Yet another pandora-sucessor concept


Ziz

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Pleeeeaaase forget about 1080p screens, especially with 16:9!

16:9 sucks like hell. Even using 800x480 instead of an "oldschool" 4:3 resolution (maybe even 800x600!) was a failure in my opinion. Now we have massive 4:3 open handhelds - and the pandora.

However much more important is not to go for 1080p. I just don't see any advantage. The screen is too small to benefit! You would just waste CPU and GPU power in up and down scaling...
 

Exophase

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16:9 sucks like hell. Even using 800x480 instead of an "oldschool" 4:3 resolution (maybe even 800x600!) was a failure in my opinion. Now we have massive 4:3 open handhelds - and the pandora.
No it wasn't a failure because almost no one made 640x480 or 800x600 displays for these form factors, and probably still don't.

But then again you seem to think 320x240 would have been the better option..
 
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Ziz

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No, not for the "Mini-PC" Pandora. Point and click adventures and other retro, but "high" resolution games benefit, too. In fact I use 800x480 on my netbook very often. I just thought, that 4:3 would be the best option for such an open handheld. However, if such a screen isn't available... :\
 

EssoAir

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Well I don't agree with it being a waste (My S3 had a 720p display and my S4 has a 1080p display and I absolutely notice the difference - looks absolutely amazing!) I get where you're coming from. But, since so many devices now have 1080p, manufacturers would be dumb to make anything lower resolution. So, if the Pandora2 were to have a 800x480, 800x600 or even a 720p display, it would cost more money than the 1080p because of the low demand. It's not about the cost to make one individually, but how there are so many plentiful 1080p displays available that they are in turn a lot cheaper. Now, this isn't exactly the reality quite yet. But, by the time the P2 actually gets to the manufacturing stage (so, a long ass time from now) this will ABSOLUTELY be the case. 1080p will be a lot lot cheaper.
 
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Exophase

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No, not for the "Mini-PC" Pandora. Point and click adventures and other retro, but "high" resolution games benefit, too. In fact I use 800x480 on my netbook very often. I just thought, that 4:3 would be the best option for such an open handheld. However, if such a screen isn't available... :\
4:3 doesn't get you anything with Pandora's form factor anyway. The clamshell design with keyboard + gaming controls dictates a minimum width.
 

ekianjo

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Well I don't agree with it being a waste (My S3 had a 720p display and my S4 has a 1080p display and I absolutely notice the difference - looks absolutely amazing!) I get where you're coming from. But, since so many devices now have 1080p, manufacturers would be dumb to make anything lower resolution. So, if the Pandora2 were to have a 800x480, 800x600 or even a 720p display, it would cost more money than the 1080p because of the low demand. It's not about the cost to make one individually, but how there are so many plentiful 1080p displays available that they are in turn a lot cheaper. Now, this isn't exactly the reality quite yet. But, by the time the P2 actually gets to the manufacturing stage (so, a long ass time from now) this will ABSOLUTELY be the case. 1080p will be a lot lot cheaper.
First you dont know the conditions of supply and demand. The Pandora does not have contracts for millions of parts. When talking about small volumes there's probably more difference between 720p cost and 1080p cost and 720p is cheaper, obviously. 

Plus, it's a waste of your power since you need to push more pixels for no additional on-screen value. You will lose FPS in 3D games that would have looked just as good on 720p. 

1080p is stupid. Your TV is 1080p and it;s much bigger and I don't see people asking for 4000*4000 resolution TV for playing games. Stop troliing.
 

EssoAir

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OMFG IM NOT TROLLING!!!!! Gawd would you stop saying that? You take everything I say and write it off as me trying to get a laugh. And no, 720p will not "obviously" be cheaper. It's not about the Pandora's supply and demand, it's about the global market's supply and demand. By the sheer fact that the Pandora is a low-volume manufactured product everything will cost more. But, one way of saving money is by purchasing off-the-shelf parts that are already in large supply. I might be wrong, but by the time the P2 rolls around, there won't be a bunch of 720p displays just ready to be ordered. And to you TV comment, the answer is yes, that is the new thing. Europe already has a sports channel that broadcasts in 4k resolution. Over the next 3 years or so, more and more 4k TVs will be available. And 6-8 years from now every TV will be 4k. It's a natural push by the companies because its an excuse to sell a new TV to the average consumer. Same with smaller displays. The HTC One, Galaxy S4, Oppo Find 5, and several LG phones all have 5" 1080p 16x9 displays. That's a LOT of displays being manufactured. With such a high volume, the cost for the manufacturer goes down. And, in order to stay competitive, they then pass those savings down to the people that buy those displays from them. So, in the end, the 720p display becomes more expensive as manufacturers make more 1080p than 720p. As far as power concerns, I understand what you mean. But just because its a 1080p display, doesn't mean the pandora must run at 1080p. It could be 720p, 480p, or even less. You don't have to match the resolution. In fact, I think this would present a great advantage for the higher resolution as it allows the user to choose what resolution they want to run their device in. For the purposes of software, we could have a set standard decided by the community (likely 720p) that software should be written for so as not to have confusion. But, if a user so chooses, they may step it up, or even step it down to fit their needs. You may ask, "if we're all running at 720p, why get a 1080p display" well, both because of the freedom to choose, but, as I said earlier, it will likely be cheaper. Now, if there is a 720p display that is cheaper, then by all means, lets go for it. But, I really doubt that will happen.
 

