Will DX12 improve things for gamers?

[kasp]

If you have used windows 10 I don't think they will need to be any bribing.

You can use it for free right now to test the waters and everyone with 7 or 8 has a free upgrade path to it.

 

[Silent-Hunter]

I use, and am used to, CDE. I tried Windows 10, but it's just so different than what I am used to I almost immediately disliked it.

 

[ekianjo]

You can use it for free right now to test the waters and everyone with 7 or 8 has a free upgrade path to it.

First EVEN if Windows 10 was better and all it just would not be enough to distract Linux users, because of the following:

- it's full to the head of DRMs

- it's still proprietary software all the way

- spying and NSA collaboration

- lack of a proper terminal

- lack of trust in Microsoft in general

- need of antivirus protection (and therefore bloatware)

so I'm not sure who you are trying to convince.

Instead of trying to convince people to buy in a closed platform, it's way better to help people to use a free platform and help that platform become even better.

But hey, choose your fights, as people say.

 

[kasp]

You can use it for free right now to test the waters and everyone with 7 or 8 has a free upgrade path to it.

First EVEN if Windows 10 was better and all it just would not be enough to distract Linux users, because of the following:

- it's full to the head of DRMs

- it's still proprietary software all the way

- spying and NSA collaboration

- lack of a proper terminal

- lack of trust in Microsoft in general

so I'm not sure who you are trying to convince.

Instead of trying to convince people to buy in a closed platform, it's way better to help people to use a free platform and help that platform become even better.

But hey, choose your fights, as people say.

Why do you bother debating which one is better when it is clear as day you aren't interested and already have your mind set that it's Linux or nothing?

Sure I like the principles behind open source but I also realize that free doesn't let people get paid or nearly to the degree that lets the big players invest a lot of capital into things.

 

[Klumpen]

Why do you bother debating which one is better when it is clear as day you aren't interested and already have your mind set that it's Linux or nothing?

As I said, "better" is very relative.

Imho it's worse and getting more so with each version than any other OS, simply because of the points mentioned by ekianjo.

 

[ekianjo]

Why do you bother debating which one is better when it is clear as day you aren't interested and already have your mind set that it's Linux or nothing?

I'm not debating, I'm telling why Linux users are not returning on Windows. You should understand that part when you bring "Windows is better" in a community where you get many Linux users.

 

[Exophase]

So hold on, who are the fanboys and who are the trolls for having the wrong totally subjective preferences and ideals? I'm having a hard time keeping track. Is it everyone who posts in this thread?

I'm not debating, I'm telling why Linux users are not returning on Windows. You should understand that part when you bring "Windows is better" in a community where you get many Linux users.

I use Linux on my desktop and won't be switching to Windows, but I don't care about any of the reasons you gave. Different people have different reasons for preferring things.

 

[sebt3]

So hold on, who are the fanboys and who are the trolls for having the wrong totally subjective preferences and ideals? I'm having a hard time keeping track. Is it everyone who posts in this thread?

Yeap. At this point that also mean you and me

 

[Exophase]

Yeap. At this point that also mean you and me

I was hoping to join this distinguished group

 

[kasp]

Exophase and sebt3 really needs to stop trolling.

In other news I abandoned Mint (It gave me the shits trying to setup LDAP with it again) and went back to windows 10.  However as I type this I am also testing a new application  my work requires in centos (since this is a surprise request with no budget considerations given) *sigh* but anyways.

They have kinda half implemented Cortana which looks promising although i don't use it much as I don't have a mic attached.  I also tried to run a program and didn't have the right .net framework which it just asked if I wanted to install it automatically which was nice. Not used to windows doing that.

I honestly think the things that are making windows ebtter in this release they have copied from elsewhere like Linux.  

 

[ekianjo]

making windows ebtter in this release they have copied from elsewhere like Linux.

Windows starting by copying stuff they saw everywhere else. I can't think of anything original Windows ever did. Even DirectX was their "own" OpenGL.

