You emailed me an expired/used voucher code.

Status
Not open for further replies.

EvilDragon

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 4, 2003
Messages
29,271
Age
42
Location
Ingolstadt
@EvilDragon
For future reference, US residents will most often represent dates as mm/dd/yyyy. Yes, that is a bit nuts. Since you are servicing international orders with a chunk of them from the US, I recommend that whatever form you are having dates entered into gets broken down into separate fields for year, month, day. It looks like the above date from @FlapJack of 7/12/2016 was meant to be interpreted as July 12, 2016. Since it was sent in text form (not a date field) the interpretation difference could be seen as 'cultural'. IMHO we should adopt ISO 8601 date formatting worldwide and use yyyymmdd (ex: 20160712) formatting and reject mm/dd/yyyy and dd/mm/yyyy for anything.
Well, he didn't send me text not was it a form, he sent me a screenshot of his online banking account, so there was nothing telling me what was month and day.

But seriously... I can now understand to understand why FlapJack is in such a rage.
This REALLY sounds too ridiculous to be true, honestly. This is Murphy's Law at its best (or rather worst).

Here is a summary of what happened:

  1. FlapJack preordered a Pyra and GPD Win using his GMail email address on July 12th (2016-07-12, in international date). He paid using a credit card. He didn't use his real name for the preorder, he used his nickname. So far, so good.
  2. For whatever reason, he didn't receive any emails from the shop to that gmail address, even though the shop correctly sent them (that's what I can check, but I can't check what gmail did with them).
  3. Then the GPD Win was ready for shipping. I sent everyone an email with a link to finish the order. I also mentioned in that mail that I know shipping to USA is expensive and everyone who thinks it's too expensive for him can wait and I'll try to find some combined shipping that would be cheaper. Sadly, FlapJack also didn't receive this email.
  4. Then, middle December, he contacted me, claiming that the bank has deducted money from his account for the preorder, even though that order was way back from June (it was July, but he accidentally said June). He sent me a screenshot of his bank account which showed openpandora.de has deducted money (2016-07-12, which I read as December 7th). I understood that mail wrong. I thought his issue was that he ordered and paid in June and now the bank has deducted money AGAIN! So I told him to check it with his bank, as we didn't deduct any additional money. I couldn't check his order, as both the email address and name he used were different from the one he used to place the orders. As the whole transaction in December looked fishy to me, I also told him that there shouldn't appear an openpandora.de for the payment (I was wrong here - but it still sounds weird to me that my credit card payment service used openpandora.de when the official company name is OpenPandora GmbH.
  5. Unfortunately, that email never arrived, as sbcglobal email-addresses were blocked (as I found out later)
  6. So he posted that at the boards. I contacted him via PM and also checked why my reply has not been received by him. I found out that sbcglobal blocked my mails ("failure notice"-emails) and they also provided instructions how to get unblocked (which I did).
  7. Then we had a few emails where I needed to check his original payment, as I couldn't find an order from him (I checked name and email address, but both were different in the order, as he used his nickname and a different email address).
  8. Once I could confirm his payment and found out about the two different email addresses, I sent him the shipping cost voucher, as I did with all other remaining oversea orders. I didn't know that he has not received the original voucher.
  9. Then he told me he doesn't have to original voucher code. I looked it up in the database, accidentally copied the wrong code (one line too high) and sent him that one.
  10. That voucher code had already been used, so he got angry (understandable). I sent him the correct voucher code right away.
  11. He used both the half-shipping costs and the preorder voucher code and got angry again - because he still had 61 EUR to pay (not 30 EUR, as "promised"). Apparently, he didn't read about the downpayment.
  12. Well... here we are now.
So yes, it's SO MANY bad coincidences... I can understand he's angry.

If the emails from gmail did arrive back then, he would've had the voucher code and would've also received the notification that the GPD Win is now ready to be shipped.
If he didn't contact me in December but in November, I wouldn't have misinterpreted the date, as December would've been in the future back then. I also probably wouldn't have wondered about the openpandora.de on the payment details.
If he didn't use a different email address and name for the order than later when he contacted me, we wouldn't have needed to investigate the payment as I would've found his order right away.
If sbcglobal didn't have blocked my emails, he would've received my answer earlier (and probably wouldn't have posted here at the boards).
If I wouldn't have accidentally sent him the wrong voucher code, he would probably not be that pissed off as he is right now.
If he read about the downpayment and final price, he wouldn't have wondered that he still has to pay 31 EUR for the unit itself.