ekianjo

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But just because its a 1080p display, doesn't mean the pandora must run at 1080p. It could be 720p, 480p, or even less. You don't have to match the resolution.
What are you talking about ??

1. First, you still have to push pixels to the screen. This is not a CRT screen. It means that with 1080p  you have to push 2 million pixels to the screen 30 times per second, even if you only render 480p and upscale. It's such a waste of power. Its OK to do that on a home console because you are plugged in, but doing this on a portable system is just plain stupid in regard to power consumption.

2.  Upscaling looks terrible in case you don't know, and you need to spend more CPU time to apply filters on the screen to remove all the picture defects it creates on LCD. It stinks.

. But, one way of saving money is by purchasing off-the-shelf parts that are already in large supply.
Does not work like that. At All. It's obvious you have never had any work experience in the industry. When suppliers make milions or parts they make it exclusively for high volumes and in control with large costumers like Samsung and the like. They don't SELL the same screens in small volumes, at all. You can't find these screens on the market if you want to buy 100 of them.

Just inform yourself before giving random opinions.   
 

kuru

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I can't possibly be the only one knowing that the screen decision for a successor has already been made? Don't want to spoil really/don't know how or when ED intends to tell the the public.
 

kuru

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Well only non-business partner at least :)

But yeah - these kinds of discussions are rather moot. Just saying that you guys might want to invest energy in sth else :D
 

Binky

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According to ED on IRC, the Pandora's sucessor will (probably) have a 5" 1280*720 screen
 

EvilDragon

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Nothing is fixed yet, I'm just keeping an eye on possibilities.

And a screen can't be decided until we test it, and that hasn't yet happened.
 

fusion_power

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Nothing is fixed yet, I'm just keeping an eye on possibilities.

And a screen can't be decided until we test it, and that hasn't yet happened.
 If you ever get the chance, ask Pixel Qi if they can make an 5" screen. ;) it would be the first Handheld with such an indoor/outdoor screen I guess, I really like this idea. ^^ Found this OLPC project very impressive and they designed it to be as cheap as possible.

Am I the only person that thinks the current Pandora has plenty of life left?
At least my 600MHz CC Pandora feels more and more outdated. :( No fancy Pandora Android for me, no fast enough QEmu games for me and more 1Ghz "optimized" games are incomming. It's the natural way of the things I guess.

Ok, most important part why I bareley use Pandora anymore is, that Path of Exile does not run on it. :D
 

thatgui

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It's not only about ED for HDMI, it's about "if everyone else willing to pay for it, i.e. an increased price for the device?" -> we already know the Pandora 1 is too expensive to grow a sizable market size, let's not make matters worse shall we?
Why are you so persitent about this ? Nothing is fixed yet, HDMI is currently an option as is Displayport as is something else I am currently not able to think of. Yes, one has to pay licensing fees for HDMI, but there is also an "extra program" for small volumes (<10000 units iirc). In addition to that, from the current perspective there is also the possiblity that keeping the reference design the SoC manufacturer delivers (which, with a high probability, will include HDMI out) in that regard could be cheaper than designing/implementing a DP out.Don't get me wrong, I would choose DP over HDMI any time, but as you said, the end user price could weigh more as a deciding factor here.

@Binky

I know that this isn't a very constructive comment (and looking at the other comments, I'm in a minority here), but except the shoulder button placement and there are still two full size SD-Slots, I can't find anything I like about your case design. Especially having the middle section stand out that way is not very appealing to me. I know that you did that with more poketability in mind, but I doubt this will add much to that.

While I like the idea of including the speakers into the hinge area, I have doubts that this would be doable (size constraints).

Keyboard looks ok, but I do not think that we need a dedicated kill button, a key combo could suffice - the area between the nubs looks a bit "cramped" too, removing one button could "alleviate" that.

Having to "deal" with digital volume control on an every day basis I would like to propose to get rid of the volume rocker. As already discussed elsewhere most people don't really have a problem with the digital volume control itself but its software implementation. I can't really see any benefit in keeping it, but some advantages in replacing it (no seperated software and hardware volume levels, volume control through software, no need to remember the ideal volume rocker position, just the need to remember the step, etc).
 
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