Will DX12 improve things for gamers?

[Ziz]

and some features like virtual desktops they do heaps better than linux.

What exactly did Windows better?

 

[kasp]

and some features like virtual desktops they do heaps better than linux.

What exactly did Windows better?

Virtual desktops, it is just so much smoother than it has been with any Linux version I have used, kinda surprising since this is the first time it has been integrated into the system.  Personally while I love linux for servers Windows smashes Linux on usability when it comes to desktops. Windows does virtually everything better in desktops for end users.

I am amazed at the performance as well, it's just such an amazing OS and there are a truckload of features not available yet.

 

[Ziz]

What do you mean with "smoother"? My desktops are very "smooth". I can even strech a window to more than one desktop. Please explain more detailed.

(Fun fact: Afaik Windows had virtual desktops for quite a long time, at least it had an API for it. It just was not used for some reasons. However there were some third party applications, which made use of it, but they didn't do a good job imo)

 

[ekianjo]

Windows does virtually everything better in desktops for end users.

Yeha, like waiting several seconds do display folders when you click on the explorer.... on Linux this is instant. There is so much overhead in Windows, I can't even begin to fathom when is the last time you used Linux to make such ridiculous statements.

 

[kasp]

Windows does virtually everything better in desktops for end users.

Yeha, like waiting several seconds do display folders when you click on the explorer.... on Linux this is instant. There is so much overhead in Windows, I can't even begin to fathom when is the last time you used Linux to make such ridiculous statements.

I love linux just not their GUI.  Linux is not in the same ballpark in the desktop market.

Last time I used Linux as a desktop was probably 6 months ago.  

Overhead or not WIndows is still a superior Desktop for home users.  Now servers... that is where Linux really shines.

 

[Null]

I love linux just not their GUI.

Which one? https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/desktop_environment

 

[kasp]

Doesn't matter, Gnome, KDE, Cinnamon or whatever it just doesn't give the same experience.   

Sure I am an advanced user and I can get it working but when I am working I don't want to spend time mucking around with dependencies just to get something fairly basic working.

Windows is far superior with the end user experience, I wouldn't have thought there would have been much debate about that.

 

[WizardStan]

it just doesn't give the same experience

Of course it doesn't, I'd be very disturbed if it gave the exact same experience.It is possible for two things to perform the same job in different ways and both be excellent at it. Standard console controllers are pretty similar but distinctly different, yet I've never heard anyone complain that they don't like the XBone explicitly because the controller is different from the PS4's.

If your looking for something "Windows like" specifically, there are XFCE themes that will make it look virtually identical to Windows XP or 7. If that's your primary complaint then you needn't worry, linux devs have had this figured out for a long time.

 

[Null]

Windows is far superior with the end user experience, I wouldn't have thought there would have been much debate about that.

Have you been here long?

 

[ekianjo]

I don't want to spend time mucking around with dependencies just to get something fairly basic working.

???? Like when is the last time you had to worry about dependencies for something "basic" on Linux ? You don't even need to install GPU drivers in most distros.

Windows is far superior with the end user experience, I wouldn't have thought there would have been much debate about that.

Yeah, that's probably why Windows is copying Linux version after version, in terms of GUI ideas. You were just born yesterday or something, or did you wake up as a troll this morning?

 

[Ziz]

I am quite sure, you are trolling, kasp.

I am using an up2date XFCE with Compiz and it works so great. However Gnome 2 worked with Compiz just as well 4 years ago, so the GUI awesomeness is not new.

What do I like? First of all: The compiz effects. I know, not everyone likes them. But I like the metapher of my 4 desktops as a face of a cube. So I have a rotating cube animation, when I change the destops. When a window reaches the border of a desktop and I move it beyond it, it is shown on the next cube face. Super easy metapher for the user of 4 vertical arranged desktops. May girlfriend likes this a lot on her 6 years old notebook, too (which runs on a quite recent Linux distribution of course). But I like also the possibility to make windows "transparent". I used this once to trace a pictures with Inkscape. And I love wobbly windows. But am quite sure I am quite alone with this love. *cough*

Does the file browser of Windows support tabs finally? The XFCE browser Thunar doesn't, too. But I can just use nautilus/caja instead and TELLING XFCE, which file browser I prefer. I am forced to NOTHING.