That's a LOT of weird ifs... if someone told me that story, I wouldn't have believed it myself. Anything that can go wrong DID go wrong here.
It's no ones fault though. It was a lot of misunderstandings, bad coincidences, etc.

Still, I don't like all that shouting and yelling. I rather try to fix something by finding solutions than by shouting around.
And I certainly wouldn't accuse anyone that he was lying (unless there's some REAL proof), but that's how differently people react.

The only thing I can offer now is an additional 10 EUR voucher. This way, that order would've made zero profit for me, but at least I wouldn't make a loss.
So that would be 51 EUR left to be paid (incl. shipping costs).
 

Grench

Forum Addict!
Joined
Oct 3, 2008
Messages
6,269
I am making an attempt to be an impartial mediator. Hope this helps.

It's no ones fault though. It was a lot of misunderstandings, bad coincidences, etc.
Yes, there was an amalgamation of unintentional errors involved from both parties and circumstances beyond either's control. You have acknowledged your errors and offered (IMHO) more than reasonable recompense as an apology.

Still, I don't like all that shouting and yelling. I rather try to fix something by finding solutions than by shouting around.
And I certainly wouldn't accuse anyone that he was lying (unless there's some REAL proof), but that's how differently people react.
@FlapJack's behavior is out of line in the nature of his accusations. I can understand his frustrations in this comedy of errors. However the blistering nature of the commentary is unnecessary. Again IMHO, he really should apologize for this behavior.

The only thing I can offer now is an additional 10 EUR voucher. This way, that order would've made zero profit for me, but at least I wouldn't make a loss.
So that would be 51 EUR left to be paid (incl. shipping costs).
That is beyond generous and more than you really should do, but as you stated it here, that offer should stand.

@FlapJack, as I see it you have two choices. Either pay the 51 EUR remaining after DownPayment + shipping - HugeDiscount OR request a refund of your DownPayment. An optional but suggested action for community points would be to apologize for the above behavior now that it has been revealed that there was no malice towards you. This was a comedy of errors - yours, EDs and circumstantial included. You are not being punished, singled out or maligned in the transaction. It was not personal, but accidental with you sharing a portion of the responsibility for the miscommunication.

If you DO decide to proceed with the order, may I recommend that you do so with a note on the transaction that verifies your current alias, real name, address, email address, phone number, order number AND the alias, real name, address, email address and phone number used at the time of transaction - even if several of those are still the same. The community don't need those published into this forum. It should help keep things clear for ED when finishing out this transaction.

May this get solved amicably for both parties.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rSl

EvilDragon

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 4, 2003
Messages
29,271
Age
42
Location
Ingolstadt
With every other company he'd have already lost by using different eMail-addresses and different names. Who does that?
Naah, that's nothing special. I've got multiple email addresses as well, and I'm not using the same for a shop and a forum, for example.
Not using the real name in a shop is something weird for me though :)
[doublepost=1484252648,1484252544][/doublepost]
If you DO decide to proceed with the order, may I recommend that you do so with a note on the transaction that verifies your current alias, real name, address, email address, phone number, order number AND the alias, real name, address, email address and phone number used at the time of transaction - even if several of those are still the same. The community don't need those published into this forum. It should help keep things clear for ED when finishing out this transaction.
Naah, that's not needed, the payment is being done via the shop API, it's all automatically.
The shop forwards him to the payment service and the payment service automatically sets the order as being paid. No manual interaction needed.
 

rSl

i'm not tired. you're tired.
Joined
Nov 19, 2005
Messages
795
Location
homecomputer
i really don't want to, even remotely, think of how many time this 'special case support' research eats away.
and i think flapjack should pay the full shipping-costs after being so rude. every money ed makes with the shop
is being used for the pyra production. so this rudeness is not just taking away *a lot* of time but also money...
so once again, thanks ed for managing this in such a calm and generous way, and flapjack please stop calling ed names.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gon

rygD

Nihilistic Mystic
Joined
Feb 28, 2014
Messages
7,385
Location
Everywhere
I think ED is more kind than he is a businessman, as most businessmen would have probably given a refund rather than spending so much time trying to fix this for one customer, and spending additional additional time trying to seek out what happened and setting the record straight. Time is money. He is also not making a profit (and to me it does look like he is taking a small loss). Maybe I am just not used to honest and responsible businessmen.

