Will DX12 improve things for gamers?

[PokeParadox]

Oh sorry guys forgot the package manager contained every single bit of software ever created or even conceived. In fact no one would ever need to add additional respositries or compile from source code ever. If they do that must make them stupid.


Man guys like you are so annoying in the I.T world you get so defensive that someone has a different opinion. You have even gone so far to personally insult me over it. You probably lecture everyone how open source is always better than closed source as well.

The average user would be fine with the extensive catalogue of software that is available from the package manager.


The average user would be fine with the fact that all the installed programs update themselves.

The average user is uncomfortable installing any OS, no matter how easy or straight forward it is.


You are strawmanning arguements. No one is saying that it's never necessary to compile packages, but it's not normally necessary.

 

[Binky]

I assume that your experience with Windows is only at the User end. There is nothing wrong with that, but in the business world (especially in the large multi national enterprises) the IT Security is a religion, and the followers of that religion are all the Share holders, CTOs, Managers etc. There are even International standards like ISO/IEC 27001.<...> I will not go in details, but in the enterprise there is a policy, that needs to be signed on paper first by the bosses, and then by the bosses of the bosses and so on, before it is applied on the Users and on the Computers.

I don't see how excessive beurocracy explains poor handling of custom setup scripts and poor handling of standardised USB devices.

Your work computer is booting 5 minutes maybe because the main high speed circuit to the Domain Controller is down and at the moment it is rerouted through a low speed backup line.

In that case, the high-speed connection has been broken for several years

I can also ensure you that things like File access permissions for the Windows Administrators are the next great thing since the sliced bread and the gummy bears.

I'm talking about programs where they tell you that "this operation has been canceled due to restrictions placed on your computer by the administrator" when you try to list the contents of a folder you do have access to, but then go on to correctly list them after you OK the error message.


Or when restrictions are implemented by preventing right-clicking in the file manager. Using a different file manager (still as a normal user) results in more access to the networked filesystem.

And the whole "Ctrl-Alt-Del" thing to reach a login prompt is stupid

 
Again security policy. It the most cases it is configured to lock your screen on 5 minutes inactivity without killing any background processes.

I don't follow. Automatic screen locking is trivial to setup in every desktop environment (win/lin/mac) I've ever tried to set it up in, and has been for ages. Whats that got to do with the "Ctrl-Alt-Del to login" thing? From a UI design perspective, there should never be a screen which offers the user neither any information, nor any options.

 

[Binky]

I'll also say that I have never had to compile a package before installing it, apart from a few weird cases where I wanted to play with something still under development.

A set of Debian DVDs or a fast internet connection provides the vast majority of required tools - and things like synaptic are really quite easy to use:

Enter password --> search --> select --> press 'go' --> wait --> done

 

[Ziz]

[...]

Linux is a far superior desktop!

 

[Binky]

[...]

Linux is a far superior desktop!

Yes, you said that.

 

[Silent-Hunter]

Open source would always be better, but too many people refuse to open theirs.

 

[Askarus]

This discussion is pretty fun.

Here are some facts.

1: The GPU on my Laptop is too old. The official AMD Catalyst drier does not support it any more.

The legacy Driver does not support latest Xorg.

If I don't want to use an old System I have to use the open source driver.

But the open source driver lacks some features and I can't play the games I would like to play.

2: I didn't recognize so much difference in the GUI compared XFCE and Windows.

3: After one week of using Linux I asked myself how I ever could use Windows.

It boots so much faster.

I have the full control over my system.

4: Features of my laptop are not supported like the volume slider or some hardware buttons.

5: On Windows I could run every exe file if I needed some tools from the internet.

Most things run under Wine but some don't.

6: Only using the open source software makes your life harder when it comes to work with people at university where some Windows software is standard.

My Fazit is:

1:

I prefer Linux as I want to be forced to know my system (Arch user).

I want to choose any set up my GUI.

I like the open source philosophy.

I want to do what's possible with the open software.

2:

When it comes to Gaming my needs are not satisfied.

I don't care who's fault it is that the Games do not run. They don't! Result is the same for me.

For now I can't play much I want.

The argument that the games that don't run are evil and I should not support them anyways does not count for me either.

My brother plays some and when we meet I really would like to play with him. For now we have to play what works for me, too but that sucks.

