What's Up With You Guys? Mk2

[Epicenter]

I'd like to set the record straight for WHY there has been so much growing dissent as of late on these forums in response to the topic 'What's up with you guys' that was just closed once the creator decided he was no longer fond of the responses he was getting. I'd like to ask that this topic not be closed and that it be allowed to run to exhaustion of the subject matter under discussion. There is no rational point in cutting off a conversation once the opinions expressed in it are deemed 'unfavorable' by moderators. That is not conducive to a 'community', it is stifling, and it needs to stop.

I believe this post will garner significant degrees of scorn toward me. Feel more than welcome to express that. It's what this forum needs-- not a lot of people having their opinions held back because they do not meet the standards of the Powers That Be .. Or even if they DO. It is my hope we can keep a rational level-headed tone of mature discussion. EvilDragon- you already responded to my comments with personal attacks, e.g. stating my brain could be emulated on a GP32-- you should know this has caused me to lose a great deal of respect for you. Perhaps you can regain it, perhaps not. I would hope you can at least prove yourself to be a more decent human being than your counterpart at GBAX/Gp2x.co.uk.

Down to the point. EvilDragon and perhaps some others-- You want to know why there is so much dissent regarding the GP2X as of late? Is it all because people just like to complain or they are trying to keep down the mighty GP2X rebellion and fight for freedom in the oppressive game industry? I doubt it. Here's some events that have led to this much-lamented dissent.

- Existing GP2X hardware and firmware issues that have stood without repair for over 14 months.
- Vektar took forever to be released and even longer to get to waiting consumers who ordered it months prior.
- Vektar's packaging was godawful.
- The exact same for Payback. Except worse, since it was plagued by massive bugs, crashes and missing features that should've been caught long before release.
- The Breakout Board was an engineering disaster and often needs modification to work correctly; and a packaged version was promised, when, 6 months ago? Longer? 8? Where is it? All we have are RENDERS because GPH does not even have a prototype.
- Pre-sale stick replacement with D-Pads was offered and touted numerous times. Yet no one is offering it. NO ONE. It is doubtful anyone ever will.
- The famed 'new firmware' is a new skin and a more-than-doubled boot time. All the classic GP2X problems like crashing media players and a slow faulty GUI remain.
- All GPH has done to improve the GUI is make it fade from screen to screen.
- GPH is squandering its money on worthless endeavors like breakout boxes and boards and contests that won't get it any income from the games produced, instead of fixing the problems with the units that everyone has (most notably and importantly the stick).
- The Value Pack that was just released with worthless accessories. It was clearly a ploy by GPH to get rid of piles of accessories no one would buy like handstraps and those godawful cases; with nothing USEFUL included like AC adapters or TV out cables.
- Craig/GBAX's release of 'guaranteed-overclockable' GP2X units with higher prices that are unable to achieve their claimed speed, resulting in a scaling back of the units from 275 MHz to lower clockrates, combined with deceptive fraudulent postings on the site claiming they have a faster processor (and encouragement of the press to promote this misinformation)
- The fact that any unit that does NOT come 'guaranteed overclockable' is not overclockable to any appreciable level, guaranteeing nothing more than an increase in revenue per GP2X sale by Craig/GBAX
- Increasing popularity, availability and ease of use of PSP emulation software and DS emulation software, hardware advancements in the DS Lite vs. the DS 'phat', 'slowdown' of the GP2X emulation scene.

The list goes on and on.

If you're going to make it a crusade to shut out divergent opinion from the status quo GP2X-is-Jesus circlejerk, go ahead. But you're just going to further isolate and alienate the patrons of this site. I believe you will see the number of those patrons to hang on will continue to drop in quite linear fashion as the problems continue to arise, GPH and the distributors like yourself and Craig continue to fail to remedy them, the number of alternatives to the GP2X for each application increase and the viability of those alternatives improves. But maybe that's what you want. This forum to deteriorate into the inner cicle of utmost GP2X fanatics whose loyalty is paramount. A truly nauseating picture.

