You emailed me an expired/used voucher code.

[triblelife]

can I have some discounts in the shop, too?

i do not want any discount, i just simply hope that The Pyra will come soon.

 

[Xcl4m4t10n]

 

[rSl]

i too really can't see any wrongdoing here, just technical glitches (email, vouchers, banksters?), so please flapjack relax a bit and stop calling ed names.
it was a downpayment and ed allready pays half of the shipping costs, so please be a happy customer again!

 

[FlapJack]

Errm. Nope. I'm just posting what has happened. Nothing more, nothing less.



I'm not sure what one of my moderators admitted here, as I can't see any moderator posting here at this thread.
Besides, none of the moderators have any access to the shop, to the payment providers nor anything else, so not sure what he admitted, but feel free to post this here.

But please let me know how I should've handled it?
You can ask any other preorderers here:

• The shop sends out automatic voucher codes and an order confirmation. Sometimes the voucher doesn't get send out (if the payment was delayed), but the order confirmation is ALWAYS being sent.
• I also sent an email to ALL GPD Win preorderers when the device was in stock, including a link to complete the order. I also mentioned that one should contact me if he didn't receive the voucher earlier

Well, the emails never arrived in you mailbox. However: How should I have known that?

If you want to know why they didn't arrive: Please ask google, as that was the mail address you used.

The email you sent to me later was from a different account (sbcglobal) and was blocked, but once you mentioned that here at the shop, I investigated, sent you a PM, got myself removed from sbcglobals blacklist and replied to any email you sent to me since then.

So, how should I have handled this?
How should I have known you didn't receive an email? As soon as I DID know (via the boards here), I immediately reacted. That's all I could do.



Sure, anytime. I don't have anything to hide.
Feel free to point out where I have been lying to you. The only things I can think of was:

• I didn't think the payment provider used openpandora.de as name, but rather OpenPandora GmbH. So I found that weird, but as I never order from myself, I couldn't confirm it. That was my mistake, okay. You can call that lying, but it's not really important anyways and in my opinion "lying" is only possible if done intentionally (and I didn't know that, so I couldn't do it intentionally).
• I accidentally sent you a wrong voucher. That was no lie, that was an accident, and it was fixed within a couple of hours (once I saw your email about that).

So...?



Yes, I treat all my customers the same and try to be as helpful as possible.
That's why I offered to cover half of the shipping costs on my account, which means that the profit on the preorder is nothing.

So you're even getting a better deal than anyone who paid the full shipping costs.

And that's not good enough for you?



Right, I'm not above the law, why should I?

But please let me know where I treated you wrongly?

Here's a quick summary of what happened:

• You preordered a GPD Win and a Pyra in July using a Spam-eMail address and an account which doesn't have your real name or age in it (according to the account, your name is Flap Jack and you're a 9-year-old kid).
• You didn't notice that those 280 EUR are a DOWNPAYMENT for the system and the final price will be 311 EUR. This was clearly written in the product description, and the GPD Win Preorder has a big "PLEASE READ THE DESCRIPTION!" directly behind the products name.
• You didn't receive the emails from the shop, for whatever reason. I cannot check why you didn't receive them, I can only confirm in the logs that they have been sent out (and they have been).
• You didn't try to contact me asking whether it's normal that you didn't receive ANYTHING from the shop.
• You also didn't receive the email from me that the GPD Win is now in stock and can be shipped out.
• You contacted me using a different email address in the shop sometime in December. That was about some payments on your bank account from openpandora.de, even though you never received the item. I replied to it, but the email was blocked by sbcglobal.
• Then you posted the same thing at the boards that you didn't get replies from the shop, so I did contact you using the shops PM system, and also tried to investigate why my previous the email from the shop didn't arrive. I then found out that sbcglobal had me on the blacklist. I asked them to remove me and now I can send emails to you again (as you noticed).
• I also asked you to check with your bank why "openpandora.de" has supposedly deducted money from your account. I checked with my payment provider, and no more money had been requested except for the one in July when you ordered. I CANNOT even request more money, as the only one who has your details (for security reasons) is the payment provider. I don't have your credit card number or anything else. I cannot simply grab money out of your account. Have you asked your bank yet and received a reply?
• I offered you paying half of the shipping costs, so they wouldn't be too high for you, so I sent a voucher for that.
• You asked for your original voucher code, which you didn't receive... well, then some emails were needed since you didn't use your real name and a different email address for the order in the shop, which means I couldn't find your order at first. But once I found it, I sent you the voucher code - however, it was accidentally a wrong one.
• You then told me that the voucher code was wrong and I sent you the correct one.
• Then you started to call me liar, blamed me that I still want money (because you didn't read it was a downpayment), etc.

