Wrist Strap, Case, Expansion?

[droneb]

im thinking into making a pandora add-on to push up some rumble, plus L/R 2 buttons, and hopefully making a better grip (since the pandora is so squareish).

i believe that would be a easy task using som epoxy resing putty, the only hard part i see is that it will be hard to get the connections to the outside.
im thinking on some sort of exits through frontal SD ports or maybe drill a hole and get a 2mm 3phonic (3 conns and gnd) as a connector.

The idea I had when I asked about expansion was to make a box that would connect to the USB port at the back and maybe clip onto the front or into the battery port to keep it secure. Some sort of ribbon cable could connect the USB port to the inside, where you could put a 2.5" HDD (or 1.8"), or stuff in some other USB-based devices. Will be easier to figure out how to make a case for it once the Pandora's in our hands. Could also move the battery to the bottom of the box, using the battery bay as part of the attachment area.

I drew a quick sketch of my idea. I liked your extra button idea, so I hope you don't mind me putting it on there.

Link if the image doesn't show: image

I actually tied my F200's stylus to my GP2X's lanyard hole.

Kinda like the one they sell for the Wiz? http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-d1-49-en-70-2z5b.html

Not sure what that thing hanging off it is, actually. I thought it was a pen or something.

MEN! you just came up with the same think i was making!!.

just that instead of making it all, i would try to adapt a 15USD HDD case i dont use anymore, then add the xtra buttons and the rumble pack
all in a single add on. the issue here is how much current are we going to get to feed all of this.

im also worried about how to get a Disc burner to work up with the panda, since im a Backup Maniac this would be a very good use if everything worked perfectly

just wanted to fit some of these stuff to the panda

 

[-Tj-]

MEN! you just came up with the same think i was making!!.

Was that a positive or negative reaction?

just that instead of making it all, i would try to adapt a 15USD HDD case i dont use anymore, then add the xtra buttons and the rumble pack
all in a single add on. the issue here is how much current are we going to get to feed all of this.

im also worried about how to get a Disc burner to work up with the panda, since im a Backup Maniac this would be a very good use if everything worked perfectly

One thing I thought might help the power thing was to pass the battery power through the expansion case, or attach a separate battery to it. I've no hardware experience so I'm not sure if this would work or not. Relocating the battery to the bottom of the expansion case could allow the expansion case to attach to the battery cover rails (?).

From the mould creation time thread, EvilDragon mentioned that there are L2 and R2 solder pads for more buttons. I suppose you could drill through the case and wire up the extra buttons (or add some sort of plug to connect it to the expansion case).

I think it might be fun for modders who wanted to add extra stuff to have a kind of easily-attachable fitted case they could mod. Maybe there could be a grid on the inside of the case that could be cut to fit parts. A USB cable connected to a board with solder pads on it would be helpful, too. Adding buttons to it would make it even better. But this is all just me having fun dreaming.

For a disk burner, perhaps a self-powered external might work? Then all you'd need to do is make sure the kernel supports it, I think. I have a 5.25" external burner that I'd like to test on Pandora once it arrives.

Edit: lol WOW you wanna add a lot to it! That'd be great if you can get all that to fit into one case. Stuff I think I'd add to it, maybe GPS, 2.5" or 1.8" HDD, extra buttons, maybe a couple more USB ports (I have 2 on my laptop and it's too little), perhaps a 3G modem...

I was also thinking about adding some other stuff to the main case, like an internal camera or two, similar to the way the DSi did it. Looking at the Pandora assembly video, I'm not sure a camera would fit in the hinge area, but there does seem to be room in the screen/speaker cover.

 

[MrBlais]

Are you destined to murder your battery?

Are you skilled in soldery?

 

[droneb]

XD, Batt thing is somehow scary thing since the day i almost blow up a laptop batt (shorted the power pins and got some smokey)

and since the pandas Batt seems like a Laptop Batt (on Steroids). i dont want to mess with the power of the pandoras box.

by the other way i would try to push a 5v source somewhere to this add-on. but the weight would be too much, so its gotta be just 3V
(talking of AA batts).

i guess i wont add the RFID reader right now (ordered the panda to get less weight on my pockets and im gonna end pushing more ).