3:

When I'll buy a new Laptop I'll get one with several HDD/mSATA slots to install Linux for everything and Windows for everything that does not work.

I don't want to become a fundamentalist who isolates himself.

Some stuff requires windows and that's a fact! I can limit myself or get that OS as my second one and be happy.

 

[Ziz]

@Askarus:

Old notebooks don't get new drivers for Windows Vista/7/8/10, too. So you will have no driver (neither open nor closed) or you have to use Windows XP.

So you could do the same if you _need_ the propietary driver: Install an old Linux with old Xorg, which supports the old AMD driver.

You could even make a dualboot system with a recent work linux and an old gaming linux with better working driver.

In contrast to Windows XP you could even use the same home folder and configurations if needed.

 

[ThinkPad]

In that case, the high-speed connection has been broken for several years

Or bad network design or lazy Admin...

I'm talking about programs where they tell you that "this operation has been canceled due to restrictions placed on your computer by the administrator" when you try to list the contents of a folder you do have access to, but then go on to correctly list them after you OK the error message. Or when restrictions are implemented by preventing right-clicking in the file manager. Using a different file manager (still as a normal user) results in more access to the networked filesystem.

Dude, feel free to refer my services to your boss in order to solve all the issues in his network   I am promising to take a few English classes in advance.

Whats that got to do with the "Ctrl-Alt-Del to login" thing? From a UI design perspective, there should never be a screen which offers the user neither any information, nor any options.

Well, it is called Secure Logon for a reason. just another layer of the whole "security thing"

 

[WizardStan]

Whats that got to do with the "Ctrl-Alt-Del to login" thing?

It triggers a system request in the kernel itself which loads winlogon and prevents any other process from accessing the keyboard. When you hit ctrl-alt-del in WinNT based systems no process can read what you are typing until winlogon says it is ok. Specifically it's required when you first boot up to prevent another process from somehow loading itself up before login and pretending to be the login prompt. As far as I know there's no equivalent in Linux making Windows technically safer in that regard though I've never heard of this happening in the real world so it could have been paranoid security.The particular key combination is legacy from when ctrl-alt-del was handled by the bios to perform a soft reset, most users were already familiar with it and it served to enhance the user experience by giving it more functionality.

 

[kasp]

I think the Linux community does far more to push users away from it than anything else.  The zealousness and arrogance of a lot of the members of the community it's a complete turn off for some people.

I have had no joke someone in real life almost get into a punch up with me about it because when entering this topic I said "I don't care, I don't want to talk about it" as I really didn't want to get into the discussion and he sat there basically calling me a fuckwit for not giving a shit about the future of computing.  I was having a night out on the town with some friends and this guy who doesn't know me from a bar of soap after finding out I am in IT decides to do that. The amount of times at conferences you get the same amount of zealousness from people is pretty bad as well.  Apart from at conferences I can't just tell them to fuck off.  (Or well I shouldn't)

I never said Linux desktop wasn't fine to use I just don't think it has the same amount of polish and features of other OS's. However that is to be expected since they don't make billions of dollars off it.  I like open source but you also need proprietary software because quite frankly with out it there would be a metric shit tonne of IP theft in the IT world and there would be a lot less jobs and investment.

As someone else was talking about boot times I think I should clear something up, if you have a 5 minute boot time that would most likely be caused by security policies on the domain.  I have seen domain security policies where an individual machine has had to load up 200+ policies.  These are usually in extremely large domains and well, also a slow network will slow this process down considerably and any issues you pretty much have to wait for a timeout which slows things further.

It's probably been 6 or so months since I last tried Linux I should give it another go and I will report my results bugs and all.  Which flavour should I go with?  Ubuntu?  Although I wasn't a big fan of unity when it was released.   I guess I would let you guys decide to maximize the success rate.

 

[Klumpen]

It's probably been 6 or so months since I last tried Linux I should give it another go and I will report my results bugs and all.  Which flavour should I go with?  Ubuntu?  Although I wasn't a big fan of unity when it was released.   I guess I would let you guys decide to maximize the success rate.

Go with Linux Mint (I prefer the version with the MATE desktop preinstalled).

It's superior to most other Ubuntuesque distros, but the Unbuntu packages work out of the box.

It's great for gaming too if you have an Nvidia card, probably with ATI too if you got the right driver package (people here should know more about this).