So, that's it, as far as I remember.
Feel free to correct anything and show me some proof that I'm a liar.
The only issues I can see is that you didn't receive the mails (which I didn't know), that you didn't read the product description, that you used a fake name / different email address to place the order and that I accidentally sent you out a wrong voucher code.

I have NO idea why your bank claims that we supposedly took out money from your account in December. Neither did anything arrive at my account, nothing is logged in the payment logs of my payment provider.
The only one who can tell you where that money went and who requested that payment is your bank. So I advise you to ask them, as I did before.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


No. No, NO. All wrong.

You took a few liberties there...but who cares about the truth? Right?

The funds were taken out of my bank on July 12th of last year. NOT December. How many LIES must you tell before you feel better about this exchange? Why not ban me like before? You gave me false voucher codes. You at least admitted to that, as you did to accusing me of "weird" things because I sent you a statement from my bank, showing that "openpandora.de" was the recipient of said funds...and you said:

> > > That's all weird, especially as you had some openpandora.de
> > > payments on your accounts (and openpandora.de doesn't even do any
> > > business, it's always OpenPandora GmbH on any payment systems).

You found out that Yahoo and Gmail was blocking you. I didn't tell you that, because I never saw your emails. I had to bug you and that took a while....

I am a Pandora - and hopefully a future Pyra - owner. We will see about that later. When I'm singled out as a malcontent or an undesirable, then I get angry. You clicked ALL of those buttons. I don't know what a spam email address is. If it's one that I created just so that I could order products from you and talk on these forums? Then I guess that's a spam email address. I wanted to create an easy one to remember, or so I thought...so I chose 07-07-2007...basically 7-7-7. Seemed innocuous enough. Unfortunately I didn't do the math on that one....although there is NO WAY that I could pass as a 9 year old. That wasn't my intent at all. Anyone here or on any website can attest to that.

I did ask here, on the forums, posting things to you about my order status, but I guess that you never took any of them seriously. I did send you messages and then try to ask Moderators to poke you to respond - it was the typical, slow weekly non-response. I was asking way back in early November when I found out that people here had gotten their GPD Win's. You misled or waylaid me at every turn. Sure, you're busy, but it just seemed that you didn't care. I fell through the cracks. You didn't try to help me. I was just a problem.

You said this here:

"> I'm sure we'll get that sorted out.
>
> BTW: You are the only GPD Win US Preorder left - everyone else paid
> for the shipping costs.
> So while I can't do much about the shipping costs itself, I could
> offer you covering part of them, so that you're actual shipping costs
> would go down to 30 EUR, would that be okay?"

I'll hold you to it. I'll pay 30 EUR and get my GPD Win. Do the right thing. Stop lying.
[doublepost=1484209736,1484209148][/doublepost]OpenPandora GmbH
Geschäftsführer: Michael Mrozek

Schäffbräustr. 11
85049 Ingolstadt
Deutschland
Tel.: 0841 / 990 5548
http://www.openpandora.de/
HRB 4879, Amtsgericht Ingolstadt


ED can't figure out why openpandora.de shows up on my bank statement(s) and accuses me? Hilarious.
[doublepost=1484209882][/doublepost]I'd normally chalk this up to a communication error IF it wasn't so blatant.
[doublepost=1484210921][/doublepost]

@FlapJack: You being fine with me being a Smurf (which I am not) but not faery or alien (which I am) makes complete sense now.

It's amazing the degree to which Perspective determines one's reality.

WHAT? I don't think that you're a smurf or a faery or an alien. I think that you're a human being. A carbon-based life form born on planet Earth. If you hear otherwise or believe otherwise, that's on you. I wish you well on your path to get well.
[doublepost=1484211955][/doublepost]

So let me get this straight:
Flapster paid the preorder downpayment for the Win, 280 EUR, withdrawn and received by the EvilDrags.
All that remains is the final payment bringing to total to 330 EUR.
The Flaps is upset because they paid 280 and now needs to complete the payment of 50EUR, something ED maintains was clearly noted in the documentation at time of purchase.