 

[TelcoLou]

... um dude ... I reported the topic, and Fluffy closed it. I can count on one hand how many times ED closed a topic.

Oh, and I only read the first sentence of what appears to be another long diatribe about why the GP2X sucks. Don't you have important things to do with you life? All this seems counter-productive ..

 

[daclassicgamingmaster]

I'm going to actually contribute something to this thread WHILE I eat popcorn and watch it's inevitable demise.

I concur with epicenter on this. It's a great little device, and I like it a lot, however, poor commercial support as well as lousy professional development have greatly shortened it's lifespan. Too many things which shouldn't have happened to begin with have occured. The joke it, it's still going on.

Please: Craig, ED, and everyone else. We need to put some fire under GPH's ass and get shit done. Otherwise, the gp2x will end up another failed console.

 

[Alex.]

I'll attempt to discuss your points in an unbiased way, as is humanly possible.


- Existing GP2X hardware and firmware issues that have stood without repair for over 14 months.

I have an MK2, which has been released, I believe sometime between May and June of 2006. Hardware-wise it is satisfactory to me, except for the stick to some extent. The stick works fine for some games, but it is terrible for others. Are there any other hardware issues not addressed in the MK2 revision? If so, provide examples.


- Vektar took forever to be released and even longer to get to waiting consumers who ordered it months prior.

I agree.


- Vektar's packaging was godawful.

Who gives a shit about packaging? Do you play with the cardboard box or with the game that came inside it? Honest question


- The exact same for Payback. Except worse, since it was plagued by massive bugs, crashes and missing features that should've been caught long before release.

I agree. Hopefully there'll be patches available in the near future, after all the game is quite costly and customers are entitled to fixes.


- The Breakout Board was an engineering disaster and often needs modification to work correctly; and a packaged version was promised, when, 6 months ago? Longer? 8? Where is it? All we have are RENDERS because GPH does not even have a prototype.

I'm impartial here, because I never planned to purchase the BOB in the first place. I know I'd have no use for it. At a certain point I'll buy the TV-out cables, and maybe an adapter, but that's as far as buying GP2X accessories will go for me.


- Pre-sale stick replacement with D-Pads was offered and touted numerous times. Yet no one is offering it. NO ONE. It is doubtful anyone ever will.

Those mods would be made by Ed or Craig themselves, manually, not on a production time. It would take quite some time to offer a full service so rapidly, I see this happening in a couple of months though. If there'll be a D-Pad kit available for purchase I may consider buying one, that would make the GP2X the ideal handheld for my needs.


- The famed 'new firmware' is a new skin and a more-than-doubled boot time. All the classic GP2X problems like crashing media players and a slow faulty GUI remain.

Nobody forces you to upgrade really, although I agree more work needs to be put in the firmware. Only time will tell how far the firmware will advance.


- All GPH has done to improve the GUI is make it fade from screen to screen.

They also fixed the flickering/artifacts when moving the cursor the first time. Other than that I'm fairly happy with the GUI as it is right now. I wish the Games icon would be the first one, not the Video one, and that the games in the Games menu would be displayed in the same manner files are displayed in Explorer, ie. more files on screen at a time. for the record, I disabled the fades, they get tiring after a while.


- GPH is squandering its money on worthless endeavors like breakout boxes and boards and contests that won't get it any income from the games produced, instead of fixing the problems with the units that everyone has (most notably and importantly the stick).

Can't argue here.


- The Value Pack that was just released with worthless accessories. It was clearly a ploy by GPH to get rid of piles of accessories no one would buy like handstraps and those godawful cases; with nothing USEFUL included like AC adapters or TV out cables.

Same, the Value pack screams gimmick to me. If that'll help GPH move more units though, I have no problem with it.