I am still wondering if I can get a discount, too. Maybe on the Pyra. ;)
 

mecksg1

Very Active Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2010
Messages
244
you get a discount, and you get a discount, we all get discounts yay
 

FaeMinx

Rainbow Liberation Instigation
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
Messages
3,124
Age
39
Location
outside looking in side looking out
Last night two young girls came into my stall and they gave me a real headache.

They wanted me to give them rainbow ribbons for free.

"I'm sorry I can't do that. This is how I make a living... If I gave them away, I couldn't afford to make any more and then nobody could get a ribbon." Was the gist of my argument.

The younger girl followed the lead of the older, but the older tried everything...

From bambi eyes, quivering lips, to statements like this:

"I've said please, now you have to give it to me."

"If you don't give it to me, I'll break it."

They didn't listen to reason... and saying no didn't stop them... I imagine they learned these tactics at home, and I was really angry with the parents for enabling this kind of behaviour.

She even demanded money from me and stuck her hand in my money bag. When that didn't work she asked for my credit card, saying:
"I just want to look at it."

I had to warn a customer who was busy paying me, and sure enough the girl openly tried to take money out of the lady's wallet.

The worst part is the girl didn't know she was doing anything wrong.

Edit: I sometimes do give away ribbons, when I see a child's face light up, but their parents have dead eyes and no sensitivity...

...Though I couldn't give in to these girls, because that would just reinforce their dysfunctional down spiraling behaviour.

It's a shame there are so so many people like that in the world... when they get older they just get sneakier about it.

These people should not be enabled!

NO DISCOUNTS you naughty kids!
 
Last edited:

FlapJack

Active Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2016
Messages
222
Age
48
Well, he didn't send me text not was it a form, he sent me a screenshot of his online banking account, so there was nothing telling me what was month and day.

But seriously... I can now understand to understand why FlapJack is in such a rage.
This REALLY sounds too ridiculous to be true, honestly. This is Murphy's Law at its best (or rather worst).

Here is a summary of what happened:

  1. FlapJack preordered a Pyra and GPD Win using his GMail email address on July 12th (2016-07-12, in international date). He paid using a credit card. He didn't use his real name for the preorder, he used his nickname. So far, so good.
  2. For whatever reason, he didn't receive any emails from the shop to that gmail address, even though the shop correctly sent them (that's what I can check, but I can't check what gmail did with them).
  3. Then the GPD Win was ready for shipping. I sent everyone an email with a link to finish the order. I also mentioned in that mail that I know shipping to USA is expensive and everyone who thinks it's too expensive for him can wait and I'll try to find some combined shipping that would be cheaper. Sadly, FlapJack also didn't receive this email.
  4. Then, middle December, he contacted me, claiming that the bank has deducted money from his account for the preorder, even though that order was way back from June (it was July, but he accidentally said June). He sent me a screenshot of his bank account which showed openpandora.de has deducted money (2016-07-12, which I read as December 7th). I understood that mail wrong. I thought his issue was that he ordered and paid in June and now the bank has deducted money AGAIN! So I told him to check it with his bank, as we didn't deduct any additional money. I couldn't check his order, as both the email address and name he used were different from the one he used to place the orders. As the whole transaction in December looked fishy to me, I also told him that there shouldn't appear an openpandora.de for the payment (I was wrong here - but it still sounds weird to me that my credit card payment service used openpandora.de when the official company name is OpenPandora GmbH.
  5. Unfortunately, that email never arrived, as sbcglobal email-addresses were blocked (as I found out later)
  6. So he posted that at the boards. I contacted him via PM and also checked why my reply has not been received by him. I found out that sbcglobal blocked my mails ("failure notice"-emails) and they also provided instructions how to get unblocked (which I did).
  7. Then we had a few emails where I needed to check his original payment, as I couldn't find an order from him (I checked name and email address, but both were different in the order, as he used his nickname and a different email address).
  8. Once I could confirm his payment and found out about the two different email addresses, I sent him the shipping cost voucher, as I did with all other remaining oversea orders. I didn't know that he has not received the original voucher.
  9. Then he told me he doesn't have to original voucher code. I looked it up in the database, accidentally copied the wrong code (one line too high) and sent him that one.
  10. That voucher code had already been used, so he got angry (understandable). I sent him the correct voucher code right away.
  11. He used both the half-shipping costs and the preorder voucher code and got angry again - because he still had 61 EUR to pay (not 30 EUR, as "promised"). Apparently, he didn't read about the downpayment.
  12. Well... here we are now.
So yes, it's SO MANY bad coincidences... I can understand he's angry.