Sounds like mistakes were made all around but Flappy here doesn't want to pay the price they implicitly agreed to when making the initial purchase. Don't see much malice aforethought from ED. Some communication breakdowns/mistakes, exacerbated by Flaptrons desire to remain anonymous.

You've opened this whole thing up to the court of public opinion and claimed you experience undue harm, which based on what I'm seeing here doesn't really track. I think you're being a little hot under the collar here, Flapmo. My advice; pay the man what you owe him and move on with your life.

All this other stuff seems like histrionics to me. If there is some felonious behaviour from ED nothing you've posted really seems to bear that out.

==============================================================================================

Ahhhh, but there are numerous instances of malfeasance here. ED has managed to admit to three improper business practices within this one purchase. He's liable for much more. He's in trouble.
[doublepost=1484215231][/doublepost]This is a rhetorical question for Michael Mrozek, alias ED "Evil Dragon". How do you treat your customers? Tell them lies? YES. YOU DO. Look at what you said to US this winter and compare your words to what you said LAST winter. They're really similar. How outdated is the Pyra going to be when it FINALLY gets produced this winter? I'm not going to guess the usual jokey date of another 2 Months....psych. I'm actually going to guess this winter of 2017.

I'll give you some credit here, you haven't deleted/banned me yet, so that's a start in the right direction. Maybe your legal counsel has advised you against that tact. Wisely so.

 

[Wally]

As I said before.. Calm down Franko, there's no conspiracy going on against you.

There's many other people here who have ordered products from EvilDragon and they have been delivered.

so WTF?

 

[FlapJack]

I'm calm and I saw you come online - I sent you an email.
[doublepost=1484216127,1484216048][/doublepost]Yeah, they have been delivered. Mine was the ONLY ONE THAT WASN'T.
[doublepost=1484216190][/doublepost]It's like you're not reading/absorbing the facts/info....

 

[Wally]

You're posting a large wall of text and I can't be bothered reading it all nor do I have the time (We need TL;DRs please). I know you're having a rough time but i'm sure it's all a mistake which will iron out eventually

 

[FlapJack]

You're posting a large wall of text and I can't be bothered reading it all nor do I have the time (We need TL;DRs please). I know you're having a rough time but i'm sure it's all a mistake which will iron out eventually

Then if you won't read the facts...actual posts/emails from me and ED, then what can I tell you? Why comment upon it if you have no idea of the situation? Your take is merely peripheral and not necessary. Thanks for the input though.
[doublepost=1484217238,1484216517][/doublepost]@Wally - I will reassure you that I'm not the same guy that I was years ago. I had a health scare 3 years ago...right around when I was at my worst here. I was very lucky to survive. I was off of the forums for 2 years. Anyway, it took me a long time to come back here mentally. I'm not the brash, insane mental case that I seemed/used to be. I needed temperance, I needed wisdom. I want to be with this community....but when I came back, I got the run-around. So I thought that ED was prejudging me because of what little he did tell me.

 

[benoitb]

If I understand you well FlapJack, your goal is to get the device shipped while you have not paid it fully by doing a tantrum ?
It doesn't work that way in EU, here we pay the agreed price for what we want to get.

 

[PowerGod]

@FlapJack : I really hope you have a VERY good SPAM filter on your email...

 

[FlapJack]

If I understand you well FlapJack, your goal is to get the device shipped while you have not paid it fully by doing a tantrum ?
It doesn't work that way in EU, here we pay the agreed price for what we want to get.

What price did you agree upon? Seems that my price keeps going up and he's been withholding info and voucher codes and delivery options. Maybe you haven't fully read what ED has done. Maybe what he's done is totally normal to you. Sad, but it's not normal for most consumers.
[doublepost=1484224365,1484223372][/doublepost]Time is money. I spent almost $800 on July 12th 2016 and haven't seen ANYTHING. Just lies and half-truths spouted by ED. Oh, how I've tried to get to the bottom of what he's doing. ED said this:

"> I'm sure we'll get that sorted out.
>
> BTW: You are the only GPD Win US Preorder left - everyone else paid
> for the shipping costs.
> So while I can't do much about the shipping costs itself, I could
> offer you covering part of them, so that you're actual shipping costs
> would go down to 30 EUR, would that be okay?"