 

[MWeston]

XD, Batt thing is somehow scary thing since the day i almost blow up a laptop batt (shorted the power pins and got some smokey)

and since the pandas Batt seems like a Laptop Batt (on Steroids). i dont want to mess with the power of the pandoras box.

You can take a screwdriver or heavy gauge wire and run them right over the battery terminals and short it out. It cuts the power in like 0.1 seconds. I had to do this repeatedly to test the circuit on prototype batteries a long time ago to make sure they were safe. It was scary the first time but it made such a tiny little spark before disconnecting internally that it is not at all scary to test anymore.

 

[-Tj-]

lol My solder skills are getting better, but I'm not 100% confident in them yet. But as I've said, this is just me kinda brainstorming, having fun with the idea behind Pandora.

My 3D skills are fairly decent, so if I feel up to it I might someday try doing a prototype box and have it printed somewhere, like how Pandora's process has been. I don't envision this to be a permanent add-on to Pandora, but more of a possible docking station of sorts. Something you could add when you're at home or on the go but need a little extra something. I don't plan on carrying it in my pocket, my pockets are already full , so this would be bagged.

You guys are right tho... messing with the battery is SCARY. :lol: I've seen those battery explosion videos- dangerous for sure. Heck, I was even kinda spooked when doing the Pandora mod on my PSP's battery.

 

[droneb]

well, i did that, and it seems that the batt didnt like it too much, actually it smoked and never worked again.

i was doing a MC flash to jump the nasty issue of the Dell Batts but i ended up killing the gauge board.

learning to solder can be a pain in the fingers but it is usefull, then you buy a soldermate (sergent) then some fumes xtractor

and at the end u buy a full solder and reworking station im still saving for the last one

from the news released by Last Dragon there are new ideas to make the addon

this would be an option.

(SORRY im useless at digital arts, ill upload a hand drawn one when i get my printer back this was made on paint, and on an old pad mouse.)

 

[Grench]

May as well dream...

Building a powered USB hub into it - great. Any solution like this is going to need to connect to the USB-A on the back. Right? A USB-A connector end with barely a nub extending from the case with a ribbon cable wrapping back into the expansion lid would be about ideal IMHO.

Where to get power from... Tap into the main battery at the plug or pads where it connects to the Pandora. Use the guts of a 7 port hub. Put a switch into the expansion so that it only turns on power draw IF the USB-A on the Pandora is active. Also have a switch on it somewhere so that you have the option of turning all this extra junk off.

Shape the new lid like a wedge, thicker in the back. Keeps a more streamlined style.

Under the front edge of the expansion lid put 3 SDHC card slots (only accessible with the back removed). Run these off of 3 of the 7 USB connections.

If you need rumble, link it through one of the 7 USB ports as a USB sound card and a set of cross-overs to limit it to just very low frequencies - put in two on the far outside edges for 'stereo rumble'.

Put the guts of a 2 button USB laser mouse into the center of it. Run the buttons to extensions going back left and right beyond the battery door to the rear. This way you can move the whole unit on a table or your leg and have it move the cursor on the screen to match. Bonus points if you can get the scroll wheel incorporated somehow.

Run the remaining 2 USB out the back as powered USB A slots.

Make the whole thing only add 2mm to the front and 6mm to the back on the bottom of the Pandora. Remember that it can actually extend past the back edge of the existing battery door between and to the sides of the clips AND use the space that would have been the old cover. Would likely need to build in a support to keep the battery from crushing all these bits.

OK, so the above would probably cost as much as a second OpenPandora console - but I prefaced this with 'Dream'.

 

[lulzfish]

So at the bottom of the last page, MWeston said something like:

"The battery has short-circuit protection, it won't explode if you short it, it will shut itself off magically"

Does the battery turn back on, like when you try to charge it? Or does it just shut off and wait 5 minutes or ...?

 

[-Tj-]

@droneb Dev:
Looks like you've got the parts all thought out already.

I wonder if the USB ports will fit in the battery compartment. It looked a little tight in there in some of the videos.