Imho it's more user friendly than any Windows I ever used. I never had to compile anything and "Synaptic" is a blessing, because it makes installing applications and keeping them up-to-date extremely easy.

I've got a dual-boot setup with WinXP for games that don't work well with the graphics drivers I've got preinstalled in my quite old version of Mint (have to install the new one soon).

 

[notaz]

It triggers a system request in the kernel itself which loads winlogon

.. where all spyware, keyloggers and viruses live

 

[kasp]

It's probably been 6 or so months since I last tried Linux I should give it another go and I will report my results bugs and all.  Which flavour should I go with?  Ubuntu?  Although I wasn't a big fan of unity when it was released.   I guess I would let you guys decide to maximize the success rate.

Go with Linux Mint (I prefer the version with the MATE desktop preinstalled).

It's superior to most other Ubuntuesque distros, but the Unbuntu packages work out of the box.

It's great for gaming too if you have an Nvidia card, probably with ATI too if you got the right driver package (people here should know more about this).

Imho it's more user friendly than any Windows I ever used. I never had to compile anything and "Synaptic" is a blessing, because it makes installing applications and keeping them up-to-date extremely easy.

I've got a dual-boot setup with WinXP for games that don't work well with the graphics drivers I've got preinstalled in my quite old version of Mint (have to install the new one soon).

Yeah I liked mint, think I have tried MATE as well as cinnamon.  I do see the same thing happening as what happens every time I start using it and it's alright but then I need to bail and go back to my regular windows desktop as it doesn't suit enough of my needs.

 

[kasp]

Oh sorry guys forgot the package manager contained every single bit of software ever created or even conceived. In fact no one would ever need to add additional respositries or compile from source code ever. If they do that must make them stupid.


Man guys like you are so annoying in the I.T world you get so defensive that someone has a different opinion. You have even gone so far to personally insult me over it. You probably lecture everyone how open source is always better than closed source as well.

The average user would be fine with the extensive catalogue of software that is available from the package manager.


The average user would be fine with the fact that all the installed programs update themselves.

The average user is uncomfortable installing any OS, no matter how easy or straight forward it is.


You are strawmanning arguements. No one is saying that it's never necessary to compile packages, but it's not normally necessary.

How is that straw manning?  I was pretty much told I was doing things wrong and was stupid because I had to compile from souce a fair bit as well as adding repositories.

Straw manning is when you build an argument up for someone but they did that on their own.  I was just pointing out the ridiculousness of their assertions.

There is no average user, but people do want to install whatever they want and they will look past the package manager. 

 

[TrashyMG]

So this thread is telling me DX12 is.. Linux is awesome! and that some people are more right than others. Got it.

 

[Klumpen]

So this thread is telling me DX12 is.. Linux is awesome! and that some people are more right than others. Got it.

 Well, sorry for the derailment.

DX12 is primarily a selling point for Windows 10, of course the discussion went in this direction, I guess I'm guilty.

I just don't like such company policies and would have liked to have DX10 for my WinXP or even better more OpenGL games in general.

 

[Yoyobuae]

"Will DX12 improve things for gamers?"

Does it even matter anymore? :rolleyes:

The era of looking forward to the latest greatest PC game titles is long gone for me at least. There's the occasional indie title that catches my attention, but I simply give up on them due to "Windows only".

It's not like there's a lack of games to play, between consoles, Pandora and even Android there's more than enough for me.

I'm sure that if today one asks a random young "gamer" the answer to the above question could probably be: "What's DX12?" :lol:

 

[WizardStan]

It's probably been 6 or so months since I last tried Linux I should give it another go

Don't bother, if you tried everything and didn't like anything 6 months ago you won't find anything new today. Especially if you don't get that cybercurse lifted, you'll just have all the same weird problems as before.

 

[kasp]

It's probably been 6 or so months since I last tried Linux I should give it another go

Don't bother, if you tried everything and didn't like anything 6 months ago you won't find anything new today. Especially if you don't get that cybercurse lifted, you'll just have all the same weird problems as before.

Well I have a bootlble USB with Mint all ready to go.  I was just configuring some last items before I start.

It's not that I didn't like it, I just never found it as good as windows in getting my job done as well as gaming.  I am a tinkerer so issues don't bother me that much I just can't see how an average user would handle them.