I'll hold you to it. I'll pay 30 EUR and get my GPD Win. Do the right thing. Stop lying. Maybe he will do the right thing. He knows that he will.
[doublepost=1484224448][/doublepost]T I M E I S M O N E Y

 

[Binky]

@FlapJack : I really hope you have a VERY good SPAM filter on your email...

This is a good point. Posting your email address on a public forum is likely to get it onto any number of spam mailing lists.

I'd also suggest that concision, clarity and calmness are a good way to approach this sort of dispute.
Yelling, ranting and posting walls of text never earnt anyone any favours.

 

[FlapJack]

This is a good point. Posting your email address on a public forum is likely to get it onto any number of spam mailing lists.

I'd also suggest that concision, clarity and calmness are a good way to approach this sort of dispute.
Yelling, ranting and posting walls of text never earnt anyone any favours.

Thank you Binky, you're always the voice of reason, but I'm right here. I ordered a product sans shipping and apparently everyone else got one in November but me. It's now the middle of January. So I'm going to voice my opinion about ED's business practices. If you don't like them, then I suggest that you talk to him. I'm not the one that's promising.....oh wait. I'll go to GPD Win. They need to hear this. Thank you.

 

[Pickle]

(according to the account, your name is Flap Jack and you're a 9-year-old kid).

Reading through this thread this appears to be true.

 

[EvilDragon]

You took a few liberties there...but who cares about the truth? Right?

And those are...?

The funds were taken out of my bank on July 12th of last year. NOT December. How many LIES must you tell before you feel better about this exchange?

Now I'm pretty confused.
I remember getting an eMail / post from you in December where you claimed that you preordered a GPD Win and Pyra back in July which has been paid and we've just taken money out of your account for no reason.
You attached a screenshot of your bank account which shows that money has been taken out 07/12/2016 (which is December 7th when using an international date).

I checked that and told you to check with your bank as we definitely didn't take any additional money in December, just when you originally preordered in July.

I never really received an answer from you, so I have no idea whether you checked that or not or whatever.

If 07/12/2016 was July 12th 2016 (and not December 7th 2016), then everything is fine, as that is when you placed your preorders.

But as you never replied to that question, I have absolutely no idea of the outcome here.

Why not ban me like before?

Before? I have no idea we've ever banned you before. But maybe it was a different username or a long time ago, as I certainly don't remember everything that happened during the last years (and certainly not every member).

If you've been banned before, we must've had a good reason, but I don't see any reason yet.

You gave me false voucher codes.

It was one, and it has been corrected within 6 hours. So what's the problem here?

You at least admitted to that, as you did to accusing me of "weird" things because I sent you a statement from my bank, showing that "openpandora.de" was the recipient of said funds...and you said:
> > > That's all weird, especially as you had some openpandora.de
> > > payments on your accounts (and openpandora.de doesn't even do any
> > > business, it's always OpenPandora GmbH on any payment systems).

Yep, and later (either in this or the other thread) I already said that I didn't know they used the domain name for all transactions, so I had assumed it should've been OpenPandora GmbH instead of that.
It was especially fishy as you mentioned we've taken money from your account in December, which we never did.

So yes, I confirmed later already that it seems to be openpandora.de and that I didn't know about that.
Where's the problem?

Do you know everything that appears on my side when you do a wire transfer to me?
You never see that, so you have no idea.

You found out that Yahoo and Gmail was blocking you. I didn't tell you that, because I never saw your emails. I had to bug you and that took a while....

No, and I never said that.
I found out Yahoo was blocking me (I even sent you part of their email as confirmation), but I have no idea about gmail.
I can't check what happened with my mails back then, as I don't have any error logs from July.

When you said here on the boards that you never received a reply from me, I investigated.
Searching for your email address in the logs showed that I received a "failure notice" from Yahoo for that email. Inside the mail (which I even forwarded to you), sbcglobal said that I'm blacklisted on their server. Which is why I requested a delisting and that's it.