- Craig/GBAX's release of 'guaranteed-overclockable' GP2X units with higher prices that are unable to achieve their claimed speed, resulting in a scaling back of the units from 275 MHz to lower clockrates, combined with deceptive fraudulent postings on the site claiming they have a faster processor (and encouragement of the press to promote this misinformation)

I once again have to agree. :-\


- The fact that any unit that does NOT come 'guaranteed overclockable' is not overclockable to any appreciable level, guaranteeing nothing more than an increase in revenue per GP2X sale by Craig/GBAX

I personally (almost) never overclock my GP2X, because I use it mainly for homebrew. You do have a point however, with which I must agree.


- Increasing popularity, availability and ease of use of PSP emulation software and DS emulation software, hardware advancements in the DS Lite vs. the DS 'phat', 'slowdown' of the GP2X emulation scene.

What does that have to do with the GP2X? The GP2X is 100% homebrew-oriented, and as I said times and times again appeals to a different market than the DS and PSP. I would never spend extra money on special homebrew cards for the DS, or mess around with all kinds of dirty hacks to get things going on the PSP. I won't argue more about this because I know you won't ever give it up. Whatever, more power to you I suppose.


The list goes on and on.

Let it go on then, what's stopping you?


- Alex

 

[gaterooze]

Don't feed the troll, folks.

These issues have all been discussed countless times before in this forum, by actual GP2X users.

edit: as Alex illustrated, most of us agree with most of those points, but they have zero bearing on our actual enjoyment of the GP2X here and now.

 

[daclassicgamingmaster]

Don't feed the troll, folks.

These issues have all been discussed countless before in this forum, by actual GP2X users.

He's not a troll, he wants answers to these questions. They've been discussed, but never fully answered. I would like answers too. I wanted the BOB how many months back? Still nothing.

BTW: he is a "user" he just stopped developing for it

 

[krosfyah]

Alex, I think it's just [quote= not [quote name=

I'm tired too so I could be wrong.

EDIT: Er maybe not. I guess there's just a limit on the number of quotes per post?

 

[gaterooze]

He's not a troll, he wants answers to these questions.

No he doesn't. He has said he'll never use his GP2X again (someone else mentioned it was broken anyway). The sole reason he's been here the last few months is to troll, over and over and over. Have you not been paying attention?

 

[daclassicgamingmaster]

He's not a troll, he wants answers to these questions.

No he doesn't. He has said he'll never use his GP2X again (someone else mentioned it was broken anyway). The sole reason he's been here the last few months is to troll, over and over and over. Have you not been paying attention?

Ok, fine. I don't feel like arguing this point, so I'll say this and end it: I would like answers.

There?

 

[craigix]

Don't feed the timewarp troll.

 

[Alex.]

Don't feed the timewarp troll.

He does raise some good points though, although he does that for all the wrong reasons :-\

- Alex

 

[epitaph]

There's a difference between dissent and creative dissent. The latter's good for something, while the former is... well, when expressed informative in case you care for an individual's standpoint on something, but pretty worthless otherwise. As far as I know, the mods have been fairly tolerant regarding the latter. Yours is the former. Expressing it (over and over) serves no purpose.

- Existing GP2X hardware and firmware issues that have stood without repair for over 14 months.

You provide too little information. What modifications would you need in order to find the GP2X to your satisfaction, without scrapping the entire console?

Vektar took forever to be released and even longer to get to waiting consumers who ordered it months prior.

Vektar's packaging was godawful.

Some hideously bad planning on part of its publisher, I agree. I can't comment further on the issue as I didn't follow it that closely.

The exact same for Payback. Except worse, since it was plagued by massive bugs, crashes and missing features that should've been caught long before release.

Payback had some problems, but I think you're making this out to be way bigger than it actually is. It's still very playable, some of the bugs are awkward but they still don't prevent you from playing the game. Considering what the engine accomplishes on the GP2X hardware and at what frame rate I'd expect a few shortcomings as to its features.