It may be, that I need to configure my system a bit more after an installation. However I could already use it! But I like to customize my Linux, I am quite used to some behaviours. But at least I don't need to search the internet for some third party applications and drivers. I just start synaptic and install, what I am missing.

I just bought a new notebook. Most recent notebook have a VERY shitty keyboard, so I went to my local electronic store and tested some companies' laptops. Acer, HP, Asus and so one. Spoiler: All keyboards except of the Lenovo notebooks sucked. At least the models, they had there... However to have a deeper test I searched for a writing program on the Windows 8 installation of the Lenovo model. I did find nothing! In the end I figured out, how to search applications by name and searched for notepad.exe (imo the only constant in the Windows universe, even wine supports it! ). What do I want to tell you here? I was in the role of a noob. I didn't know, how to use Windows 8, and I had quite trouble to work with it or to figure out, what is installed - and what not. Is there no office or did I just not find it? I don't like Gnome 3 or Unity myself. But I know from Linux noobs, who likes them a lot! I am just not the target. But that isn't bad, I have alternatives! MANY alternative. What is my alternative to the Metro?

I bought such a Lenovo notebook quite cheap (but in the internet, it was said to have some use traces on the case... Didn't find any, but got a 200€ discount) without a Windows installed. I installed a recent Linux Mint (of course encrypted), installed bumblebee to use the second graphics card of nvidia for more power (the first gpu of intel worked out of the box) and in fact I would have done then. However as said I like XFCE with compiz a lot, so I installed and configured it. But this was optional. All hardware drivers did just work (yes, even WiFi). I was ready to be productive, be it office work, trolling in the internet or developing some stuff. Even the 32 bit support for 64 bit installations of Linux is quite good these days! I am very happy to have installed a 64 Bit Mint.

My system boots in only a few seconds. I need longer for my password than the system needs to boot after I unlocked the filesystem.

So and now my question again, because you answered only some vague Microsoft advertisment: Why is the virtual desktop implementation better than the Linux one. And especially WHICH Linux one? You have many choices:

• With Compositing, includinga cube or a barrel
• overview of all your desktops

[*]vertically arranged
[*]horizontal arranged
[*]both (as grid)
[*]With arrows when you change the desktop
[*]With names for the different desktops
[*]The count of the desktops is of course random.
[*]At least in my installation I can choice between cycling through the windows of the recent desktop (Alt+Tab as you know it) or to cycle through all windows of all desktops!
[*]I have also an overview of all windows of all desktops if I like and can just select the window I need with the keyboard of the mouse
And I am quite sure I forgot some feature of a desktop environment I don't use.
Looking forward for your answer.

Greetings,

Ziz

Edit: Another neat story I want to tell you. I met some ex Linux users or "Linux only on server"-users in my life. The ex linux users all went to Apple, not Windows. However the funny part is: All deserter or "linux is for servers only"-guys I know didn't use a consumer distribution like Ubuntu or Linux Mint. No, they used Fedora (the playground of RedHat) or even Gentoo (Linux for real (wo)men). And the argument were always, that Linux was so hard to maintain... I don't know, why they never tried an easier to maintain distribution. I think they wanted always the most recent and hottest features. But no work to keep them working...

 

[kasp]

???? Like when is the last time you had to worry about dependencies for something "basic" on Linux ? You don't even need to install GPU drivers in most distros.

Last time I installed it.  

Meh anyways clearly you are fanboi's because quite frankly even the most hardcore and dedicated linux server admins I know use either OSX or Windows as their desktops OS.  The same reason I do because it is easier and it is a far superior desktop.

Linux is great especially in the servers but the desktop just isn't up to scratch. Sure they have implemented some cool features but as a whole it isn't great. Probably part of that is just how fragmented the environment is, who knows but as an end user and a professional I couldn't be bother using Linux as a desktop. Everything is more difficult to do, like sure you want to accept the bare desktop I would still argue OSX and WIndows are better. However the second you start expanding your system it gets more difficult and annoying. No I don't want to compile from source code and yes I run into dependency issues all the time when doing this and it is fairly ridiculous to assert that this is a user friendly way of doing things.

Just from the top of my head some of the issues that plague the desktop linux.

Open source driver are problematic and don't perform nearly as well let alone advanced features like multiGPU's. Even the propriety drivers don't work well and there are people complaining left and right. 

Hardware acceleration is a bit rocky.