If the emails from gmail did arrive back then, he would've had the voucher code and would've also received the notification that the GPD Win is now ready to be shipped.
If he didn't contact me in December but in November, I wouldn't have misinterpreted the date, as December would've been in the future back then. I also probably wouldn't have wondered about the openpandora.de on the payment details.
If he didn't use a different email address and name for the order than later when he contacted me, we wouldn't have needed to investigate the payment as I would've found his order right away.
If sbcglobal didn't have blocked my emails, he would've received my answer earlier (and probably wouldn't have posted here at the boards).
If I wouldn't have accidentally sent him the wrong voucher code, he would probably not be that pissed off as he is right now.
If he read about the downpayment and final price, he wouldn't have wondered that he still has to pay 31 EUR for the unit itself.

That's a LOT of weird ifs... if someone told me that story, I wouldn't have believed it myself. Anything that can go wrong DID go wrong here.
It's no ones fault though. It was a lot of misunderstandings, bad coincidences, etc.

Still, I don't like all that shouting and yelling. I rather try to fix something by finding solutions than by shouting around.
And I certainly wouldn't accuse anyone that he was lying (unless there's some REAL proof), but that's how differently people react.

The only thing I can offer now is an additional 10 EUR voucher. This way, that order would've made zero profit for me, but at least I wouldn't make a loss.
So that would be 51 EUR left to be paid (incl. shipping costs).

OKAY. I accept.

Once I get the device, I will give my take on the matter. I felt that I was wronged at every turn, BUT your contrition is welcome and will be good for everyone.
[doublepost=1484546580,1484546269][/doublepost]Thank you ALL for your input. THAT'S what it takes to keep a Community....voice your opinion and sometimes fight for it. We're ALL better for it.
[doublepost=1484547263][/doublepost]
OKAY. I accept.

Once I get the device, I will give my take on the matter. I felt that I was wronged at every turn, BUT your contrition is welcome and will be good for everyone.
[doublepost=1484546580,1484546269][/doublepost]Thank you ALL for your input. THAT'S what it takes to keep a Community....voice your opinion and sometimes fight for it. We're ALL better for it.
P E A C E
[doublepost=1484547500][/doublepost]I just want to go back to being a lil' pat o' butter.
[doublepost=1484555043][/doublepost]....awaiting an acceptable voucher code and link.......
 

EvilDragon

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 4, 2003
Messages
29,271
Age
42
Location
Ingolstadt
OKAY. I accept.
Your voucher code has been updated to be worth 290 EUR.

Once I get the device, I will give my take on the matter.
Not sure what you will do there. Tell the world that you got the GPD Win cheaper than anyone else?

BUT your contrition is welcome and will be good for everyone.
Not sure how it will be good to anyone except for you.
Well, except for that these posts will stop, maybe?

But apart from that, even though it's not much, it takes away money from the Pyra development, so it's actually bad for everyone except you.

Thank you ALL for your input. THAT'S what it takes to keep a Community....voice your opinion and sometimes fight for it. We're ALL better for it.
Not sure why you're thanking the community here. Reading all the posts they made, it seems like no one really agreed with you here... some even wrote you should rather pay the full price now than getting any discount.

So I can't see how the community did help you.
 

directive0

Very Active Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
781
Location
Toronto, Canada
Thanks for doing what you can to keep your customers happy, ED. You're a great storekeeper.

I will be buying some more stuff from you soon. Let me know if theres anyway I can help offset the cost of this fiasco.
 

FlapJack

Active Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2016
Messages
222
Age
48
I placed the order. Like I said before, if I had been informed that shipping would be $65, than I probably would've balked at the purchase(s). Normally these type of world-wide shipping deals to the USA are around $20~ish...usually less. Also, I did say that I never got any emails over the course of several months (since I paid for the items in mid-July 2016). I asked for info and I was ignored and rebuffed. Sometimes I was appeased by a forum reply or a forum mail...or sometimes a false voucher code. This went on for a long time though. I got to a point where I was angry and decided to come to the forums with my problem. THAT'S when ED decided to try to fix things and help me with my order. I tried nice emails and they didn't get me anywhere. So, before you judge me, put yourself in my shoes. For how long can you remain silent? I was getting the run-around.