Why didn't I notice it before?
Simple: With a shop that has 15000 users and a forum with 20000 registered user, I receive over 200 of such "failure notices" (as email addresses don't exist anymore, etc.) and I guess it's understandable I don't check all of them.
But when someone tells me he didn't receive an email from me, I search explicitely for that email address and that's why I found out about that block.

Now, with gmail, I just guessed I might've been blocked back then.
I cannot check it, as I don't have the error logs from back then.

I've never really used gmail, so I have no idea how they work. I know they got some "intelligent sorting" stuff, so maybe these mails landed in your spam folder.
And then? Maybe spam emails are deleted after 30 days automatically or whatever.
I have no idea. Maybe someone who actively uses gmail can help here?

So, all I can check is that these emails have been sent (as that's what my shop logs).
What I cannot check is whether these emails had been blocked, notified and deleted as spam, etc. Who knows? I don't. You also don't, yet you try to accuse me that the shop never sent out the emails.
Maybe I should accuse you that you received your mails but just pretend you didn't so that you can complain here?
That would be roughly the same, but it doesn't make much sense in my opinion, and I'll never accuse anyone without having any proof for that (unlike you, it seems).

When I'm singled out as a malcontent or an undesirable, then I get angry.

That's all fine, but in this case, you aren't being singled out.
You get the same deal as EVERYONE else - except that you're only paying half of the shipping costs than the others.

I don't know what a spam email address is. If it's one that I created just so that I could order products from you and talk on these forums? Then I guess that's a spam email address.

A spam email address is an email address you don't really use, except for having an email address where you expect a lot of spam.
It's easy to miss some important mails (like voucher codes).

When looking at this posts at the google forums, it seems like you never really planned to use it again:
https://productforums.google.com/fo...-access-and-safety|sort:relevance|spell:false

It doesn't seem like an email address you created to order products or talk on these forums, it seems like an email address you abandoned and rarely check.

BTW: That forum post has the same offensive stance you show here as well.
It seems like if something doesn't work out as you would like to, you get aggressive and abusive.
You probably might want to work on that, as that usually doesn't lead to proper solutions.

Don't think that in case something goes wrong that it is an attack against you. Things can go wrong, and the best thing is to sort them out properly.
That doesn't work if you repeat the same things over and over again even if they have already been replied to.

I wanted to create an easy one to remember, or so I thought...so I chose 07-07-2007...basically 7-7-7. Seemed innocuous enough. Unfortunately I didn't do the math on that one....although there is NO WAY that I could pass as a 9 year old. That wasn't my intent at all. Anyone here or on any website can attest to that.

Well, according to european law, an order from a 9-year-old kid is not even valid. That is the reason you need to enter your birthday on a European shop.
So if I would be following the law closely here, I would need to refund the order, as it is invalid.

I never thought a kid would use a credit card and preorder a Pyra and GPD Win, so I ignored that. But if you want me to closely follow the law, this is what I would have to do.

I did ask here, on the forums, posting things to you about my order status, but I guess that you never took any of them seriously.

I am NOT reading all public threads! I don't really have the time for that!
The first one I saw publically about that was when you mentioned you didn't receive an email from me, December 14th.
That's when I checked with Yahoo and sent you PM (the same day).

A few days later I got delisted from Yahoo.

I did send you messages and then try to ask Moderators to poke you to respond - it was the typical, slow weekly non-response. I was asking way back in early November when I found out that people here had gotten their GPD Win's. You misled or waylaid me at every turn. Sure, you're busy, but it just seemed that you didn't care. I fell through the cracks. You didn't try to help me. I was just a problem.

Well, I still haven't replied to most emails from early December, simply because there was so much work here to do. And I have even older PMs here at the boards, so you're anything but singled out here.

Using the shop contact form gets you a reply within 48 hours (as shop customer issues have high priorities), and I replied to that mail on the same day - but without knowing it would be blocked by Yahoo.
That you didn't receive the reply from the shop was the main reason this all started.

You said this here:

"> I'm sure we'll get that sorted out.
> BTW: You are the only GPD Win US Preorder left - everyone else paid
> for the shipping costs.
> So while I can't do much about the shipping costs itself, I could
> offer you covering part of them, so that you're actual shipping costs
> would go down to 30 EUR, would that be okay?"