I can't remember when I didn't have to tinker with the drivers to get things working right as opposed with windows where I don't.  Tried setting a multi monitor?  Good luck with that for your average user. Even after getting it working one of the many issues that plagues X system seems to bugger it up frequently.

Connecting printers is hit and miss, plenty of non supported printers and when you get them working plenty of printing features are missing,  On laptops alot of the advanced buttons and battery features just flat out don't work.

Adobe flash player is horrendous on linux.  Should I even start with the X System?  you guys should know the multitude of issues that has.

If something does crash like video and it is bloody common given the shitty video drivers it never recovers.

No where near the library of software Windows has. How can you seriously say it is as good as an end user experience as windows is pretty boggling.

Oh yeah and connecting to LDAP theres a fun little exercise.

If I use windows the above just doesn't happen.  

 

[Ziz]

So your argument is: Windows is a far superior desktop, because third party hardware/software has better support?

Sorry, what has the desktop to do with driver support?

Yes, I need to google before I buy a new notebook, printer, scanner, webcam, wifi-stick or usb-Toaster.

Yes, this is annoying!

No, this is not Linux's fault, but the hardware and software vendors, which is the reason, why I avoid such vendors if possible.

But as I don't have the feeling, you want to tell me, why the Windows desktop is superior, I will using the same argument like you without a deeper explanation (just the other way around) in the future:

Linux is a far superior desktop!

 

[PokeParadox]

So your argument is: Windows is a far superior desktop, because third party hardware/software has better support?


Sorry, what has the desktop to do with driver support?


Yes, I need to google before I buy a new notebook, printer, scanner, webcam, wifi-stick or usb-Toaster.


Yes, this is annoying!


No, this is not Linux's fault, but the hardware and software vendors, which is the reason, why I avoid such vendors if possible.


But as I don't have the feeling, you want to tell me, why the Windows desktop is superior, I will using the same argument like you without a deeper explanation (just the other way around) in the future:


Linux is a far superior desktop!

Amiga OS is the best!

 

[WizardStan]

If something does crash like video and it is bloody common given the shitty video drivers it never recovers

Ok, I'm calling you out on this.Linux is specifically designed so that this cannot happen. If any driver crashes it literally just restarts itself, even the video driver. I've experimented with ACTUAL shitty video drivers (bleeding edge not meant for human consumption, not to be confused with the official and highly stable drivers most people will be using) and when they crashed (which is what unstable drivers will do) the absolute worst that happened was the X server unfortunately crashed along with the display driver and when it came back up 3 seconds later I was dumped to the login screen and all my work was gone. But that's still a recovery. Most of the time the screen just goes black and then comes right back up as the X server reconnects.

Simple conclusion: I don't know what cyberwitch you pissed off but if even half of what you're talking about is true then you have a curse. Seekhelp from a digitalexorcist.

 

[ekianjo]

Tried setting a multi monitor? Good luck with that for your average user. Even after getting it working one of the many issues that plagues X system seems to bugger it up frequently.

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​LOL I love when you say "basic stuff" and then when you write "multi monitor setup", because yeah, that's precisely what "basic users" do all the time!

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Connecting printers is hit and miss, plenty of non supported printers and when you get them working plenty of printing features are missing, On laptops alot of the advanced buttons and battery features just flat out don't work.

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​Nothing to do with Linux. Complain to hardware vendors.

 

[Null]

Adobe flash player is horrendous on linux.

FTFY

 

[ekianjo]

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Adobe flash player is horrendous on linux.

Complain to Adobe, they stopped supporting Linux for a long time already. Nothing to do with the GUI btw.

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[WizardStan]

Also it's trivial these days, especially if you have NVidia cards. It literally does everything for you. Time was when you would need to copy and paste some stuff into your X config to get a second monitor setup, now you just click some buttons and tell it how you want them displayed.

I've got Skyrim on my left and a 3D print job display on my right and it was easy to set up.

I'm sticking with my "cyberwitch" theory, kasp has problems.

 

[ekianjo]

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No where near the library of software Windows has. How can you seriously say it is as good as an end user experience as windows is pretty boggling.

You complain about GUI and then suddently you comment about software choice. Choose your fight.

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If I use windows the above just doesn't happen.

Go back your WIndows reddit then and leave us alone. We won't miss you one bit.

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