the wider community?

It's hard to believe anything software / OS wise will be 'pretty much perfect' at launch, think how the Pandora evolved over the years. Good enough is good enough at launch IMHO.

 

^ Unless Android is pretty much perfect at launch, I think we would rather NOT reach the larger public that use Android.

If "perfect Android" implicitly requires Google's stuff (Google Play Services, Store, Youtube, Maps, etc) then there might be some problems with including those out of the box:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Play_Services#Concerns

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CyanogenMod#Licensing

So at best Pyra could include an open source Android version and then the user would have to download (ie. pirate) Google's stuff if desired. Kind of like getting an emulator and then having to download some BIOS file separately.

I personally feel that's how Android should be on the Pyra... in which case it *shouldn't* be advertized as a device that runs Android...

I believe that aiming to appeal to the Android market is folly, at least in an official capacity.

Should it be advertised as a device that runs emulators?


I agree that it would be utter folly to base the success of Pyra on it being an Android based system, however it might give an appreciable sales boost if Android was an option.

@ Yoyobuae : Interesting stuff about the licensing issues, seems to make official support for a 'full' Android experience a bit more difficult.

 

[fusion_power]

Well adding Android later can't do any harm but the Pyra OS should be prioritised.

I guess that's pretty clear. Nobody can expect that the Pyra will run Android right from the beginning or even later. This may come somewhere in the future when the standard OS may work well enough and even this seems to be an hard task  (3D acceleration for example).

 

[Yoyobuae]

@ Yoyobuae : Interesting stuff about the licensing issues, seems to make official support for a 'full' Android experience a bit more difficult.

Yes, more difficult and pricey too. To do it legally, ED would need to get a license from Google:

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jan/23/how-google-controls-androids-open-source

Of course, open source Android alternatives which don't include Google's stuff are quite probable. The user will need to get Google's stuff from elsewhere, and would be infringing copyright by doing so.

The sad part is that the huge software library of Android may depend on services provided by Google's stuff. So it's likely that many (most?) apps won't work without Google's stuff.

 

[Silent-Hunter]

There is always F-Droid.
 

Also, that article says it's fine for individuals to obtain and install Google's apps themselves.

"For consumers, meanwhile, all Google mobile services are free to use, and individuals can also legally download and install the full suite of apps to their own device."

 

[FaeMinx]

By 'we' I was putting foreward my opinion as a member of the community on behalf of the project as a whole.

I feel the negetive backlash from reviewers and lazy self-centered Android consumers would be a big blow to the project if they somehow got the idea the Pyra was 'supposed to' run Android.

... and Android turned out to be less idiot proof and more demanding of the user than their last generation throwaway phone...

If the Pyra is advertised as 'running Android'... you WILL get reviews comparing it to other Android consoles... 'we' don't want that, not unless the comparison is favorable.

Don't give them that expectation!

I am not at all against Android on Pyra, I think it would be fantastic for users to have that option... but it must be regarded as an added perk... something over and above what the Pyra is advertised as... so that the response from reviewers might instead be:

... "and if a full desktop Debian experience doesn't completely satisy, well guess what? You can also run a large majority of your Android apps on the Pyra as well... "

 

[Tanasinn]

Question for ED, or really anyone [there was a mention of it in a thread back when I was a mere lurker]. Is the possibility of custom designs on the lid of the pyra still on the table? And if not, is there a way to obtain an extra shell at launch to make custom moldings out of?