I'll hold you to it. I'll pay 30 EUR and get my GPD Win. Do the right thing. Stop lying.

Ah, another "lie"-accusation, even though you clearly post what I've written here:

> So while I can't do much about the shipping costs itself, I could
> offer you covering part of them, so that you're actual shipping costs
> would go down to 30 EUR, would that be okay?"

Shipping costs would go down to 30 EUR. That's no lie. that's a fact. That's what the voucher is for.
However, I never said you will get the GPD Win for 31 EUR less than anyone else now, did I?

Can you give me a reason why YOU as a single person should pay less for the GPD Win than EVERY OTHER single preorderer worldwide?
The price was FIXED by GPD with ALL distributors WORLDWIDE at 330 USD (311 EUR at that time).
That's what EVERYONE paid.

At my shop, I only charged a DOWNPAYMENT of 280 EUR during the preorder, with the NOTICE in the product description that the FINAL payment will be 311 EUR (thus, when finishing the order, 31 EUR are still left to be paid).

ALL other preorders have been charged that, EVERYONE seems to have known about that (as now one complained).

BTW, before you try to accuse me once again as a liar, it's the very same with the Pyra. Check the website here:
https://www.dragonbox.de/en/45-pyra

Please pay attention to:
* The payment for the preorder is a DOWNPAYMENT! The final payment will NOT be necessary before the device is ready to be shipped.

as well as:
* Pyra Standard Edition, 2GB RAM: 500 EUR without VAT (=595 EUR incl. VAT)
* Pyra Standard Edition, 4GB RAM: 529,41 EUR without VAT (=630 EUR incl. VAT)
* Pyra Mobile Edition, 2GB RAM: 600 EUR without VAT (=714 EUR incl. VAT)
* Pyra Mobile Edition, 4GB RAM: 626,05 EUR without VAT (=745 EUR incl. VAT)

later in the text.

It was the VERY same with the GPD Win. 280 EUR was the downpayment, 311 EUR the final payment and it was all written down on the preorder page.

You can ask anyone here who bought a GPD Win. You are not charged more than anyone else. On the contrary: You're paying 30 EUR less shipping costs.

Ahhhh, but there are numerous instances of malfeasance here. ED has managed to admit to three improper business practices within this one purchase. He's liable for much more. He's in trouble.

You keep repeating that, yet you never showed any proof of that.

This is a rhetorical question for Michael Mrozek, alias ED "Evil Dragon". How do you treat your customers?

Honest answer?
I try to help them as good as I can, trying to solve all issues as good as possible, even doing free repairs after warranty period sometimes.
Yes, problems and misunderstandings can happen, but then I'll try to sort them out in a proper way.

However, I behave a bit differently when being shouted at.
What goes around, comes around.
As the question, so the answer.

If you had nicely admitted that you didn't see that those 280 EUR were only a downpayment, I probably would've said "Ah well, I am making a bit of a loss here, but it's not that much, so I'll support you for that".

However, as all you do is accusing me to be a liar (still without any proof), claiming it never was written anywhere that the final price would be 311 EUR.
And no, that's not the type of attitude I support, which is why I'm sticking to my word by paying half of the shipping costs for you but am also sticking to the fact that you preordered it for 311 EUR while only having paid 280 EUR so far.

Tell them lies? YES. YOU DO. Look at what you said to US this winter and compare your words to what you said LAST winter. They're really similar.

Ah, and what does THAT have to do with lies?
Besides the fact that the current status wasn't really similar (we've moved ahead QUITE a lot with everything, which can all be read on the blogs), that's a fact, not a lie.
I was lying if I said everything is finished, we can start now. Which I never did. I always point out what the remaining issues are and I never gave out anything but estimations.
Why? Because we learned from the Pandora that everything that can go wrong WILL go wrong, so it's better to let everyone know the current status, not any certain dates (which you certainly can't keep).

So please let me know what your definition of "lie" is, as it seems it's a lot different from the official definition.

How outdated is the Pyra going to be when it FINALLY gets produced this winter?

The HARDWARE of the Pyra is already outdated for years. There are a lot more recent SoCs out there.
However, like the Pandora, it won't be outdated unless a comparable device is being released.
The GPD Win is comparable in some parts, but it's not as hacker friendly, no real Linux support, no upgradable hardware, no GPS, 4G, etc.

