Yet another pandora-sucessor concept


Binky

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Features of interest:

  • curvy bits that don't hurt your hands
  • slightly larger than current pandora, but thinned edges make up for it
  • second enter button for use with games ported from PCs
  • No modifier keys on the main controls, use shoulders instead
  • numbers are shifted (blue area of keyboard
  • control mode button to switch between mouse and game controls (or whatever)
  • more buttons
  • main keys are slightly larger than current pandora keys
  • white areas could be made of stamped metal?
  • these can be printed on A4 paper and should end up life-size




Addendum:

  • For "HDMI" read "displayport"
  • The shoulder buttons don't have to be side by side - what do other people think?
 
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ekianjo

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the two shoulder buttons are not positioned in a very practical way - you could hit them by mistake with this design.

On top of that we already know HDMI is out because of licensing issues.
 
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Binky

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  1. Would they be better one above the other?
  2. ED said he would be prepared to pay licensing fees, but I can see the arguments in favour of Displayport. Pretend it says "Video-out connector of your choice" :)
 

ekianjo

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  1. Would they be better one above the other?
  2. ED said he would be prepared to pay licensing fees, but I can see the arguments in favour of Displayport. Pretend it says "Video-out connector of your choice" :)
1. Yes, better, but only if they are large enough. You will always end up with an issue if you try to compromise the depth of the device while still wanting more than 2 buttons. In your design there's no space for two buttons on each other on each side.

2. It's not only about ED for HDMI, it's about "if everyone else willing to pay for it, i.e. an increased price for the device?" -> we already know the Pandora 1 is too expensive to grow a sizable market size, let's not make matters worse shall we?
 
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EssoAir

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Ya I like Displayport better. Also, I think the shoulder buttons should be one on top of the other. To add to that, t dont think the device needs speakers. They use power, space, and visual room but dont really add to the device. I personally would like the same size lid, but no speakers and a larger display. Also, is it capacative or resistive?
 

ekianjo

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Ya I like Displayport better. Also, I think the shoulder buttons should be one on top of the other. To add to that, t dont think the device needs speakers. They use power, space, and visual room but dont really add to the device. I personally would like the same size lid, but no speakers and a larger display. Also, is it capacative or resistive?
No speakers? Are you trolling again ? :)

Using headphones all the time is the best way to kill your ears in a couple of years. No way.

And let's not forget how difficult it would be to make demonstrations of the device to a group of people this way.
 
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Askarus

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There are 2 mistake:

Space has to be on the right, as it is on the Pandora. It makes typing more easy.

Fn should not be on the shoulder button.

Why?

You can't map Fn for Games.

So if I'd like to play Jedi Knight with 4 Shoulder Buttons I couldn't map it.
 

Grench

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Desperately needs a dedicated numeric buttons row - even if that means smaller keys overall.

I don't see a stylus slot in there?

Curved corners dictate a smaller display.  I'd like to see a 5.5" or even 6" screen based 'thin' device - square off the edges so that there is room for that display - which messes up your aesthetics.

I've never had an issue with the Pandora 'digging into my palms' - and haven't figured out how anyone -could- get the Pandora to do so.
 

ekianjo

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Desperately needs a dedicated numeric buttons row - even if that means smaller keys overall.

I don't see a stylus slot in there?

Curved corners dictate a smaller display.  I'd like to see a 5.5" or even 6" screen based 'thin' device - square off the edges so that there is room for that display - which messes up your aesthetics.

I've never had an issue with the Pandora 'digging into my palms' - and haven't figured out how anyone -could- get the Pandora to do so.
TOtally agree with all your points. And my hands never hurt from long usage periods with the Pandora either.
 

Binky

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OK, I''l go through and reply t'y'all:

is it capacative or resistive?
Doesn't make much difference to case design, but I prefer resistive.

Space has to be on the right, as it is on the Pandora. It makes typing more easy.
Putting it in the middle makes it accessible from both hands, but its probably down to personal preference. This thread may gain a poll at some point

Fn should not be on the shoulder button. Why? You can't map Fn for Games. So if I'd like to play Jedi Knight with 4 Shoulder Buttons I couldn't map it.
Ctrl and Shift are on shoulder buttons now, at its very convenient (IMO)

The idea of the 'control mode' button is to switch between (shoulders+gamepad+joysticks) and (mouse+scroll+modifiers)

Desperately needs a dedicated numeric buttons row - even if that means smaller keys overall. I don't see a stylus slot in there? Curved corners dictate a smaller display. I'd like to see a 5.5" or even 6" screen based 'thin' device - square off the edges so that there is room for that display - which messes up your aesthetics. I've never had an issue with the Pandora 'digging into my palms' - and haven't figured out how anyone -could- get the Pandora to do so.
My reasons for missing the dedicated numbers were that the modifier keys are now in a more convenient place (shoulders) and having to squish your finger up into the hinge is inconvenient. Where do you think the number row should go?

There should be a stylus slot there, I just forgot.

Its not just aesthetics. Its that having a small/rounded top and base makes it more pocketable, and reading / browsing while holding the pandora vertically puts that front corners resting directly in the middle of one's palms.

Could just be I'm holding it wrong :rolleyes:
 
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EssoAir

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Ya I like Displayport better. Also, I think the shoulder buttons should be one on top of the other. To add to that, t dont think the device needs speakers. They use power, space, and visual room but dont really add to the device. I personally would like the same size lid, but no speakers and a larger display. Also, is it capacative or resistive?
 
No speakers? Are you trolling again ? :)


Using headphones all the time is the best way to kill your ears in a couple of years. No way.


And let's not forget how difficult it would be to make demonstrations of the device to a group of people this way.
Why does everyone assume I'm trolling all the time? No! Im completely serious. But yes, demonstrations would become difficult. But I use headphones all the time, personally. And my ears are great!
 

