Will DX12 improve things for gamers?

[ekianjo]

Next time when you try to mock about how underpowered is PS4, and how the games run better on PC, compare it with a PC completely build for a 400$ and come again.

 

A PS4 can be used only for gaming. A PC can be used for EVERYTHING. It's like comparing the utility of a washing machine with a computer - that's not how you measure value. And the PS4 cost is subsidized by Sony and by the games you buy for the system. That's why console games are way more expensive than on PCs. 

When you start to factor the cost of 10 games on the system, the price gap between a gaming PC and a gaming console is not that far apart. And if you put a bit more money you can have far better framerates and resolutions on a PC - things you cannot even buy with money on a console. 

Anyways the fan boi blinders are showing

Says the fanboy himself who comes with arguments not related to the initial conversation (which was about GUI, let me remind you).  

 

[ThinkPad]

I have no interest to purchase a 3000 Alienware laptop :/ But I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying GPUs will not be supported properly by default ? On which model then ? Please, bring actual examples.

My statements were mostly rhetorical.

A PS4 can be used only for gaming. A PC can be used for EVERYTHING. It's like comparing the utility of a washing machine with a computer - that's not how you measure value. And the PS4 cost is subsidized by Sony and by the games you buy for the system. That's why console games are way more expensive than on PCs.    When you start to factor the cost of 10 games on the system, the price gap between a gaming PC and a gaming console is not that far apart. And if you put a bit more money you can have far better framerates and resolutions on a PC - things you cannot even buy with money on a console. 

[SIZE=13.63636302948px] [/SIZE]

I know the scheme. The point that I think, you are missing in it, is the life cycle of the console it self - around 6-7 years. For the same life cycle you will need to change the GPU of the system [SIZE=13.63636302948px]at least once, if you want to play everything on maximum settings with 60 FPS. A[/SIZE]nd that is only if you had future proof CPU and motherboard from day one. And usually the future proof things are not cheap at all.

IMO the best long term (price wise) setup should be low to mid end Linux PC for indie games, everyday computing, and stuff + console (PS4) for the new games.

 

[kasp]

Then you have people seriously trying to say that multi monitors isn't a common setup in this day and age.

LOL show me how many "casual users" have multi monitors. I know NONE. Maybe you live in a special nerd circle.  

Go and get yourself a brand new one for a ~3000 USD and put Aarch on it. Then you will be my hero and role model for life.

I have no interest to purchase a 3000 Alienware laptop :/

But I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying GPUs will not be supported properly by default ? On which model then ? Please, bring actual examples.

Actually they are getting pretty common these days especially in workplaces.   How many casual users do you suppose could handle compiling a package from source?  About none so it isn't suitable for casual users at all, if they ever wanted to try a multi monitor setup I doubt that is going to happen.

Linux does some things great but they aren't really aimed at the end user.  There is a reason why Linux has such a small % of the marketplace. Hell it's free and it struggles to make inroads that should be enough of a hint that perhaps it isn't as amazing as you guys think.

For servers it's incredible but the desktop just is nowhere near as good.

 

[Silent-Hunter]

Well, I don't know. I can't make heads or tails of Windows, it's always doing things in stupid ways, but Gentoo works very well for me, and always does things exactly how I tell it to. So, I think it's better. I think Windows should never have become as "user friendly" as it did, because now people don't have to make an effort to really learn computers to use them anymore.

 

[ekianjo]

There is a reason why Linux has such a small % of the marketplace

The reason is simple: no manufacturers is selling ANY hardware with linux by default. That's it. 

 

[ekianjo]

How many casual users do you suppose could handle compiling a package from source?

I've never had to compile anything from sources for ages to get anything running (apart when I do development on my own). It's what I said, you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[ekianjo]

For the same life cycle you will need to change the GPU of the system at least once, if you want to play everything on maximum settings with 60 FPS.

Sure, but you will be able to play way more games than on your PS4/Xboxone - there are a number of PC exclusives you never get on consoles. It also depends a lot on what games you like to play, it's not just a matter of price.  