So yes, the hardware in itself is outdated, but that doesn't mean the device itself is outdated or the whole concept.

I'll give you some credit here, you haven't deleted/banned me yet, so that's a start in the right direction. Maybe your legal counsel has advised you against that tact. Wisely so.

I doubt a legal counsel would advise against anything like that
It's a private forum, I can ban anyone I like even without having any reason for that.
Legally, that's totally irrelevant
[doublepost=1484233164,1484233042][/doublepost]

I ordered a product sans shipping and apparently everyone else got one in November but me. It's now the middle of January. So I'm going to voice my opinion about ED's business practices. If you don't like them, then I suggest that you talk to him. I'm not the one that's promising.....oh wait. I'll go to GPD Win. They need to hear this. Thank you.

Everyone else paid the remaining 31 EUR plus shipping costs and therefore received it.
If you had paid the 31 EUR plus HALF the shipping costs, you would've received it as well.

The question is:
Why do think you should pay less than everyone?

 

[mecksg1]

wow just wow.
i have to say every time i asked ED a ? he always gets back to me in week atleast. even thou my ?'s are pyra related, i know hes busy. he been nothing but upfront with us on the whole pyra issue's. on the pre ordering for either the pyra and the gpdwin it says its a down-payment with remainder due before shipping, excluding shipping cost. i read that and know i have about $300 more to pay on my pyra. easy to figure out and pretty clear to see and no one here but you are arguing and blowing this way out of purportion. i understand you think you are in the right but eveything you have posted shows your not. also how is a 9yr old have a credit card. unless your parents are loaded as F**K or you stole it,.(not saying the latter but) really chill out man its just a electronic device.

 

[sm0kew0n]

So if I would be following the law closely here, I would need to refund the order, as it is invalid.

Solved!

 

[Binky]

but I'm right here

You know you're right. I know I'm right. Literally everybody knows they're right.

The trick is remembering that you might not be, and that everyone else's convictions also have reasons, strong or weak, to back them up.
Debating and resolving differences is as much about listening to others' reasons, as it is about broadcasting your opinions.

Not everyone is against you.

 

[Grench]

@EvilDragon
For future reference, US residents will most often represent dates as mm/dd/yyyy. Yes, that is a bit nuts. Since you are servicing international orders with a chunk of them from the US, I recommend that whatever form you are having dates entered into gets broken down into separate fields for year, month, day. It looks like the above date from @FlapJack of 7/12/2016 was meant to be interpreted as July 12, 2016. Since it was sent in text form (not a date field) the interpretation difference could be seen as 'cultural'. IMHO we should adopt ISO 8601 date formatting worldwide and use yyyymmdd (ex: 20160712) formatting and reject mm/dd/yyyy and dd/mm/yyyy for anything.

@FlapJack
You placed an international order to a company in Germany. YOU should be aware that European dates are commonly formatted as dd/mm/yyyy and adjust accordingly OR use an alternate format that makes it CLEAR. ddmonyyyy (12JUL2016) for example or my favorite ISO 8601 20160712.

You placed an order for a 311 EUR device containing a LiPo battery to be shipped to the US for ~60 EUR shipping.
Your expected total SHOULD be 371 EUR +/-.
You paid a 280 EUR down payment.
You should expect to pay 371 - 280 EUR = 91 EUR +/- additional prior to shipment.
ED has given YOU and only YOU a discount of 30 EUR on shipping.
Including this discount, you should expect to pay 91 - 30 EUR = 61 EUR additional prior to shipment.

What price did you agree upon? Seems that my price keeps going up
...
I'll hold you to it. I'll pay 30 EUR and get my GPD Win.

@FlapJack
As far as I can tell through yours and EDs lengthy exchanges:
YOU agreed to pay 311 EUR plus shipping of ~ 61 EUR. YOU have paid 280 EUR. YOU are breaking your agreement. With the discount that YOU and only YOU are getting on shipping, YOU still owe 61 EUR, not 30 EUR.

Hope that helps to clear some of the confusion.

 

[PowerGod]

https://productforums.google.com/fo...-access-and-safety|sort:relevance|spell:false

This is awesome !!