The pager motors are a great idea! Like Grench said, wiring them up to work on low frequencies will probably do the trick.

@Grench, one thing I'm not sure about... If you wire up the motors to look like USB speakers, won't that disable the internal speakers? Under Windows that's what happens when USB speakers are plugged in, anyway. That's a lotta stuff you could pack in there, but these are dreams, after all!

The idea I had was centered around a USB HDD board from a gutted USB 2.0 external case, and possibly the guts from a Targus mini hub (something like this, perhaps). I'm still trying to think of where the ports would go without interrupting grip. The front is one option, as is the back, but the sides don't seem like such a great idea. As for power, I'm still wondering. If a HDD is inside, and the USB port on the back of Pandora has the same power output as a laptop, then there's no way the HDD will run with any other USB devices attached, at least not without some other source of power... so I'm still wondering if there's some way to tap into more power. Pull from the mini USB, perhaps?

Edit:

So at the bottom of the last page, MWeston said something like:

You can take a screwdriver or heavy gauge wire and run them right over the battery terminals and short it out. It cuts the power in like 0.1 seconds. I had to do this repeatedly to test the circuit on prototype batteries a long time ago to make sure they were safe. It was scary the first time but it made such a tiny little spark before disconnecting internally that it is not at all scary to test anymore.

Does the battery turn back on, like when you try to charge it? Or does it just shut off and wait 5 minutes or ...?

I completely missed that! That's a good question, does the battery just disconnect internally permanently? While we're on the subject of the battery, would there be some way to tap into it for extra power, or through the board?

 

[MWeston]

Does the battery turn back on, like when you try to charge it? Or does it just shut off and wait 5 minutes or ...?

It reconnects as soon as the short is removed. If you try to draw more than about 3.25A from the battery it also disconnects until the load is reduced. This should never happen under normal operation.

 

[Grench]

@Grench, one thing I'm not sure about... If you wire up the motors to look like USB speakers, won't that disable the internal speakers? Under Windows that's what happens when USB speakers are plugged in, anyway. That's a lotta stuff you could pack in there, but these are dreams, after all!

Main speakers on/off or USB - that would be a driver switch wouldn't it?

I'm still wondering if there's some way to tap into more power. Pull from the mini USB, perhaps?

We're talking about a replacement -battery- door, right? One that sits on top of a real big battery... Only take signal from the USB. Use the battery for power. The battery will either have contacts or a plug on it. We're able to swap these in and out, so it isn't going to be soldered. It should be just a matter of connecting to it and then having some way to turn it off when the Pandora is off (using the USB power as signal?) All of this is assuming the battery can handle the Pandora's draw + 7*500mA ~ 3.500A potential of being drawn into and fed out of the USB hub.

Yes, it would decrease the battery time from 10 to 3-6 hours or something like that depending on how much of this stuff gets crammed into it.

And in a Doctor Evil voice:
That's what you get for having a 160GB (total 5 SDHC @32GB) double rumbling pocketable game console with a freekin' laser (mouse) on it.

 

[Grench]

Does the battery turn back on, like when you try to charge it? Or does it just shut off and wait 5 minutes or ...?

It reconnects as soon as the short is removed. If you try to draw more than about 3.25A from the battery it also disconnects until the load is reduced. This should never happen under normal operation.

What is the max draw of the stock hardware? I.e. what overhead is left before we hit the 3.25A limit?

My evil 7 port powered USB hub with lasers may have to be re-dreamed... Although the 3 SDHC cards and the laser mouse won't pull anywhere near 500mA each... the twin rumblers might come close. The two powered USB-A outputs would need 500mA clearance...

And no. I have no intention to make such a Frankenstein out of my Pandora. Just exploring the limits of imagination and theoretical hardware hacking.