 

[ThinkPad]

If I were to decend to the same level of pettiness as some of the above posts, I'd point out, against windows, that:

• You can't run any automated scripts without a console window popping up on the desktop and then closing again
• Middle-button paste doesn't work
• Support for virtual serial devices is awful
• Most setups I've seen (large office network installations) are appalingly inefficient - multi-core, multi-GHz, take many minutes to boot
• Feedback when something goes wrong is non-existant ("please wait", "welcome" or similar)
• Multi-partitioned USB mass-storage devices don't work properly.
• File-acess permissions are borken
• Out-of-the box hardware support is very poor - trivial things that should 'just work' need extra driver installation - it even talks about 'installing software drivers ... your device is ready to use' for USB memory sticks!
• And the whole "Ctrl-Alt-Del" thing to reach a login prompt is stupid

I assume that your experience with Windows is only at the User end. There is nothing wrong with that, but in the business world (especially in the large multi national enterprises) the IT Security is a religion, and the followers of that religion are all the Share holders, CTOs, Managers etc. There are even International standards like ISO/IEC 27001. Here it comes the Microsoft Windows Server, and most specifically the Active Directory and all the things that comes under it + all the Group and Security policies for all users and computers in the [SIZE=13.63636302948px]enterprise.[/SIZE]

Most of the things that you mentioned can be configured to work on the Windows computer at home, I will not go in details, but in the enterprise there is a policy, that needs to be signed on paper first by the bosses, and then by the bosses of the bosses and so on, before it is applied on the Users and on the Computers.

Your work computer is booting 5 minutes maybe because the main high speed circuit to the Domain Controller is down and at the moment it is rerouted through a low speed backup line.

Things like that are completely invisible for the end User.

I can also ensure you that things like [SIZE=13.63636302948px]File access permissions for the Windows Administrators are the next great thing since the sliced bread and the [/SIZE]gummy[SIZE=13.63636302948px] bears, especially in [/SIZE]environment[SIZE=13.63636302948px] with 4000 computers, 5000 users, 20 [/SIZE]physical[SIZE=13.63636302948px] and 100 virtual servers (by [/SIZE]Microsoft[SIZE=13.63636302948px] [/SIZE]standards[SIZE=13.63636302948px] this is [/SIZE]small to medium business)[SIZE=13.63636302948px].[/SIZE]

And the whole "Ctrl-Alt-Del" thing to reach a login prompt is stupid

Again security policy. It the most cases it is configured to lock your screen on 5 minutes inactivity without killing any background processes.

You see guys, If the enterprises are getting Zillions in a mount, they do not care if they need to spend several hundred millions for things like hardware and licenses in order to to meet the IT Security Standards. And that is why nobody can touch Microsoft at the enterprise market.

 

[ThinkPad]

The reason is simple: no manufacturers is selling ANY hardware with linux by default. That's it. 

How about HP and Dell ?  

 

[Silent-Hunter]

I don't know, if I ever ran a corporation, I wouldn't touch Windows with a ten foot pole. It's woefully insecure. There's a reason 90% of the server market runs Linux or UNIX.

 

[ThinkPad]

It's woefully insecure

If you run it at home yes it is insecure. If it is a work PC in a large corporation with whole IT Department, it is 100 times more secure.

 

[kasp]

There is a reason why Linux has such a small % of the marketplace

The reason is simple: no manufacturers is selling ANY hardware with linux by default. That's it. 

Yes it's all the manufacturers fault they decided to raise the prices of their machines to offer a far inferior product.  Dell who decided to sell some Linux laptops dropped them due to lack of demand and support issues. Hell the majority of advanced users who build machines themselves would use linux oh but wait they don't and fork out and buy windows for some strange reason. Linux is so incredibly easy to install these days and it's free that isn't really a legitimate reason.  Free and superior would quickly find itself dominating, Ubuntu which really started the more user friendly side of linux has been out 10 years or so now, yet it still hasn't managed to stick, if it was superior it would certainly made a significant dent by now. 

As for compiling software good for you.  You must be some kind of linux god to never have to compile software. Half the time I try and install programs they might have a package but it's either debian when I am using redhat or rpm when I am using debian.  Strange that the majority of people offer the source when apparently it just isn't required any more.  This another casual friendly thing for the end users right?  The many different packages and flavours of installers?

