You emailed me an expired/used voucher code.

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FlapJack

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Hello Ed. It's me again. I've fallen through multiple cracks in the intertubes, only to resurface with a question - WHY? What did I do to deserve such treatment? I preordered a GPD Win & a Pyra on July 12th of 2016. According to you, I am the only US-preorder that has NOT received their GPD Win. Your DragonBox shop took my money on that date, yet NEVER sent any confirmation to ANY email address of mine. I checked again. I checked my bank and sent you NUMEROUS screenshots of the same transaction and now (6 months later) you recognize that you received payment, yet you send me nothing. Useless vouchers. They don't work on your own website. I've looked at ALL of my known and unknown email accounts. NO email was sent to any of them. You know what you've promised and lied to.

-FlapJack
[doublepost=1483697691,1483697493][/doublepost]You just replied: "
Michael Mrozek <EvilDragon@openpandora.org>
To
American Reprographics
Today at 2:07 AM
Am Fri, 6 Jan 2017 01:11:46 +0000 (UTC) hat American Reprographics
<plots@sbcglobal.net> geschrieben:

Hi,

hm, interesting. Then the payment provider really uses the domain name
they found on the net instead of the company name. I don't order stuff
from myself, so I never saw this (and it doesn't make much sense in my
opinion), but okay.

Thanks for the info."


So NO accountability - just a "hm"....
[doublepost=1483697875][/doublepost]I realize that I'm going to be banned and shunned from this website, but I wanted justice. I may never get it, but it's enough that some people will know what you've been doing. You haven't been playing fair with me. Please tell me WHY a consumer such as myself isn't treated fairly.
 

rygD

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Maybe calm down a bit. He has a lot of stuff going on, and could be working to fix this for you. Sometimes shit happens, and ED has always tried to make things right, even when he is not at fault. Let him look into everything again.

Just so you don't feel so alone, after the aluminum Pandora cases were cancelled I didn't get my refund, and it took a while before I got a voucher for it. That isn't as bad as what has been happening to you, though. I really don't think ED is trying to screw you over.
[doublepost=1483702712,1483698685][/doublepost]Ok, so based on what I see in this and the 1K+ preorder thread, ED just found out that domain name, instead of company name, is "normal". Did you ever get in touch with your bank? ED may be looking into it on his end, and just neglected to say so. You can ask, but don't be upset if it takes a while to get a reply or if it slows things down (the shop is a side job for him, and it is mostly just him with a little help afaik, so replying to questions takes away from time for other things). I think it took months for my voucher, and your issue seems to be one with banks and payment handling, so not an internal thing for him.
[doublepost=1483703832][/doublepost]Based on recent stuff you added in the other thread, it looks like he gave you a discount for shipping in addition to giving you the voucher, so I am confused what you are upset about. He said he would discount your shipping costs, not pay them for you. It also has to be sent via UPS due to the battery, which is why shipping is so expensive.

Can you fill in the blanks, as I am still a bit confused about things. Did you actually get the voucher, as shown in the screenshot?
 

FlapJack

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Maybe calm down a bit. He has a lot of stuff going on, and could be working to fix this for you. Sometimes shit happens, and ED has always tried to make things right, even when he is not at fault. Let him look into everything again.

Just so you don't feel so alone, after the aluminum Pandora cases were cancelled I didn't get my refund, and it took a while before I got a voucher for it. That isn't as bad as what has been happening to you, though. I really don't think ED is trying to screw you over.
[doublepost=1483702712,1483698685][/doublepost]Ok, so based on what I see in this and the 1K+ preorder thread, ED just found out that domain name, instead of company name, is "normal". Did you ever get in touch with your bank? ED may be looking into it on his end, and just neglected to say so. You can ask, but don't be upset if it takes a while to get a reply or if it slows things down (the shop is a side job for him, and it is mostly just him with a little help afaik, so replying to questions takes away from time for other things). I think it took months for my voucher, and your issue seems to be one with banks and payment handling, so not an internal thing for him.
[doublepost=1483703832][/doublepost]Based on recent stuff you added in the other thread, it looks like he gave you a discount for shipping in addition to giving you the voucher, so I am confused what you are upset about. He said he would discount your shipping costs, not pay them for you. It also has to be sent via UPS due to the battery, which is why shipping is so expensive.