For a few of you that are questioning my motives: I ordered 2 products, a GPD Win and a Pyra - I thought that I knew that what I had paid for. I thought that I had paid for a GPD Win minus the shipping. I also thought that I had purchased half of a Pyra (the US loaded version). I agreed that I hadn't paid for any shipping. That's what I was led to believe that I had purchased. According to ED's own words:


Okay, finally the GPD Win is back in stock!

Here is your additional voucher:
7QGXZI11

This will reduce the costs by 32 EUR, which means you will have 30 EUR shipping costs left, I'll cover the remaining payment.

Please use the link you received in the email a while ago, as the normal GPD Win on the website is more expensive than the preordered one.

Let me know if you need anymore help.



In a few days I will no doubt receive my GPD Win and then I will suggest that an Administrator close this thread. Until then? Keep it open.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for "mecksg1" or "Gon" or anyone else that thinks that I'm just doing this for the drama or the "circus". I hate this....I felt that it was my last resort. I reached out to people here on the forums. I sent mail to Admins, which actually got me a response from ED. I only went "public" here when I kept getting the run-around. I could've gone full mental and went social websites (i.e. Twitter, Facebook, reddit, etc). I didn't want to, because I still thought of myself as a person in this community. I TOTALLY get why you'd back ED for anything and everything, but don't let your devotion be blind to facts. What happens when you're the only preorderer left to receive their unit? Maybe you could think that something is going on....
 

rygD

Nihilistic Mystic
Joined
Feb 28, 2014
Messages
7,385
Location
Everywhere
Normally these type of world-wide shipping deals to the USA are around $20~ish...usually less.
Not in my experience, even without a battery in the box.

I got to a point where I was angry and decided to come to the forums with my problem. THAT'S when ED decided to try to fix things and help me with my order.
Didn't he give you the discounted shipping before you made this public?

In a few days I will no doubt receive my GPD Win and then I will suggest that an Administrator close this thread.
Don't forget customs and all that. ED has no control over what happens there.


I still think you cold have handled things differently. I was (as far as I could tell based on posts here) the only person that didn't receive my voucher after the aluminum case was cancelled. It still took a long time for that to get worked out, and there were no communication issues. I agree with trying to look out for yourself, and not trusting just anyone, especially if they have a good reputation. I can't say I understand your tactics here, or that I agree with the unfounded accusations...I still don't see where you were wronged, just that there was confusion.

When dealing with a small business, especially one where you know it is a side business of pretty much one person, you could try to be patient and work with them. People make mistakes and things happen, but most of the time merchants a aren't trying to screw you over.
Around the middle of last year I ordered a custom item. The item has a long lead time at the very bottom of the order page (no bold or anything), so I waited. The artist making it also has a monthly subscription service for their work (this is their full time job), and October, which is when I should have received the item, is an especially busy time for them due to the nature of their work. I gave them some extra time before I bothered them because I knew so many things were attacked against me. In early November, after the Halloween rush and before the Christmas rush, I tried to contract them, and waited. No response. A week or two later I shot of another email and waited. After another week, when preparing to send another email, I noticed I had received a reply that I somehow missed where they told me they were working on it. Another week or so later they told me they would be sending it out. Near the end of December, months after the latest date it should have arrived, I finally got it. I am very happy to be one of the handful of people to own this item, and I love it. I focus on that, not all the things that went wrong.

There have been times where I ordered other custom items and was lied to, and where the artist had no intention to send me the items I ordered, and after many months of back and forth they finally threw something together that they should have been ashamed of. I was actually lucky, as other buyers got things that were even worse, and many got nothing more than money missing from their bank accounts. This is why I now start off with single item orders, although these particular artists are usually proud of their work and want to share their vision with others (and are well known within the small communities that commission work from them).

Don't forget, the things that you do ripple out and affect others.

Can I get a discount on my Pyra?
 

FlapJack

Active Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2016
Messages
222
Age
48
"Didn't he give you the discounted shipping before you made this public?"

No. I made posts about my situation back in November, 2016. ED responded (dismissed them) at the time. I was getting some sporadic correspondence from ED before I opened this particular thread, but I was convinced that I was being misled. At least read ED's own post on this very page. He alludes to somethings that he feels comfortable to admit to and post. That should give you some idea(s) if you're good at reading between the lines.


"I still think you cold have handled things differently."

YES, I could've handled things differently. Of course. I could've handled it better OR worse. Who knows if I would've been eventually successful in quietly waiting? I was trying behind the scenes until I deemed that it had been long enough. That's a judgement call on my part and it's going to be the wrong one according to you and many people....no matter how much time had passed.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top