Will DX12 improve things for gamers?

[elw3]

Most linux distros are working ootb. Regardless of what hardware you have or weird monitor settings you use.

Eg nvidia drivers get installed from alone and the setup tool does an ecxellent job for multi monitors. Same for my printer, TV stick and such.

So if you ever tinkered with something on your own it is YOUR fault that it broke. Learn how to use a computer instead to complain. 

 

[fusion_power]

Has anyone used WIndows 10 yet?   I have and it is bloody amazing, I was expecting it to be a bit rough around the edges but it feels extremely polished and some features like virtual desktops they do heaps better than linux.

Not tested it by myself but I guess Iwillswitch rather to Win10 than to Win 8 when the time has come. I still use Vista by the way (heavily modified at least). may I ask how many processes are running in the background in Win 10 (Task Manager) My Vista has ~50, formerly way above 60, I expect Win10 has less than that. ^^"
I don't want to join the endless Win/Linux debate again, it leads to nothing. I just find that Windows is indeed easier to use for end users, beginners due it's focus on usability and general compatibility (Hardware, drivers...). Linux' focus is more the deeper technical side which is needed to run Servers and more "serious" stuff. It wasm ade for that and it does that much better than Windows for sure. I still can't recommend Linux for "average" desktop PC users, at least none that already had experience with Windows. (May be easier if people never had any PC experience to bring them right to Linux and skip Win completely)

 

[ekianjo]

Windows is indeed easier to use for end users, beginners

That statement is heavily biased by the fact that most users HAVE to use Windows because they have no other choice when they buy a computer.

​

​

I still can't recommend Linux for "average" desktop PC users

Average PC users only need a browser and that's it, and a Linux machine works perfectly for that. Why do you think they sell Chromebooks by the truckload?

​

 

[Ziz]

I still can't recommend Linux for "average" desktop PC users

Average PC users only need a browser and that's it, and a Linux machine works perfectly for that. Why do you think they sell Chromebooks by the truckload?

​Furthermore I wouldn't recommend installing any OS (be it Linux or Windows) for "average" desktop users. The problem is not the OS, the problem is the installation and especially the preinstallation!
When I sold the old shitty netbook (shitty keyboard. AGAIN!) of my gf, I reinstalled Windows 7 Starter, because it had a license and it sells better in ebay if Windows is preinstalled. So I downloaded a Windows 7 Starter DVD (I had a key, but not installation media. Ludicrous!), installed it, went to Asus website to download all the drivers and found: Nothing. I had to download all the drivers from some unknown, not very trustworthy site on the internet. I would not like to use this installation...

 

[Binky]

If I were to decend to the same level of pettiness as some of the above posts, I'd point out, against windows, that:

• You can't run any automated scripts without a console window popping up on the desktop and then closing again
• Middle-button paste doesn't work
• Support for virtual serial devices is awful
• Most setups I've seen (large office network installations) are appalingly inefficient - multi-core, multi-GHz, take many minutes to boot
• Feedback when something goes wrong is non-existant ("please wait", "welcome" or similar)
• Multi-partitioned USB mass-storage devices don't work properly.
• File-acess permissions are borken
• Out-of-the box hardware support is very poor - trivial things that should 'just work' need extra driver installation - it even talks about 'installing software drivers ... your device is ready to use' for USB memory sticks!
• And the whole "Ctrl-Alt-Del" thing to reach a login prompt is stupid

 

[Ziz]

Not tested it by myself but I guess Iwillswitch rather to Win10 than to Win 8 when the time has come. I still use Vista by the way (heavily modified at least). may I ask how many processes are running in the background in Win 10 (Task Manager) My Vista has ~50, formerly way above 60, I expect Win10 has less than that. ^^"

This is not really an argument anymore, is it? htop says, I have 127 processes with 237 threads running. And this is fine. Is the Windows task scheduler still so broken, that more than 20 tasks/processes/threads lead to massive problems?

 

[ekianjo]

- it even talks about 'installing software drivers ... your device is ready to use' for USB memory sticks!

Yeah, I was in WIndows the other day and it took 2 minutes to install USB drivers for a USB flashdrive using NTFS. and that was not the first one it ever saw either. Completely unbelievable how broken Windows is.

​

​

​

 

[fusion_power]

Not tested it by myself but I guess Iwillswitch rather to Win10 than to Win 8 when the time has come. I still use Vista by the way (heavily modified at least). may I ask how many processes are running in the background in Win 10 (Task Manager) My Vista has ~50, formerly way above 60, I expect Win10 has less than that. ^^"

This is not really an argument anymore, is it? htop says, I have 127 processes with 237 threads running. And this is fine. Is the Windows task scheduler still so broken, that more than 20 tasks/processes/threads lead to massive problems?