Asiyura

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Features of interest:

  • curvy bits that don't hurt your hands
  • slightly larger than current pandora, but thinned edges make up for it
  • second enter button for use with games ported from PCs
  • No modifier keys on the main controls, use shoulders instead
  • numbers are shifted (blue area of keyboard
  • control mode button to switch between mouse and game controls (or whatever)
  • more buttons
  • main keys are slightly larger than current pandora keys
  • white areas could be made of stamped metal?
  • these can be printed on A4 paper and should end up life-size
Addendum:

  • For "HDMI" read "displayport"
  • The shoulder buttons don't have to be side by side - what do other people think?
  • I've never been hurt by pandora "angles" (that are a bit rounded).
  • I don't think making a pandora successor larger would be a good idea, or it must be just barely larger.
  • Why would I need a second enter button between the nubs when I should be able to map it to one of gaming buttons if needed?
  • Modifiers key must not be used on gaming control buttons (for the reason said before).
  • I just hate "virtual numeric keypads", I never used them on any of my laptops because there is a real numerical row on the keyboard.
  • Control switching button is ok, but it sould be an option in a menu invoked from "pandora" button, to lessen the number of buttons between the nubs.
  • Four shoulder buttons would be nice, I agree.
  • I don't think larger buttons would be useful, but a better design would be useful. I found the ones used for pandora keymat a bit too rounded.
  • Metal parts, if done correctly, could make the device more rugged, but there are chances that it would make it heavier too.
  • Mini DisplayPort, yes!
  • Shoulder buttons side by side can be okay, if done well. The current ones aren't.
  • We need hardware speakers, they're quite useful for musical alarms, metronome application, demoing the device, multiplayer games, GPS vocal navigation with Navit and many other possible use. (I personally use pandora to listen to music in the bathroom)
  • If a larger screen is used, it should be 16:10, that the best compromise between "modern" video (16:9) and old school videogames (mostly 4:3). And I don't think "full HD" screen wold be useful, more pixels = less processing power available per pixel.
  • As said, the spacebar needs to be on the right side of the keyboard, central space bar are only useful for 10 fingers typing, not thumbs typing. And most of us are used to laptop keyboards, with a row for numbers, physical numeric buttons are required.
I added my opinions to what has already been said by others.
 
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Tenka

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I don't like the all around pop-out lip shape, because it's probably sandwiched layers of casing which could be easier to break apart.

I really really like the side-by-side shoulder buttons.  There are lots of ways they could still feel comfortable to people, one set could stick out a little more than the other.  Then again though, side-by-side shoulder buttons would be harder to press all of at once, and pressing both R1-R2 or L1-L2 at the same time comes up a good bit in Playstation games.

And I like it heavier, I want it much heavier.  That's not impractical in general, it's just impractical for many people besides me probably.
 

EssoAir

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Ooooo! I love 16x10 displays! But in order to save costs, I think we should go with the cheapest display that suits our needs. This likely (but not necessarily) means a 5-7" 1080p 16x9 screen. While I'd love a 16x10, those are going to be more expensive because less people are ordering them
 
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Binky

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The drawing above is 15x9cm (but could be scaled)

@Tenka: what do you mean by pop-out lid shape?

Do people object strongly the having ctrl and shift mapped to shoulder buttons then?

I still can't see what problem this presents if theres a convenient way to change the keymap.

central space bar are only useful for 10 fingers typing, not thumbs typing.
I disagree. If you print/cut out the top image, the spacebar is perfectly within range of both thumbs, and is more convenient than the bottom-right corner

Are you about to shoot down my suggestion of putting a row of number keys below the game controls too?
 
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Asiyura

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I disagree. If you print/cut out the top image, the spacebar is perfectly within range of both thumbs, and is more convenient than the bottom-right corner
IMHO, it's taking too much space that could be better used.
Are you about to shoot down my suggestion of putting a row of number keys below the game controls too?
Nope, the row between hinge and gaming controls was conceptually a good idea, but not good in reality :p
 
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EssoAir

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I really dislike space bars being on one side. I hqve used center, left side, and right side and I really like center the best. WOAH! What if you could switch out the keyboard like the TI N-Spire (http://education.ti.com/en/asia/~/media/Education/images/rightcolumn/lifestyle/graphing/84comp.jpg) That would be so cool. So the one it comes with it like tge iCP2 (or whatever tbe most basic one is) but you can buy more keyboards with different key layouts (I hear you, german ppls) or more gaming controls or a trackpad+keyboard. ANNNND ED could release a board and button pack that would allow people to make thier own custom keyboards so, say if I want 16 shift keys for whatever reason, I could build a custom keyboard to fit my needs.
 

levi

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I don't have a problem with having two shoulder buttons side by side. They could have different textures if confusion arises on their use. But having FN on the shoulders gets my vote - I've often thought of sacrificing ctrl on the right shoulder for Fn, but haven't got round to hacking the keymap yet.


On the other hand, the current Pandora does dig into my palms when typing on it, and it does become noticeable after 15 minutes of typing or so. I put it down to the thickness of the bottom corners, so Binky's design might help with that by being more rounded both when viewed from the top and when viewed from the side.


I do think the lack of number buttons will give you problems when it comes to finding homes for all those esoteric symbols we currently have access to. I couldn't honestly sacrifice any of the symbol buttons on the current Pandora - I think I've had to use them all on occasion.


Oh, and while it's nice to have an extra enter button, I'd have thought it be better assigned to one of the ABXY buttons, given how common the 'arrow keys+enter' mapping is on PC games. That means you'd have to shift either home/end or pg up/down to the middle island, and I can't honestly decide which should go, but there you go.
 
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