 

[kasp]

making windows ebtter in this release they have copied from elsewhere like Linux.

Windows starting by copying stuff they saw everywhere else. I can't think of anything original Windows ever did. Even DirectX was their "own" OpenGL.

Welcome to IT I hope you enjoy your stay.

Kinda funny you would say that considering plenty of programs in linux are trying to emulate things done in windows.   The entire industry see's good ideas and tries to implement it themselves, everyone does it including Linux.  As for windows not being innovative look at that hologram technology in windows 10.  They are the first to do anything like that.

 

[ekianjo]

Welcome to IT I hope you enjoy your stay.

Huh, there are companies or communities known to be more innovative than others.

Kinda funny you would say that considering plenty of programs in linux are trying to emulate things done in windows

I'm talking about the OS, not the software made for the OS which is a totally different thing. It's not because Photoshop is on Windows that it could not be made on any other OS, for example.  

As for windows not being innovative look at that hologram technology in windows 10.  They are the first to do anything like that.

You mean the marketing video that did a fuss a couple of weeks back ? Oh, just like the Kinect which was supposed to revolutionize video games, and that they pulled out of the Xbox one because nobody used it ?

I'll believe a revolution when I see it, not when a company with tons of dollars hires a PR agency to make a non-existing technology look cool and magic and probably better than it really is.  

 

[kasp]

I'm talking about the OS, not the software made for the OS which is a totally different thing. It's not because Photoshop is on Windows that it could not be made on any other OS, for example.

Kinda funny saying that when Linus himself was naming linux (although granted linux wasn't his choice in name but it stuck) the x in the name was supposed to indicate it was Unix like.

Linux was created to be like another operating system.  So does the OS itself count?  

You mean the marketing video that did a fuss a couple of weeks back ? Oh, just like the Kinect which was supposed to revolutionize video games, and that they pulled out of the Xbox one because nobody used it ?   I'll believe a revolution when I see it, not when a company with tons of dollars hires a PR agency to make a non-existing technology look cool and magic and probably better than it really is.  

Innovative ≠ revolutionary

The kinect will more than likely be adapted by someone else to work better. Oculus brought VR back to the forefront however this was nothing new and in fact they just re purposed other items to do it.

Microsoft has done plenty of innovative things just you wouldn't recognize any of it.  Using your standards there is nothing innovative about Linux either.  The only true innovations in IT was whoever created the first OS (as everything else is just a copy) and xerox who came up with the GUI.

 

[ekianjo]

plenty of innovative things just you wouldn't recognize any of it.

Go ahead, name some apart from the Holothing which is not even out yet.  

Kinda funny saying that when Linus himself was naming linux (although granted linux wasn't his choice in name but it stuck) the x in the name was supposed to indicate it was Unix like.

Linux did not create an OS. He created a kernel. You seem to be missing the huge GNU libraries created by Stallman and his followers before Linux. Linux was a small piece of the whole cake. And he did recreate a kernel, not an OS.

And your comment is a strawman, again. 

Oculus brought VR back to the forefront however this was nothing new and in fact they just re purposed other items to do it.

Who talked about Oculus ? we are talking about OSes here - why are you constantly changing the subject? 

Using your standards there is nothing innovative about Linux either.

Oh yes, there is one big innovative thing Linux did: package managers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Package_manager

BUt you may not be familiar with the idea since you dont have those on Windows. 

 

[Exophase]

This thread really has gone crazy. It's like some of you guys don't understand how preferences work. Think about what makes a GUI good for different people. Now, consider all of the factors that influence this. Like what GUIs the person has had experience with in the past, what their work or usage patterns are like, or even how their brains naturally organize data (think about the differences between an auditory vs a visual learner, for instance)

Linux did not create an OS. He created a kernel. You seem to be missing the huge GNU libraries created by Stallman and his followers before Linux. Linux was a small piece of the whole cake. And he did recreate a kernel, not an OS.