 

[droneb]

@TJ,

my actual HUB (In the photo seems to be smaller than targus one)

im rethinking about the Hub and it will be better to fit it poiinting at the back (so no Mem Stick Sticks Out towards the user)
it has 3 ports one side and i expect to leave one internal to the addon casing to connect another aparathus (im still working on it, sort of a IRDA controler/2.4Ghz Tranceiver, or an Accelerometer, GPS,GSM Modem etc. depending of future uses of the panda)
3 ports is more than enough from and for my uses.(i have to live with it my laptop only offers 3 ports and i hate to carry the HUB (Even if it is so small)

it should be conected to the expernal USB port, (and ive got a Connector Ribbon Solution, looks like the nano BT but rolling a buss downwards)
about the L/R2 buttons, since we are still not sure how to connect them, i expect to make the conector so it could go out to the EXT port (if useable) or towards the inner of the panda (where the battery holds (seems to have some openings enough to fit signal cables so no drilling.).

the shaping of the both sides should be round to make the panda more ergonomic and enhance the grip.
and as being roung it could hold about 2 AA batts enough to feed the 2 hungry pager motors.

for all of that, i expect to use up some bendable wires PET bottle cuttings and Rally Epoxy putty.

the HD would be a later add on since i havent seen any External 1"8 HD that implements its connectors. but i believe it will use the Pandas USB Power so no need of extra (i would take a guess and if the HD Fits On the Batt Space and if i find an External 1"8 HD case ill be modding it for sure)

i dont know why but i look at grench post and it seems more like a joke than a real effort once the panda is out. (who would need that much stuff in a portable console/netbook)

 

[-Tj-]

Main speakers on/off or USB - that would be a driver switch wouldn't it?

It would likely be a driver switch, I'm sure. But if you route the sound through USB and are using that to power the motors for rumble, unless you have another set of speakers attached to it, you won't get sound either through Pandora's speakers or headphone jack... that is if the Linux drivers work the same as Windows' drivers do.

We're talking about a replacement -battery- door, right? One that sits on top of a real big battery... Only take signal from the USB. Use the battery for power. The battery will either have contacts or a plug on it. We're able to swap these in and out, so it isn't going to be soldered. It should be just a matter of connecting to it and then having some way to turn it off when the Pandora is off (using the USB power as signal?) All of this is assuming the battery can handle the Pandora's draw + 7*500mA ~ 3.500A potential of being drawn into and fed out of the USB hub.

I was thinking about that before others jumped in about messing with the battery. I thought it might be kinda cool if you could fit the expansion case to the battery well, then putting the battery into the bottom of the expansion case instead. The expansion case would have some kind of plug or post that connects to the battery contacts in Pandora, so you could still charge the battery as usual, but the expansion case borrows power from the battery/power cable. I've no idea how this would work, but that was one idea. :lol:

What make/model is your hub? The only one I've found smaller than that Targus one is the super mini 4-port hub they had for a while. Seems like they discontinued it.

im rethinking about the Hub and it will be better to fit it poiinting at the back (so no Mem Stick Sticks Out towards the user)
it has 3 ports one side and i expect to leave one internal to the addon casing to connect another aparathus (im still working on it, sort of a IRDA controler/2.4Ghz Tranceiver, or an Accelerometer, GPS,GSM Modem etc. depending of future uses of the panda)
3 ports is more than enough from and for my uses.(i have to live with it my laptop only offers 3 ports and i hate to carry the HUB (Even if it is so small)

I know what you mean... My laptop only has 2 ports, and I have to use hubs to connect anything more than a mouse and tablet. I'll be new to Linux when I get Pandora, does it have any good IRDA apps? I could use a universal remote app...

The buttons thing is probably something we could think about better once we have it in our hands. Hence why when I get it one of the first things I'll probably do is take it apart. :lol: But... carefully... I will play with it first. haha

I hadn't looked up 1.8" HDD enclosures before I wrote my post, but I just checked and they do sell them for about $27 or so. Seems to be about the same as 2.5" enclosures. Link.

i dont know why but i look at grench post and it seems more like a joke than a real effort once the panda is out. (who would need that much stuff in a portable console/netbook)

He's having fun brainstorming with us.
Personally I like to think a bit more on the "doable" side, but I can respect big ideas. Heck, I think my case idea might be a bit crazy. :lol:

And no. I have no intention to make such a Frankenstein out of my Pandora. Just exploring the limits of imagination and theoretical hardware hacking.

See?