Linux requires too much fucking around quite frankly for it to be a user friendly OS.  Hell I understand how it all works and I couldn't be arsed with it it slows me down too much if I need a quick program to use on the fly it is such a slower progress with linux than it is with windows.

Yes linux does some things amazingly well but as a overall package it just isn't in the same league as windows well at least with the desktops.  The fact is the second you get into the GUI I don't really like Linux that much.  However I only really ssh into servers and I never install the GUI.  About every major release of Ubuntu I give it a whirl as well as the new flavours of Fedora but I always find myself back to windows after a week or two.

 

[Klumpen]

Yes, Windows is still superior for games solely due to better third party support (not for long anymore, but whatever),

but I don't care. I don't want any DRM on my system and abdicating from DRMed games would be highly hypocritical if my OS is full of it.

As soon as gaming on Linux has come to a certain point, I'll buy a gaming machine specifically put together for this, until then I'm happy with the setup I currently have.

 

[Ziz]

[...]

Linux is a far superior desktop!

 

[Ziz]

Strange that the majority of people offer the source when apparently it just isn't required any more.

I fact I planned to just troll back you all the time with "Linux is a far superior desktop!", but this is just TOO stupid to not react in detail.
Are you fucking kidding me? The source code is not for the Ubuntu using Grandma or the Linux Mint using househusband.

Did you even hear of "Free Software" or "Open Source"?

You have the right to see the code, to change the code, to improve the code, to compile the code on a toaster!

But you are not forced to... Your "half of my software needs to be compiled" examples are pure invention! I didn't compile anything (except my own work) on my PC since AGES (except some GCW libraries, but good look with finding precompiled GCW libraries for Windows!)

The source code is an offer for interested users! In fact most users will never visit the source-providing website of a software, because pebuild packages are available in the default repository!

 

[ekianjo]

Linux is so incredibly easy to install these days and it's free that isn't really a legitimate reason.

1. Supply = 0

2. Awareness among basic users = 0

3. Marketing efforts = 0 because 0 budget

Actually reaching 1% of installs over the whole user base is a miracle in these conditions, if you think two seconds about it instead of trolling.  

Half the time I try and install programs they might have a package but it's either debian when I am using redhat or rpm when I am using debian.

Looks like you never learnt how to use a package manager, But hey, coming from Windows where it's SUCH a superior user experience despite having NO package manager to update all the software you have on your computer, you probably don't need it.  

Hell I understand how it all works

Your comments certainly paint the picture of a power Linux user. Seems like you DO know everything about it.  

I didn't compile anything (except my own work) on my PC since AGES (except some GCW libraries,

Glad to know it's not just me, I was starting to believe I was an exception following kasp's comments. 

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

Come one guys, this discussion/debate/fighting/putting-down-each-other is pointless.  My wife is a woman, and I am a man, but we love each other and have been living in harmony

 

[PokeParadox]

Personal Example: I've recently converted my dad's laptop to Xubuntu 14.10 and he's getting on ok with it. My borther has been a convertee for a year or so.
They just want to browse, check emails, download some torrents and burn some DVDs... all of which they can do out of the box.
Yes I had to do some rummaging around since my Dad's laptop had a weird graphics chip, but I managed to find a driver package to set that up for him.
After the initial set up, he is good to go and happy how snappy his laptop is running compared to how bogged down it was with Windows.

You can draw your own conclusions...

 

[ElPoco]

I put Ubuntu on my dad's computer, and he needs as much assistance as he needed with Windows, but with different problems.

 

[kasp]

Oh sorry guys forgot the package manager contained every single bit of software ever created or even conceived. In fact no one would ever need to add additional respositries or compile from source code ever. If they do that must make them stupid.


Man guys like you are so annoying in the I.T world you get so defensive that someone has a different opinion. You have even gone so far to insult me over it. You probably lecture everyone how open source is always better than closed source as well.


How can you Blame supply? anyone can download it at any time. Linux has been around more years than me and with a 1% install base if it was better it would be making ground easily. However it's not and is fairly stationary. With a product that's free you and so easy to install its quite surprising its not on more machines.