Well, not sure if it really matters that much with newer OS and better hardware, but I could speed up my (compared old) Vista system quiet a bit by eliminating alot of unneeded background processes. I even managed to get rid of some ugly "TDR" driver resets (black screen) by digging through the running processes and deleted some suspects (google update service process is really evil!!!). Now my system runs stable and fluid again (for it's age). I can't really complain.I'm sure Win 7, 8, 10 can also be optimized alot, even if they already perform better than Vista ever did.

When I sold the old shitty netbook (shitty keyboard. AGAIN!) of my gf, I reinstalled Windows 7 Starter, because it had a license and it sells better in ebay if Windows is preinstalled. So I downloaded a Windows 7 Starter DVD (I had a key, but not installation media. Ludicrous!), installed it, went to Asus website to download all the drivers and found: Nothing. I had to download all the drivers from some unknown, not very trustworthy site on the internet. I would not like to use this installation...

Driver situation for mobile (Windows) devices seems to be not as good as for desktop hardware indeed. I have no trouble to find all needed drivers for my Asus Mainboard and other PC components but I know from past Laptop usage, that even (for gaming) mandatory stuff like recent Graphic Drivers were a big issue, afaik ATI never made propper ones that worked on Laptops back then, I always used the inofficial "Omega Drivers" for that issue.

 

[Ziz]

When I sold the old shitty netbook (shitty keyboard. AGAIN!) of my gf, I reinstalled Windows 7 Starter, because it had a license and it sells better in ebay if Windows is preinstalled. So I downloaded a Windows 7 Starter DVD (I had a key, but not installation media. Ludicrous!), installed it, went to Asus website to download all the drivers and found: Nothing. I had to download all the drivers from some unknown, not very trustworthy site on the internet. I would not like to use this installation...

Driver situation for mobile (Windows) devices seems to be not as good as for desktop hardware indeed. I have no trouble to find all needed drivers for my Asus Mainboard and other PC components but I know from past Laptop usage, that even (for gaming) mandatory stuff like recent Graphic Drivers were a big issue, afaik ATI never made propper ones that worked on Laptops back then, I always used the inofficial "Omega Drivers" for that issue.

I had the same with my notebook. In reviews about it, I found the information, I have to install the Lenovo-nvidia-drivers for Windows, not the drivers of nvidia itself. This works QUITE better within Linux. I just install nvidia-current and am done.

 

[ThinkPad]

  Go back your WIndows reddit then and leave us alone. We won't miss you one bit. ​

First you are mocking about how a PlayStation for [SIZE=13.63636302948px]400 USD[/SIZE] have a under powered hardware versus[SIZE=13.63636302948px] a [/SIZE]PC for 1200 USD, [SIZE=13.63636302948px]Then you are advocating for gaming on [/SIZE][SIZE=13.63636302948px]Linux[/SIZE][SIZE=13.63636302948px].[/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.63636302948px]Try this out, go and buy yourself a high end gaming GPU for 800 bucks and enjoy all the AAA titles under your preferable distro, your favorite part will be:[/SIZE]

You don't even need to install GPU drivers in most distros.

[SIZE=13.63636302948px]  LOL [/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.63636302948px]Or go and buy yourself an [/SIZE]Alienware[SIZE=13.63636302948px] or RoG laptop and put Slackware on it. Cant wait to see that one... [/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.63636302948px]Now, I want to clarify something in order to not get me wrong,[/SIZE]

First, [SIZE=13.63636302948px]Yes, the PC gaming, in general have a very bright future on the Linux distros, but it is not there yet.[/SIZE]

Second, [SIZE=13.63636302948px]Windows 10 will be [/SIZE]completely[SIZE=13.63636302948px] free for those who [/SIZE]already[SIZE=13.63636302948px] have their 7, 8, or 8.1[/SIZE][SIZE=13.63636302948px] licenses,[/SIZE]

but instead of using Win 10, I will switch to Debian on all my future laptops and desktops.

Until then Windows 7 and PS4 FTW.

 

[Ziz]

You don't even need to install GPU drivers in most distros.

  LOL Or go and buy yourself an Alienware or RoG laptop and put Slackware on it. Cant wait to see that one... 