Pre-sale stick replacement with D-Pads was offered and touted numerous times. Yet no one is offering it. NO ONE. It is doubtful anyone ever will.

This has never been "touted" by anyone representing any re-seller endorsed by GPH. If I remember correctly, some people within the community had plans to produce a d-pad replacement kit, but as they're most likely working on it on spare-time basis, so I wouldn't expect it to happen overnight. You're welcome to fund them if you want it that bad, of course.

The famed 'new firmware' is a new skin and a more-than-doubled boot time. All the classic GP2X problems like crashing media players and a slow faulty GUI remain.

The media player crashing has for most part been corrected by newer firmwares (I've never had it crash on me since 2.1.1, but I don't use it that much so I wouldn't know if this issue persists).

As for the boot time being redoubled, yes, I'll agree with you regarding that one -- it's pure idiocy on GPH's part. It's not like we can't change this ourselves though and that's one of the main points of the GP2X -- being able to customize it and its OS the way you want it to. It's not like the firmware's closed source and can't be modified easily (which is the case regarding other popular handhelds), so I consider this a non-issue. Same goes for the GUI. If you don't like it, replace it. If you don't like the replacements available, write something on your own. If there's nothing available you like, well... it's your problem. It's not like anyone's obligated to deliver whatever you might want (not even GPH) just because you're dissatisfied.

All GPH has done to improve the GUI is make it fade from screen to screen.

See above.

The Value Pack that was just released with worthless accessories. It was clearly a ploy by GPH to get rid of piles of accessories no one would buy like handstraps and those godawful cases; with nothing USEFUL included like AC adapters or TV out cables.

I'll let people speculate as to whether or not this is true (I prefer sticking to facts rather than baseless accusation), but regardless, what does this matter to you? If those are the practices they want to apply in doing business, then by all means, be my guests. That's what being a consumer is about, (1) you're not forced to buy just about anything a manufacturer spits out and (2) it's up to you to do research as to what deals would benefit you the most.

Craig/GBAX's release of 'guaranteed-overclockable' GP2X units with higher prices that are unable to achieve their claimed speed, resulting in a scaling back of the units from 275 MHz to lower clockrates, combined with deceptive fraudulent postings on the site claiming they have a faster processor (and encouragement of the press to promote this misinformation)

The 200 MHz rating issued for the processor is just what clock rate it's guaranteed by the manufacturer to be stable at, so imo there's nothing wrong labeling these units 275 MHz as it's basically the same concept -- they've been tested and found to be stable at 275 MHz, although they're set to 200 MHz.

Furthermore, while these practices may be dubious, why should you care? You know they're nothing but regular GP2Xes that have been tested to be stable at a higher clock frequency -- you're not forced to buy one and if people are willing to pay extra for units that have been tested, why not let them? If you find this practice foul, turn to some other re-seller. I doubt you'd skip getting, say, a PC component you want just because there are some shady retailers out there you don't like.

The fact that any unit that does NOT come 'guaranteed overclockable' is not overclockable to any appreciable level, guaranteeing nothing more than an increase in revenue per GP2X sale by Craig/GBAX

See above. You can still turn to another re-seller if you don't like GBAX.

Increasing popularity, availability and ease of use of PSP emulation software and DS emulation software, hardware advancements in the DS Lite vs. the DS 'phat', 'slowdown' of the GP2X emulation scene.

I posted a fraction of my thoughts regarding this in the other topic.

 

[imhotep]

Ditto to the above post.

 

[gaterooze]

Ok, fine. I don't feel like arguing this point

There's nothing to argue. In Epicenter's own words:

I do not use my GP2X for any purpose, including emulation or media playback.

http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?act=S...st&p=480643


dcgm: absolutely agree with the rest of your post, btw, as you are genuine in your intentions. I'd be very interested to know the new ETA of the commercial BoB too (last update was "by Xmas," so it's not too far past that). Craigix, ED? Any update?