Can you fill in the blanks, as I am still a bit confused about things. Did you actually get the voucher, as shown in the screenshot?
Yes, I've already been over this with ED. He's led me on at every turn. I accepted a $30 increase for shipping. He had offered that so that I could get my unit. I plug in his every changing voucher codes and the best offer is that I owe over $65. Not good enough. I paid for the unit already. He knows that. He's lied to me at every turn.
 

rygD

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how much is the shipping, and what is it saying you owe?

Did you pay for shipping when you preordered?
I don't know if that is possible, as I only preordered the Pyra and the aluminum case.
 

FlapJack

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No, I didn't pay for any shipping at that time. I thought that I had bought the GPD Win. ED just sent me an email telling me that I had bought a preorder of it....so apparently I had purchased 95% of a computer at that time. He was just trying to figure out what sort of profit that he could slap ontop of it....but I still NEVER got an email notifying me of such. Not in my real or fake email. NOT ONE RESPONSE from ED or DragonBox. So, I had to come back here and be an a$$. I'm sorry for that, but what can a customer do if they have been wronged?
 

rygD

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So other than a communication breakdown between you and him, and him offering to pay almost half of the shipping, and a mistake made when sending you the voucher, what is the problem?
 

FlapJack

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how much is the shipping, and what is it saying you owe?

Did you pay for shipping when you preordered?
I don't know if that is possible, as I only preordered the Pyra and the aluminum case.
He's saying that I owe another $65 on top of the $300 that I spent. He once told me something different in an email here. I don't know if fighting for a principle is the best thing here right now, but I do know that I'm right.
 

rygD

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So the discount on shipping isn't being applied? I am still not really understanding...
 

FlapJack

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So other than a communication breakdown between you and him, and him offering to pay almost half of the shipping, and a mistake made when sending you the voucher, what is the problem?
I will pay the extra $65 which will turn into $80 with bank fees. I'm trying to smooth things over, but I have been lied to. There are no winners here tonight.
 

FlapJack

Active Member
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So the discount on shipping isn't being applied? I am still not really understanding...
He took off about $32 in shipping. It took the "UPS Shipping" bill down from an egregious $65 to $33. What I didn't know was that I didn't buy the GPD Win back in July 2016. I bought whatever percentage that ED decides that I bought of the unit. I didn't know...and worse, I didn't receive ANY emails. So I had no idea.
[doublepost=1483706934,1483706812][/doublepost]If I had of known that buying a tiny device would incur $65 of shipping? I would NEVER have ordered it in the first place. I've been screwed at every turn here. No offense.
[doublepost=1483714253][/doublepost]Michael Mrozek <EvilDragon@openpandora.org>
To
American Reprographics
Today at 6:19 AM
Am Fri, 6 Jan 2017 12:31:34 +0000 (UTC) hat American Reprographics
<plots@sbcglobal.net> geschrieben:

Hi,

> Yes, I was under the assumption that I had paid for the GPD Win in
> full and was just waiting for some shipping instructions. It seemed
> - at the time - that the unit was going to be retailing for around
> $300'ish.

The official preorder price of the GPD Win was $330 worldwide for all
distributors.
It was set by GPD.

You can see that in some news here:
http://liliputing.com/2016/06/gpd-win-handheld-gaming-pc-available-pre-order-330-video.html

Or on geekbuying:
http://promotion.geekbuying.com/promotion/tablet_brand_sale

311 EUR were exactly $330, so it was no difference between my shop or
any other shop.

$299 was the INDIEGOGO price, as that included a higher risk (the
device didn't exist back then).

The official retail price for the GPD Win was always $499 btw, this can
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, the price was always $299 or $330 or $499. Makes sense.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, what should I say?
Sometimes emails don't arrive, and I had some customers contacting me
telling me they didn't receive their voucher code and sorted that out
right away.

It was written on the product page that this is a downpayment, that the
final price will be 311 EUR and that you will receive a voucher
directly after the payment.

If you had read the description, you would've known all that and
could've sorted that out earlier.

I'm not sure why you didn't contact me earlier.
There were also posts at the boards that the shipment of the
preorders had started.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Contacted you earlier? HOW EARLIER? No matter how you try to couch this, it's a deceptive tact that you've taken.
One of your Moderators admitted so. What would've happened if I had noticed that others were receiving their units before me?
I may have bought myself a day or a few days to satisfy your pretend scenario. I noticed it when I noticed it.

You've LIED to me numerous times. These have been documented. I will post more emails from you.

Maybe you thought that I wasn't a person. That I didn't deserve common decency. I'm a customer of YOURS.