Hm, I think I didn't get the joke. I paid ~550€ for a quite recent Notebook with quite recent nvidia gpu (both from summer 2013). I installed a quite popular Linux distribution. The graphic card works after I installed just one additional package. I don't play AAA titles, but some recent steam stuff and a windows game from 2008 via wine. And why should a noob install Slackware? Thought the discussion is about consumer Linux.

 

[ThinkPad]

Alright then. Put a whatever you like Linux on a brand new Alienware and don't play AAA titles on it

You can even disable the Nvidia GPU completely on it and use the Intel GPU...

 

[ekianjo]

First you are mocking about how a PlayStation for 400 USD have a under powered hardware versus a PC for 1200 USD, Then you are advocating for gaming on Linux.

If you are trying to be a smartass you should make sure you have the right lines to look like one.

First we are talking about GUI here between Windows and Linux in case you missed an episode. And by the way you can game on a Linux PC for way less than 1200 USD.  

First, Yes, the PC gaming, in general have a very bright future on the Linux distros, but it is not there yet.  

Thats not the point discussed in this thread at all. Nice strawman. 

Second, Windows 10 will be completely free for those who already have their 7, 8, or 8.1 licenses,

Free for the first year, big difference. Learn to read press releases. 

Alright then. Put a whatever you like Linux on a brand new Alienware and don't play AAA titles on it

Do a google search and look for Bumblebee. Have fun. 

 

[ekianjo]

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Alienware_M11x

 

[WizardStan]

don't play AAA titles on it

I've got a fairly old system, just an i5@3.4Ghz quad with a GTX 550. The whole shebang cost me about $600 without a monitor since I have so many, but if we say $150 to tack on a decent screen it's still under $800. I played through Bioshock Infinite at full graphics settings without a problem. To be fair, I had to get a copy of Windows 7 in order to do it so it isn't very indicative of "gaming on Linux", but we can revisit that when the port is finally available. I have been playing Skyrim for several months, however, again with all settings maxed out and several "enhancement" mods that are supposed to make it look as beautiful as possible while chewing up as much RAM as possible. I would consider both of these to be AAA titles, and if they aren't can you direct me to something that is?

 

[kasp]

So your argument is: Windows is a far superior desktop, because third party hardware/software has better support?


Sorry, what has the desktop to do with driver support?


Yes, I need to google before I buy a new notebook, printer, scanner, webcam, wifi-stick or usb-Toaster.


Yes, this is annoying!


No, this is not Linux's fault, but the hardware and software vendors, which is the reason, why I avoid such vendors if possible.


But as I don't have the feeling, you want to tell me, why the Windows desktop is superior, I will using the same argument like you without a deeper explanation (just the other way around) in the future:


Linux is a far superior desktop!

So basically your saying Linux is better if you don't use it how people normally use computer.  Yep superior indeed.


It doesn't matter if it is or isn't Linux's fault it ties in with how you use the system.  Zune was pretty decent music platform but since noone else came to the table it died because there were virtually no apps and it sucked for that very reason.  Same issue with Linux. Then you have people seriously trying to say that multi monitors isn't a common setup in this day and age.

Anyways the fan boi blinders are showing.  I will give you Linux desktops are definitely worth what you pay for it

You complain about GUI%2

 

[ThinkPad]

Have fun. 

I am having fun all my life with religious douche bags. Do not worry

Next time when you try to mock about how underpowered is PS4, and how the games run better on PC, compare it with a PC completely build for a 400$ and come again.

Free for the first year, big difference.  

Like I care ? In a few months I will be using Windows only on my workplace (2012 R2 and 7/8.1) after I switch to full Linux at home.

Learn to read press releases

Learn not to be a douche.

Bumblebee

It is possible that I am even more aware about it, then you

https://wiki.archlin.../Alienware_M11x

Kek, I usually put it on even far older machines. No sir. Go and get yourself a brand new one for a ~3000 USD and put Aarch on it. Then you will be my hero and role model for life.

 

 

[Ziz]

[...]

Linux is a far superior desktop!

 

[Silent-Hunter]

I look forward to more games using OpenGL. Considering OpenGL runs on Windows too, I think Microsoft should abandon DirectX, and use what everyone else uses instead.

 

[ekianjo]

Then you have people seriously trying to say that multi monitors isn't a common setup in this day and age.

LOL show me how many "casual users" have multi monitors. I know NONE. Maybe you live in a special nerd circle.  

Go and get yourself a brand new one for a ~3000 USD and put Aarch on it. Then you will be my hero and role model for life.

I have no interest to purchase a 3000 Alienware laptop :/

But I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying GPUs will not be supported properly by default ? On which model then ? Please, bring actual examples.