Grench: BUILD IT. I want to see Pandora with fricking lasers!

 

[droneb]

XD Imagination?

i wasnt using it very much but lets see.

to keep portability plus usability, i would speed up my research on HMD stuff and make it HHUD (HumanHUD), then Embed a Hi Res mini camera right next to it so. then plug up a Image Analisis DSP and make it live stream Augmented Reality, build up a Interaction Glove with its own Movement Processor and feedback sensing, atach some Military grade IR NV ZM Radar and Laser Terrain Mapping, get some Big Bad Boy Battery or a Generator, and BioSensors and biometrics.

now for Comm you could get a nice Satelital Uplink plus a Long and Short Range RF and Cellular Band Freq Sniffer.

(round it to 25KG in a Kevlar Neoprene and built in Heatsink,EMC EMP shield all in a ergonomic back pack)

and the last but not less

it has to get the ability to run jump and spit.



XD ok back to the former vanilla idea.

it seems that hacking an old used small Ipod or Ipodlike that has a Harddrive would make it as long as it would be usable by USB, plus it would surely have embedded Batt, maybe a broken display one could be cheap?, anyway it would have to be striped off its case.

 

[-Tj-]

Let's go nuts!

Link if that doesn't work.

Hmm... small PMP sounds like a decent idea, especially since it'd have its own power source. Would the Sansa line work with Linux out of the box? I don't recall iPods working as mass storage devices out of the box, but that's just word of mouth. I don't own an iPod.

 

[droneb]

Let's go nuts!

Link if that doesn't work.

Hmm... small PMP sounds like a decent idea, especially since it'd have its own power source. Would the Sansa line work with Linux out of the box? I don't recall iPods working as mass storage devices out of the box, but that's just word of mouth. I don't own an iPod.

btw what d u use 2 sketch?

and u forgot the anti water in the sensitive spot of the pandora. some waterproof undies made of epoxy
for the panda would be enough for it

Confirmed: the pandora has a sensitive spot and needs Epoxy undies to cover it

 

[Grench]

Actually, what I suggested isn't all that impractical - if someone had the time to do it. It could all be mocked up on a bench easy enough. Creating it as a molded/marketable all in one product - that would be outside my abilities.

7 port USB hub
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817120006&cm_re=7_port_usb-_-17-120-006-_-Product

I have one. They're about as small as you can make a 7 port version comfortably. In the above ideas, strip the case, de-solder the ports and replace them with 90* internal USB headers or wires as appropriate. Any tall board features would have to be moved off-board or put on 90* stands to get the svelt form factor of a production setup. I haven't cracked mine open.

Crack open 3 SDHC USB2.0 thumb drives - gut them, pull off the USB connector and hard wire the little internal boards and card slots to the hub board.

Find a thumb-sized USB audio device - crack it, gut it, use it to trigger the rumblers.
OR have the cable that wraps to the back of the Pandora also connect to the expansion port - there is an audio out signal there to be had.

For the lasers, buy a mogo mouse, gut it and mount the hardware in the new battery cover. Heck, it could even connect via bluetooth and save a USB port for something else.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826639005&cm_re=micro_mouse-_-26-639-005-_-Product

For the 2nd shoulder buttons, skip the solder points on the Pandora board and use the left/right buttons on the Mogo - extended out to the corners so you can get to them.

There are also USB thumb-drive like accelerometers and ATSC video tuners and GPS - all of which could be cracked open and scavanged.

All of the components for my ideas exist - scavaging them from commercial products would be costly. Many of them would require micro-soldering equipment and expertise to adapt.

However, if added case depth were ignored and you're willing to have a Frankendora - you could skip cracking cases and just duct tape it all together. All of it exists - putting it all together neatly in a commercial grade product - that could be a real challenge.

 

[danielliu88888]

Let's go nuts!

Link if that doesn't work.

Hmm... small PMP sounds like a decent idea, especially since it'd have its own power source. Would the Sansa line work with Linux out of the box? I don't recall iPods working as mass storage devices out of the box, but that's just word of mouth. I don't own an iPod.

the next pandora alternative thread! but you forgot the cup holder and windows key.