You treated me wrongly, ED. You're NOT above the law.
[doublepost=1483714496][/doublepost]American Reprographics <plots@sbcglobal.net>
To
Michael Mrozek
Today at 6:36 AM
Yeah, if you say so....and your shop took out $320 for the GPD Win. I guess that some of that was bank fees, but I thought that I was doing some good and buying a computer. Turns out that I bought 95% of one and no guarantee of shipping and no emails were a comin'. Don't ya see where you went wrong? I never saw ANY status about this device and I had to go be a pain in the ass on the Forums. All because you don't care about ME. The customer. You keep making it a point about how I should be blamed about not getting a device that you have already said that I haven't gotten and that I haven't received any emails about. Look within. You're to blame for treating a customer so.
 

EvilDragon

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Contacted you earlier? HOW EARLIER? No matter how you try to couch this, it's a deceptive tact that you've taken.
Errm. Nope. I'm just posting what has happened. Nothing more, nothing less.

One of your Moderators admitted so. What would've happened if I had noticed that others were receiving their units before me?
I may have bought myself a day or a few days to satisfy your pretend scenario. I noticed it when I noticed it.
I'm not sure what one of my moderators admitted here, as I can't see any moderator posting here at this thread.
Besides, none of the moderators have any access to the shop, to the payment providers nor anything else, so not sure what he admitted, but feel free to post this here.

But please let me know how I should've handled it?
You can ask any other preorderers here:

  • The shop sends out automatic voucher codes and an order confirmation. Sometimes the voucher doesn't get send out (if the payment was delayed), but the order confirmation is ALWAYS being sent.
  • I also sent an email to ALL GPD Win preorderers when the device was in stock, including a link to complete the order. I also mentioned that one should contact me if he didn't receive the voucher earlier
Well, the emails never arrived in you mailbox. However: How should I have known that?

If you want to know why they didn't arrive: Please ask google, as that was the mail address you used.

The email you sent to me later was from a different account (sbcglobal) and was blocked, but once you mentioned that here at the shop, I investigated, sent you a PM, got myself removed from sbcglobals blacklist and replied to any email you sent to me since then.

So, how should I have handled this?
How should I have known you didn't receive an email? As soon as I DID know (via the boards here), I immediately reacted. That's all I could do.

You've LIED to me numerous times. These have been documented. I will post more emails from you.
Sure, anytime. I don't have anything to hide.
Feel free to point out where I have been lying to you. The only things I can think of was:

  • I didn't think the payment provider used openpandora.de as name, but rather OpenPandora GmbH. So I found that weird, but as I never order from myself, I couldn't confirm it. That was my mistake, okay. You can call that lying, but it's not really important anyways and in my opinion "lying" is only possible if done intentionally (and I didn't know that, so I couldn't do it intentionally).
  • I accidentally sent you a wrong voucher. That was no lie, that was an accident, and it was fixed within a couple of hours (once I saw your email about that).
So...?

Maybe you thought that I wasn't a person. That I didn't deserve common decency. I'm a customer of YOURS.
Yes, I treat all my customers the same and try to be as helpful as possible.
That's why I offered to cover half of the shipping costs on my account, which means that the profit on the preorder is nothing.

So you're even getting a better deal than anyone who paid the full shipping costs.

And that's not good enough for you?

You treated me wrongly, ED. You're NOT above the law.
Right, I'm not above the law, why should I?

But please let me know where I treated you wrongly?

Here's a quick summary of what happened:

  • You preordered a GPD Win and a Pyra in July using a Spam-eMail address and an account which doesn't have your real name or age in it (according to the account, your name is Flap Jack and you're a 9-year-old kid).
  • You didn't notice that those 280 EUR are a DOWNPAYMENT for the system and the final price will be 311 EUR. This was clearly written in the product description, and the GPD Win Preorder has a big "PLEASE READ THE DESCRIPTION!" directly behind the products name.
  • You didn't receive the emails from the shop, for whatever reason. I cannot check why you didn't receive them, I can only confirm in the logs that they have been sent out (and they have been).
  • You didn't try to contact me asking whether it's normal that you didn't receive ANYTHING from the shop.
  • You also didn't receive the email from me that the GPD Win is now in stock and can be shipped out.
  • You contacted me using a different email address in the shop sometime in December. That was about some payments on your bank account from openpandora.de, even though you never received the item. I replied to it, but the email was blocked by sbcglobal.
  • Then you posted the same thing at the boards that you didn't get replies from the shop, so I did contact you using the shops PM system, and also tried to investigate why my previous the email from the shop didn't arrive. I then found out that sbcglobal had me on the blacklist. I asked them to remove me and now I can send emails to you again (as you noticed).
  • I also asked you to check with your bank why "openpandora.de" has supposedly deducted money from your account. I checked with my payment provider, and no more money had been requested except for the one in July when you ordered. I CANNOT even request more money, as the only one who has your details (for security reasons) is the payment provider. I don't have your credit card number or anything else. I cannot simply grab money out of your account. Have you asked your bank yet and received a reply?
  • I offered you paying half of the shipping costs, so they wouldn't be too high for you, so I sent a voucher for that.
  • You asked for your original voucher code, which you didn't receive... well, then some emails were needed since you didn't use your real name and a different email address for the order in the shop, which means I couldn't find your order at first. But once I found it, I sent you the voucher code - however, it was accidentally a wrong one.
  • You then told me that the voucher code was wrong and I sent you the correct one.
  • Then you started to call me liar, blamed me that I still want money (because you didn't read it was a downpayment), etc.

So, that's it, as far as I remember.
Feel free to correct anything and show me some proof that I'm a liar.
The only issues I can see is that you didn't receive the mails (which I didn't know), that you didn't read the product description, that you used a fake name / different email address to place the order and that I accidentally sent you out a wrong voucher code.

I have NO idea why your bank claims that we supposedly took out money from your account in December. Neither did anything arrive at my account, nothing is logged in the payment logs of my payment provider.
The only one who can tell you where that money went and who requested that payment is your bank. So I advise you to ask them, as I did before.
 

directive0

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So let me get this straight:
Flapster paid the preorder downpayment for the Win, 280 EUR, withdrawn and received by the EvilDrags.
All that remains is the final payment bringing to total to 330 EUR.
The Flaps is upset because they paid 280 and now needs to complete the payment of 50EUR, something ED maintains was clearly noted in the documentation at time of purchase.

Sounds like mistakes were made all around but Flappy here doesn't want to pay the price they implicitly agreed to when making the initial purchase. Don't see much malice aforethought from ED. Some communication breakdowns/mistakes, exacerbated by Flaptrons desire to remain anonymous.

You've opened this whole thing up to the court of public opinion and claimed you experience undue harm, which based on what I'm seeing here doesn't really track. I think you're being a little hot under the collar here, Flapmo. My advice; pay the man what you owe him and move on with your life.

All this other stuff seems like histrionics to me. If there is some felonious behaviour from ED nothing you've posted really seems to bear that out.
 

EvilDragon

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So let me get this straight:
Flapster paid the preorder downpayment for the Win, 280 EUR, withdrawn and received by the EvilDrags.
Yes.

All that remains is the final payment bringing to total to 330 EUR.
Not exactly: It's 311 EUR + 30 EUR for shipping (which is half the normal shipping costs, I'm paying the rest out of my own pocket).
So 61 EUR left.

The Flaps is upset because they paid 280 and now needs to complete the payment of 50EUR, something ED maintains was clearly noted in the documentation at time of purchase.
Yes.

You've opened this whole thing up to the court of public opinion and claimed you experience undue harm, which based on what I'm seeing here doesn't really track. I think you're being a little hot under the collar here, Flapmo. My advice; pay the man what you owe him and move on with your life.
I also offered a full refund, though due to the USD / EUR exchange rate, it would be less than he paid. (All orders here are made in USD).
I'm fine with anything :)
 

Klumpen

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As I've noticed in my own job, shipping to the US is ridiculously expensive and it's usueally cheaper to send something anywhere else on the world, sending something back from US to Germany is even more expensive.
Does anybody know why this is the case?
 

FaeMinx

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I have been saying that to you for a while. :D
And yet we do not see Eye to Eye on many things.
This is fine of course... my perspective is an acquired taste.
And by acquired I mean to develop within oneself through no small amount of effort. You have to want to though... and so it is best to leave everyone to the perspective they construct for themselves, for that is their own reflection.

Until of course... they come and try to in-force their perspective on you.
That's when you laugh and walk away... or if they keep on at you after you tell them to quit it, you're not interested... give them a smack in the face... in public.
Unfortunately they may be so full of hurt pride they cannot bear that and will keep on at you even harder.

So it's best to just ignore them...
... But I actually am unsure what the best course of action is when dealing with a person who demands validation of their perspective...

I guess experience leads to wisdom is the only comfort here.
 
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