And your comment is a strawman, again.

Most of GNU consists of replacements and sometimes outright clones of proprietary software that preceded it. Hardly a good case to make for innovation in software. Also hate this grouping that draws the "OS" line around GNU + the Linux kernel, no more, no less. It's so arbitrary...

 

[kasp]

Go ahead, name some apart from the Holothing which is not even out yet.  

So go ahead and lets discount the latest thing they announced.  The kinect was fairly innovative especially bringing it to a gaming console sure it didn't work well but it was innovative.   Plenty of things in the server world they have done which is innovative, I would say the server and enterprise field is where they have been most innovative.

Who talked about Oculus ? we are talking about OSes here - why are you constantly changing the subject? 

It's called using an example.  I used what Oculus has done to VR not by introducing anything new but by innovating an industry by using already developed ideas.  A fairly fitting example when you have drawn the line at innovation being 100% brand new and never seen before.

Oh yes, there is one big innovative thing Linux did: package managers.   https://en.wikipedia...Package_manager  BUt you may not be familiar with the idea since you dont have those on Windows. 

Pretty sure Unix came up with the first package system.  It was in SVR4  which was around in the late 80's which could access repositories. Granted not package management but surely they drew inspiration from that  Plus Unix probably got inspiration from it from somewhere else as well.   I also kind of doubt that Linux was the first to implement package management.

This thread really has gone crazy. It's like some of you guys don't understand how preferences work. Think about what makes a GUI good for different people. Now, consider all of the factors that influence this. Like what GUIs the person has had experience with in the past, what their work or usage patterns are like, or even how their brains naturally organize data (think about the differences between an auditory vs a visual learner, for instance)

A lot to do with software is with preference and Exophase is right.  Since I spend most of my time in the business world Microsoft is king and I couldn't imagine using anything else for work the fact I am a gamer cements that further.  I was really please when I saw things like Virtual desktops being introduced into Windows 10.  I got a bit defensive as I pretty much had everyone start jumping down my throats for expressing the opinion that Windows 10 was amazing.

Linux main detriment is the lack of software for it as pretty much all the proprietary software (aka the stuff where people spending millions of dollars on) goes to the windows and OS X world.  I love linux servers because essentially I don't need to deal with software and once up and running they will go forever just about.  

 

[ekianjo]

Most of GNU consists of replacements and sometimes outright clones of proprietary software that preceded it. Hardly a good case to make for innovation in software.

Well the objective of the first GNU people was to be able to recreate Unix tools as Free Software. It was not to become innovative per se. You are missing the point and you should probably read the book about RMS explaining his motivations in the first place. This being said, there are many improvements that were introduced when rewriting some Unix tools, and GCC was one of the best compilers at the time as well (one of the few giving clear informative messages on how to debug your code).  

Pretty sure Unix came up with the first package system.  It was in SVR4  which was around in the late 80's. Granted not package management but surely they drew inspiration from that

Please prove me wrong, but I think Debian was the first to introduce package managers. 

 

[ekianjo]

Like what GUIs the person has had experience with in the past, what their work or usage patterns are like, or even how their brains naturally organize data (think about the differences between an auditory vs a visual learner, for instance)

Agree, and that's exactly what I was saying earlier, in case you missed earlier parts of the thread. Most people prefer Windows because they GREW on Windows and never had the chance to even be exposed to Linux in the first place.

If you had 50% exposure on both systems from the start, and Windows ending up with 99% market share, then we could say that it's far that Windows won, based on user preference (and this is Kasp's theory).

The reality is that an extremely small minority actually hear of Linux, an even smaller actually installs it and uses it. Comparing market share in that condition and saying that it's because of "user preference" is completely nonsensical.  

 

[Silent-Hunter]

That is actually why I use CDE. Because I grew up with Windows 3.1, and the interfaces are extremely similar. I understand that isn't a coincidence, either.