 

[krosfyah]

Don't feed the timewarp troll.

He does raise some good points though, although he does that for all the wrong reasons :-\

- Alex

I think that's the main problem. People might be more accepting if he truly was unbiased but it's clearly just a grudge that he's going to hold forever. Other people seem to be able to voice similar opinions without eliciting this sort of response. There must be a reason for that.

 

[shinneri]

I'm quite fond of the GP2X...

 

[daclassicgamingmaster]

Ok, fine. I don't feel like arguing this point

There's nothing to argue. In Epicenter's own words:

I do not use my GP2X for any purpose, including emulation or media playback.

http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?act=S...st&p=480643

What are you getting at exactly? He doesn't use it...anymore. It was his choice to stop using it. Does that mean he's not allowed to have an opinion because he's no longer a "user"? Because that's what you're hinting at.

 

[epitaph]

What are you getting at exactly? He doesn't use it...anymore. It was his choice to stop using it. Does that mean he's not allowed to have an opinion because he's no longer a "user"? Because that's what you're hinting at.

No, it means nothing GPH ever does about the supposed problems he posted about will ever benefit him, meaning there's no valid point in him going on ad nauseum about his supposed disappointment.

 

[gaterooze]

What are you getting at exactly? He doesn't use it...anymore. It was his choice to stop using it. Does that mean he's not allowed to have an opinion because he's no longer a "user"? Because that's what you're hinting at.

<sigh> That post was back in November. My point is he is a persistent troll with a personal grudge against craigix in particular, and he only makes these posts in an effort to hurt the GP2X community. He does not honestly want answers or resolutions, he wants to make the device look bad. Simple as that.

To illustrate (there are dozens of his posts like these):

Everyone is a religious zealot to the GP2X and the miserably poor borderline-scam artist company that produced it, and the full-blown scam artist who promotes/sells it.

I've explained AGAIN and AGAIN in at least TEN THREADS what Craig did. There have been plenty of persons to complain about the GP2X or Craig and GPH's three ring circus of fraud, lies and broken hardware, but they generally told this forum to go fuck itself and left after being flamed excessively. I'm only here to discuss the XGP and occasionally take part in the Off-Topic forums as they are occasionally amusing. If I find a fun argument to take part in on the GP2X side of things, I will, but I generally avoid it because some people here don't know when to accept that not everyone loves their fucking GP2X, and that the best way to convert them is to pelt fanboyish rants at them for page upon page. If I'm a bitter little shell of a man for finding that to be fucking hilarious, pity me all you want or flame me all you want. I frankly don't care.

 

[Epicenter]

- Existing GP2X hardware and firmware issues that have stood without repair for over 14 months.

You provide too little information. What modifications would you need in order to find the GP2X to your satisfaction, without scrapping the entire console?

While I'll admit I'd have built the whole thing much differently and a different SoC would be required to rectify all the GP2X's issues, the machine would be tolerable with mostly changes to the other parts of the machine. A replaced stick, a screen with a better viewing angle, higher-quality plastic and overall build quality, repositioning of a few components, retooling of the internal PSU and PLL configuration to bolster the battery life a bit, and a couple other minor tweaks might be enough for me to consider the purchase of an 'MK3'. I'm not blindly biased here; I hope for change.

<sigh> That post was back in November. My point is he is a persistent troll with a personal grudge against craigix in particular, and he only makes these posts in an effort to hurt the GP2X community. He does not honestly want answers or resolutions, he wants to make the device look bad. Simple as that.

Wrong-- you're not in a very good position to guess my motivations. If I wanted to make the GP2X look bad, I have much better avenues than to argue with fanboys about why they shouldn't be satisfied with the unit. I hope for GPH, GBAX, EvilDragon and the rest of the gang to regain a sense of reality and correct the mistakes they've made, that they might turn the GP2X into something I'd take pleasure in owning again.